clutchless DOWNshifting

[RandyO]

Originally posted by SSearchVT
To add to Bigreds statement. Experience with a dirtbike on a MX track or in the woods also helps out in street riding. MX has been described as a controlled crash (sometimes uncontrolled). The skills developed there can very easily be carried over onto a streetbike when things go wrong.

I'll agree 100%

[TTD]

Originally posted by ancosta
If there is one thing I think the track makes worse for street riding is that once you see what you & the bike can do, it can be hard not to use it on the street. As I go into 2nd year riding, I figure I am at more odds for street accidents because my confidence is way up - but are my skills?

A crash or two at the track solved this problem for me.

Seriously... until I had my first tough crash at the track, I did tend to "use my new skills on the street" a bit much.

After tumbling into a tire wall at high speed... I decided I REALLY don't want to do that on the street. (where there probably will be something a whole lot harder to hit!)

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by RandyO
but I completely disagree that fast lap times on the track helps steet skills unless your idea of street riding is riding at illegal speeds

how the hell would you know? you just said you've never been to a trackday

anyone else gettin tired of listening to him go on about something he doesn't know about? (track time) or am i just back from a shitty night at work & am fet up w/ people in general?

[RandyO]

It's not like I havent been to the track and watched, I know what the corners look like, surface and surrounding bike traffic , in my view, I see more debris, more traffic and requires less technical skill than 1/10th of the way thru a street twisty like Deals Gap

To tell the f'n truth, not everyone, of course, to me, street riding is all about pace, and getting to where your going, to me, 12 turns in a repetative loop is nothing more than a nascar oval, I really don't get the attraction

Instead of taking a day or 2 off work to attend a track day, set off and ride 600-700 miles in a 14 hour day, you get to know your way around more than the track and all it costs you is the day off work and 5-6 tanks of gas.

my idea of a track day rider is someone who floggs ot down the straight then parks it in the corner

[RandyO]

nobody pissed in my cherrios to all you peeps who park it in the corner, where to fuck you learn that shit if it ain't at the track

[RandyO]

Seriously, compare what a track day is in time and effort to a day of street time , I know, some of you have to come up the night before and go to the exppence of renting a room, I won't even consider that, I live 20 min away from the track I can wake up at 6:am and be there @ 6:30

instead, I head north, on back road I know just cause I know the roads, ya stop babling , I end up stoping for breakfast at he little bakery on 113 in Stow, Me after that short break, I go thru evans notch, I am just riding and turning here or there. after grafton notch and rangeley I end up in eustis and from there everything became french, I was asked the oddest question at the border at the time, I don't remember what it was now. I think I was on my third tank of gas in St Georges and it was starting to get in afternoon, on way back, 201 FAST, high speed sweepers it's wide open engineered road to accomodate high speed trucking but mills are mostly out of business and there ain't really much trucking I admit that occasionally I am in the mood for a 90+mph pace and this is an occasional diesel spill, if you happen to slide, if you don't panic, just hold your balance and line its no differnt than ridn on dry pavement if yer smooth, in 50 or so miles of theis high speed, my radar detector never goes off, I meet maybe 2 trucks coming in my direction and maybe three other vehicles, and pass maybe 2 or 3 vehicles, I contunue south I member going thru Farmington Me, and end up home @ 7:30pm

What time you guys get home from track day

[OreoGaborio]

so who uses clutchless downshifting?

[Kham]

i have to side with Randy. he's right. you really need more than 1 or 2 track days to get anything down. it's fun for 1 day to not have to worry about some dumb cops.

Pete, i got the same kind of respons before. i find better to clutch on or off the street.

[Rye]

Pete, I may be wrong but I believe your bike is equipped with what Kawi calls a back torque limiter. Basically a slipper clutch. It's on my bike, an can be altered using differing plate thickness in your clutch pack.

Use your clutch on downshifts, but master the blip!

[TTD]

Originally posted by RandyO
Seriously, compare what a track day is in time and effort to a day of street time ,

To be honest.... I could care less if you choose to do a track day.

However, I am confused by the attitude that you seem to have that the track does not teach you anything of value for the street. (especially when numerous track day riders have expressed otherwise)

I am also confused that it seems to be a "this or that" situation for you.

I absolutely love going off and doing a 400 mile day of twisties on the wing.

I also love doing a day of track riding.

In both cases.... at the end of the day I am smiling, exhausted, and I feel like I improved as a rider.

I guess I'm saying.... "it's all good!"

