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Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

  1. #1
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)


    I picked up a quad from hobbs for a neighbor's kid... it came with no ignition switch (and im trying to save $60 for a new one).

    I have:

    Red 12+ V

    Orange ??? (says .125 V from ground or red)

    Black w/Green stripe Ground

    Black w/White stripe Ground


    any suggestions?

    starter works fine when jumed straight to the battery.


    Thanks!

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  2. #2
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    What kind of quad is it?

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  3. #3
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    If I were doing this I'd cross the orange and red real quick just to see what happens.....but that's just me....after that I'd spend the 60 bux for a new switch....again, that's just me.

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  4. #4
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    its a suzuki.

    bergs - that = melted wires (hot to ground)

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  5. #5
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Random thoughts:

    The two "ground" wires are preplexing, there's no need to have even one ground wire at the switch (assuming it does all the switching at +12V). The ignition switch on my old Suzuki quad also turned on the lights and lets assume yours does too. So you need one 12 volt source (seems to be red), one wire to go to the ignition, and one wire to go to the lights. Probably need one wire to go to the starter switch (through a neutral safety switch) too, so there's all the wires accounted for. I think your "ground" wires are loads.

    On a GSXR igntion switch, red is +12V, orange with red stripe goes to the ignition, and black with white stripe goes to the headlight.

    Stuff to try:

    Black with white is pretty common for Suziki to use on headlights, check continuity between the black/white wire and the headlight wires. That can eliminate one wire.

    Put the thing in neutral and measure continuity from the black/green to the thin wires on starter relay, with the starter button held in. I bet you'll find continuity on one of them, only when the starter button is pressed.

    That leaves the orange wire. Odds are good it's to the ECU, however, some quads have a CDI igntion system with a magneto, and on those, there is no ECU. I'm thinking that a quad with a battery and a starter won't have CDI ignition, but it's a guess. Look for a black box with wires connected marked "CDI" or "IGNITER". You can try tacing continuity to it from the orange wire.

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    Last edited by stoinkythepig; 02-22-09 at 09:27 AM.

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    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    k, i found a bad relay (check this out - a relay from my gsxr collection worked!)- bike tries to start now (with orange and red ignition switch wires connected).

    I also twisted the 2 black wires together.

    No spark. Have power on 2 of the 4 wires going to the CDI box, nothing across the 2 wires coming out of the cdi box (into the ignition coil).

    may have to do with me crossing the black wires... I want to avoid buying a cdi box I dont need.

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  7. #7
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Hmmm... Try leaving the two black wires disconnected and see if you get spark. On some simple ignition systems, the "on" position opens a circuit.

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  8. #8
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Any updates?

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  9. #9
    Senior Member FTMS's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    On a lot of the quads the blk/wht wire is the safety switch circuit. It will either need to go to ground to work (normally closed circuit) or remain ungrounded (normally open circuit).

    What is the machine? I have a bunch of manuals and might have a wiring diagram for it.

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  10. #10
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Kitt,

    If you are saying that when you touch the red and orange that the starter motor starts to spin, that is a good thing. That would mean that orange is your starter wire and the red is your constant power.

    From here it gets tricky, your ignition lead will test as ground when not powered on but when you apply power to it will work as ignition should. I think it is something to do with seeing ground from/through the coil. Is there anyway you can trace either of the other two wires to their destination? I would guess that one of them, if not both, will terminate at the postive terminal of the ignition coil/coils.

    One other question, what are the gauges of the wires in question. If they are all relatively thick then what I have said above should ring true. If some are really thin then possibly, as someone above mentioned, they may be used as a kill circuit of some sort.

    Hope that helps a little,

    Joel

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    Last edited by tls25rs; 02-25-09 at 08:51 AM.

  11. #11
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    hey guys, sorry for the lame-ass time delay - been busy this week.

    It's a 2005 Suzuki LT80 (wtf, I always thought these things were 4 stroke with a cent. clutch).

    Anyway, Joel - the red and orange are connected right now, and yes - that allows the starter to get power (now that the relay is replaced). The two black/striped wires are relatively thin (maybe 18 ga) so I think the suggestion on here is accurate. When I get my ass to the garage next, I was going to try it with them uncrossed, and also with each of them grounded, then both of them grounded.

    FTMS - If you have a wiring diagram or can shed light on the black wires, im all ears!

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  12. #12
    Senior Member FTMS's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    I will take a look for a diagram. The other thing with those machines is there is a saftey switch on the foot brake that won't let it start if you are not standing on it or have the park brake set.

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  13. #13
    Senior Member FTMS's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    I am not sure what years this covers but try it. I will see if I can find any other floating around.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -suzuki-lt80-wiring-diagram-jpg  

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  14. #14
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Thanks - looks like B/w and B/y crossed (like it is now) is the same as "engine off" on the kill switch.

    I'll disconnect those, then it looks like b/w is a ground, and probably doesn't need to be grounded.

    B/y being grounded will essentially create the "engine off" effect again.

    (am i right?)

    cool - i'll disconnect b/w & b/y and she should start right up.

    Hobbs gave this little guy a bitchin' deal - but I didn't want to give it to them until it ran (and passed the wheelie test)

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  15. #15
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    FTMS - I realized the safety switch needed to be engaged (and I didn't disable it, since you'd be starting it in gear with no e-brake). It looks to be the same as my gsxr kickstand switches, but yes - it's in place and the "e-brake" was on when trying. Thanks.

    There's also some strange reset switch onder right rear fender that pops out when you get surges - it was still depressed so I think that's fine.

    I'm also happy to see the amp size documented in the diagram... It had a 10 amp and seemed to be too big since during testing some of the wires got warm fast, and no damage to the fuse.

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  16. #16
    Senior Member FTMS's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    I see people replacing the 5amp fuse a lot with a 10amp. I think when the starter starts getting worn it starts drawing more amps and blows the 5amp easily. The 5amp is barley big enough for the system. I have put a 7amp in after checking draw with a meter and felt comfortable with that.

    Wheelie test, you might want body armor for that one. Those little things can be quite a handful. They are fast. I built one for a friend of mine kid to race. Port and polished head, piped, clutched, carb bored, you cab go nuts with them.

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    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTMS View Post
    I see people replacing the 5amp fuse a lot with a 10amp. I think when the starter starts getting worn it starts drawing more amps and blows the 5amp easily. The 5amp is barley big enough for the system. I have put a 7amp in after checking draw with a meter and felt comfortable with that.

    Wheelie test, you might want body armor for that one. Those little things can be quite a handful. They are fast. I built one for a friend of mine kid to race. Port and polished head, piped, clutched, carb bored, you cab go nuts with them.
    "you always cover the rear brake - yutughhhh"

    haha, I was a master (in my own mind) of stunts on my 80cc pitquads... this 2 smoker may be a little touchy though.

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  18. #18
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Ignition bypass (dirtbike and atv)


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