Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Results 1 to 19 of 19

Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

  1. #1
    Rockin' the West Coast... Femmekat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,738

    Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs


    I was wondering, in general, what the good people of NESR think about the pros/cons of dual vs. single elctrode spark plugs.... I already got my replacements for the R6 and am not seeking advice for my particular application, but was curious generally speaking what people have learned about the science/benefits/differences between these two types of spark plugs. I've read a million and one theories about combustion, displacement, etc. between these two types but no resources seemed particularly reputable....

    Discuss... "E" vs. "EK"

    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    I dunno, you dress too fashionably to be a communist
    LRRS Novice #629
    I ride/drive:
    2000 Yamaha R6
    1996 F-350 4x4 diesel truck
    and anything else with serious hp

  2. #2
    daideó Rambunctous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Worcester
    Posts
    4,364

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.

    0 Not allowed!
    You cannot be for big government, big taxes, and big bureaucracy and still be for the little guy.

  3. #3
    Little drummer boy 13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Auburn, NH
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,225

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.
    Bingo. Snake oil. 2 electrodes can't outsmart electricity. I guess if a fuel/air mixture is more dense next to one electrode as opposed to the other, enough to cause a substantial difference in resistance, maybe there will be an advantage. But I still call BS.

    0 Not allowed!

    One of the former LRRS #13's

    http://www.facebook.com/ChrisWatt762

    JT42

  4. #4
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    62
    Posts
    9,758

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.
    I agree, the only advantage I can see is that they would last longer, as the "least resistant" tip errodes, the other tip would take over

    I've tried many plugs, my butt dyno can't tell the difference

    the only thing I do know, fresh plugs make your starter happy in cold weather

    0 Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject
    Gary Johnson 2012


    http://gbhsurvey.com/

  5. #5
    Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.337 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

    Dyno them and get your answer. I'm sure they don't waste their money on expensive spark plugs in ama racing. They probably buy the cheapies.

    0 Not allowed!
    Yawn

  6. #6
    Lifer richw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baltic,CT
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,523

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    However a Iridium Fine Wire electrode does cause the electric fields to be condensed around the thin point. The higher denser potential then can have the spark jump more reliably. The lowered spark requirement also helps reduce carbon tracking at the insulator.

    Original efficiency tests allegedly showed almost a 2% advantage which was attributed to either miss firings or delayed firing in conventional designed plugs

    Additionally these plugs have a greatly extended life with near 100,000 mile lives in cars.
    My subaru got 110 and the kid who owns it now seems to be still going there is 80 k on them in my truck

    Price is as low as $8 but usually about 12

    0 Not allowed!
    Glen Beck is John the Baptist

  7. #7
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raymond NH
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,916

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    My bike came from the factory with dual electrode plugs. I cannot imagine why Kawasaki would spend the dough if there was no good reason for them. I have no clue what the reason is though.

    0 Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Waterbury, VT
    Age
    45
    Posts
    2,145

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    There's a little advantage to having the center electrode exposed to the combustion chamber - extremely little in a street application.

    0 Not allowed!
    SSearchVT

    For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction - and sometimes a scar...

  9. #9
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,224

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by 7.62gigawatts View Post
    Bingo. Snake oil. 2 electrodes can't outsmart electricity. I guess if a fuel/air mixture is more dense next to one electrode as opposed to the other, enough to cause a substantial difference in resistance, maybe there will be an advantage. But I still call BS.
    wrong.
    having 2 electrodes lengthens the usable life of the plug, because as one erodes (and it does happen) the gap grows, and the spark jumps to the other electrode.

    of course in the case of the 4 electrode plug, all the electrodes apparently shroud the spark too much or something.. never heard a positive review of them.

    personally i am a big fan or iridium s due to their tendency to not erode any where near as fast as other materials

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  10. #10
    What? Is that it? Currently's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ooltewah, TN
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,982

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

    Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

    Get stranded in the woods.

    Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

    Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

    After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

    Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

    That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".

    0 Not allowed!
    If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride would do.

  11. #11
    Lifer richw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baltic,CT
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,523

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Heat range ?

    Though I have never had them in a 2 stroke

    0 Not allowed!
    Glen Beck is John the Baptist

  12. #12
    Lifer Kenn157's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Salisbury Beach, MA
    Age
    56
    Posts
    5,504

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    The Gladius has two iridium plugs per cylinder. But that's the way it came. Put over 7K on them w/o a hitch.