[GMS1000]

Hey people!
I'd have to agree with Tony on this. For example, going in to turn one, I would Blip and bang two downshifts as soon as I applied the brakes then gradually let the clutch out. Using the engine braking to help me get slowed down. I rode for years on the street before getting on the track. I can tell you that I have tried every technigue of shifting. On any givin bike (car or truck) there are sweet spots in the rpm range where you can shift almost seamless (feels like an automatic transmission). Problem is, on the street, it's not always ideal (unless your driving an 18spd). Just my $.02.

peace
Gary

[hohum]

BEGIN BASTARDIZATION
OK, as far as the street vs. track bit goes, for people like me, who while riding for a bit (6 years) still aren't totally comfortable with precisely how far I can lean my bike over, or how quickly I can turn if I need to, or how fast I can bleed off speed, the track is a great learning experience, and during a track day (for a rider of my level of skill) I think I learned more than what I learn during an 800 mile day looping through VT/CA/NY/MA (due to the comfort of not having to worry about oncoming traffic, road debris, etc). I absolutely love both types of riding, but frankly, I think beyond a certain point on the track (I certainly am not there yet) the things you learn that are applicable to the street become fewer and further between. I mean, when you are taking turn 1 at full race speeds, how applicable is that to the street really (unless of course like randy says you like to go outrageously fast)? It seems to be one of those situations of diminishing returns.

END BASTARDIZATION

[TTD]

Originally posted by hohum
BEGIN BASTARDIZATION
It seems to be one of those situations of diminishing returns.

END BASTARDIZATION

I agree... to a point.

Yes, one you have the skills, additional track riding won't help your street riding... if you are able to keep those skills sharp without riding on the track.

In other words, I know my skill level has decreased now that I've been off the track for a long time.

[OreoGaborio]

agree 100% tony... i can tell you right now that eventually my riding skills will come to a plateau no matter what unless I completely throw myself into motorcycling 100%, spend alot of money, do it as a career or something like that.

seems off topic, but take for example my own personal musical ability... i know how to play 4-5 instruments & i'm not bad, but at this point my skills won't get any better unless i start spending some serious time honing them, taking lessons again & learning new techniques. same idea w/ any other skill, from motorcycling to underwater basketweaving

[Rye]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
seems off topic, but take for example my own personal musical ability... i know how to play 4-5 instruments

Skin flute doesn't count!

[OreoGaborio]

oh... well in that case i only know how to play 4-5 instruments

[Marc R]

So, I gave it a try. I think I'm jumping into the clutchless downshift camp. It's so quick, it'll free up some mental cycles entering a corner on the track. Mechanically, it didn't sound like abuse; what could possibly go wrong?

[cdovego]

My favorite aspect of the ktm is kicking down two gears flowing into t3 with no clutch thanks to the slipper. I love it and find myself trying to do the same on other bikes that can't. It definitely saves time.

[carsick]

Thread from the dead! Marc, what are you riding that this works well on?

[xxaarraa]

My favorite aspect of the ktm is kicking down two gears flowing into t3 with no clutch thanks to the slipper. I love it and find myself trying to do the same on other bikes that can't. It definitely saves time.

How does a slipper clutch have anything to do with clutchless downshifting? Slipper does exactly that - it slips AFTER a gear has been engaged so the rider doesn't have to match wheel speed to rpms and can bang out downshifts earlier without rev matching. Whether you downshift with clutch engaged or disengaged doesn't have any bearing on whether you have a slipper. Slipper works AFTER the shifting is done.

Thoughts?

[jasnmar]

How do you define "works well"?

I suck at shifting. It's much easier for me to deal with the rear getting out of sorts (when the rear should be out of sorts and in the air) on the brakes than it is for me to have to grab the clutch when I'm out of position to do that.

I'm a complete idiot, but *stomp* was much easier than what I'm trying to do now.

[a13x]

I was about to post "Man NESR, some things never change" then noticed this thread is from 2005, so that explains it.

heh. Funny stuff.

[makct04]

I can't vouch for the OP's riding abilities as he may still be a no0b asking silly questions on the interwebs but I approve of his choice in Bourbons.

[maxim_X]

How does a slipper clutch have anything to do with clutchless downshifting?

Thoughts?

Where do rainbows come from? What makes the posi-track on a Plymouth work? Nobody knows it just works. The same goes for a slipper clutch, stomp and it's good.

[Marc R]

Thread from the dead! Marc, what are you riding that this works well on?

Doug, tested on a Hypermotard 821 cc. Next time at the track, we'll see if the 749 makes the same approving sounds.