[benVFR]

BigRed,

I honestly can't do it at work but for every statistic in the NCPA paper you posted the DOJ database I linked before disproves and/or shows that NCPA is manipulating the statistics. Those statistics can be manipulated for either side.

It's a lot of work, if you're not willing to look at data yourself rather then believe a thinktank I may go through the numbers at home tonight.

Basically almost all states have "easy" gunlaws. There are two few with strict gun laws (5-6 at most?) to really say anything about gun control. But it doesn't prove lots of guns reduces crime.

For the current data only 2 of the 15 highest murder states have "strict" gun control laws.

In the 15 states with the lowest murder rates 2 have "strict" gun laws.

For example a quick one. NCPA said Hawaii had huge murder growth after they banned laws. They were looking at the 2 years after the ban. In the many years since Hawaii became extremely safe, it's in the top 5 for lowest murder rates now and has been for a long time.

In each and every statistic in that paper they looked at a very small time window, and if you look at a larger window their argument no longer looks true.

Several of them they don't even quote years, so there is no way to check, if you check based on current data their numbers don't match up. For example the one about NYC, Chicago, DC, and Detroit is simply not true. The entire states those cities are in added up do not make up 20% of the murders in the country, so it's impossible for the cities to contain 20% of the murders. (Note that "fact" has no cite and no year)

Even look through their cites.. it's just a web of think tank position papers citing each other. No hard data except for the ones where they cite the exact same DOJ database I've been looking at.