    0 Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.337 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

    Quote Originally Posted by Currently
    Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

    Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

    Get stranded in the woods.

    Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

    Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

    After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

    Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

    That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".
    I'd say you got an education in performance parts and what application not to use them in.

    0 Not allowed!
    Yawn

  14. #14
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    1,874

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    My experience has been very similar in two stroke applications. The fine wire electrodes foul amazingly quickly.
    They may last longer in clean burning four stroke applications, compared to standard versions, but they do not like burning two stroke oils running in a street/trail environment.
    As far as multi-electrode plugs go, I am not confident that they succeed in doing anything but emptying my wallet faster, so I do not buy them.
    Dual plug heads, though, seem to be a better approach for large bore motors.
    BTW - Champion quality seems to be very inferior to NGK's, just by casual observation. The ceramic insulators on the Champion plugs look like they are very far of center, and sometimes the even look oval shaped, compared to the NGK's.

    0 Not allowed!

  15. #15
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,224

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Currently View Post
    Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

    Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

    Get stranded in the woods.

    Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

    Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

    After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

    Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

    That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".
    Conversely, when i installed them in my '02 Triumph Daytona, they worked as advertised, improving throttle response and idle quality.
    i suspect yours is an application for which they are not best suited..

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  16. #16
    What? Is that it? Currently's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ooltewah, TN
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,982

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.337 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)



    I'd say you got an education in performance parts and what application not to use them in.
    Well, when I went to the dealer and asked him for a spark plug for my bike, that is what he handed me after I told him year and make of my bike.

    0 Not allowed!
    If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride would do.

  17. #17

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Currently View Post
    Well, when I went to the dealer and asked him for a spark plug for my bike, that is what he handed me after I told him year and make of my bike.
    Yeah, you got misled. He wanted to sell you the more expensive part. Damn dealers.

    0 Not allowed!
    Yawn

  18. #18
    Rockin' the West Coast... Femmekat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,738

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I agree, the only advantage I can see is that they would last longer, as the "least resistant" tip errodes, the other tip would take over

    I've tried many plugs, my butt dyno can't tell the difference

    the only thing I do know, fresh plugs make your starter happy in cold weather
    This is my understanding of the dual electrode plugs as well....

    Quote Originally Posted by Currently View Post
    Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

    iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.
    I looked into the iridiums for my bike which are "all the rage" but have been learning that first gen R6's are very finicky about being messed with...and came to the conclusion that iridiums for this particular bike would not be the best, and are too hot a plug, foul easier, don't like 30% or less throttle, etc. It seems that the conventional wisdom is to go to too cold a plug if anything, not too hot a plug....

    The plugs I pulled out are NGK CR10EK's, and the bike seemed happy with them so that's what I got to replace, owners manual says either "E" or "EK". I'd rather have them work well for my application and change them every year, than get something that might last longer but makes my bike cranky, or fouls....

    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    I dunno, you dress too fashionably to be a communist
    LRRS Novice #629
    I ride/drive:
    2000 Yamaha R6
    1996 F-350 4x4 diesel truck
    and anything else with serious hp

  19. #19
    phuct.
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Is it not obvious?
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,253

    Re: Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs


    that "K" at the end is a dual electrode plug IIRC.

    I ran them in my off-road 4strokes just because they fouled less when I was tiptoeing around in the mucky crap. Once the bike was nicely broken in it didn't matter much and plugs stopped fouling. The K's did it much less though.

    I rock iridium in everything except 2-strokes (which I don't own) now.

    0 Not allowed!
    My 2 vices, not necessarily in order:
    www.gpsdiscussion.com
    motorcycleaddicts.org

Similar Threads

  1. changing spark plugs?
    By jesse_k in forum Bike Maintenance
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-28-11, 02:15 PM
  2. Spark Plugs
    By akira700 in forum Bike Maintenance
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-10-08, 08:18 AM
  3. Cleaning Spark Plugs
    By greenmonster in forum Bike Maintenance
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-14-08, 06:40 PM
  4. Spark plugs exploded, why?
    By Honclfibr in forum Bike Maintenance
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 04-07-04, 12:07 PM
  5. spark plugs
    By oreo_n2 in forum General Bike Related
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-14-03, 07:32 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •