New V Strom XT or ???

[TheJRM]

New member/first post.

I've been riding for a quite a while and currently have a couple of bikes in the stable: A highly modded CRF250L (with a set of 17/19 Warp9 wheels & Shinko 705s) and my daily commuter: 2013 CB500X that I bought new, 2 years ago.

The X has been a great machine, and I'm keeping it. The CRF250L is a hoot, and I love bombing around on it both on and off road (also keeping it).

I've owned bigger, badder Dual sport machines in the past, but the CB500X/CRF250L combo covers *just* about all of the bases, save one, and this is where the V Strom XT may or may not come in.

I took my X out for a little hammer session today and proceeded to hit up as many of the pot hole strewn dirt roads I could find here on the North Shore. With my modded CRF250L, I rip those roads at 60+ MPH and am planted at all times, thanks to the race tech suspension and shinko 705s. RT suspension soaks up the ruts, washboard and pot holes with ease.

The X... not so much. Speed needs to be kept to 40 mph or below and the suspension is being taxed fully by every rut and mild pot hole hit at moderate speeds. It is a road bike dressed up in semi-adv clothing, however, so I'm neither disappointed or surprised by the bike's lack luster performance in these conditions. Traction wise, the bike does just fine, however (dry conditions), so that's a plus, and the ABS can't be beat - lock it up at all speeds, on the asphalt or dirt, and you're holding your line without fail.

The X has proven to be an agile, fuel efficient and fairly comfortable machine. I am going to slap a seat concepts Rally Tall seat on her though, as the stock seat is just too low for my knee's liking. It'll be the perfect bike for commuting and shorter rides around the area, but it still lacks the necessary protection, HP (engine is working a little too hard for my liking @ 75 - 80 MPH) handling & suspension that I'd like in an ADV touring machine.

For the record: I have zero illusions of riding a 430+ road bike off road. That's what I use my CRF250L for (and it's already heavy enough at just over 300 lbs. - modded). That being said, I'm looking for a bike that I could load up, sometimes 2 up, with camping gear, and ride all over the North East, possibly further, without having to tip toe through every rough dirt or gravel road I come upon in my travels.

For those of you who own V Stroms, how would you rate the bike's ability to ride dirt and gravel roads aggressively? I don't expect that I'll be able to push the bike as hard as my CRF250L in rough road conditions, of course (although it would be nice), but I'm looking for a machine that can take on rut, pot hole and washboard strewn roads (dirt, gravel & asphalt) and hold it's own... while loaded up.

I'm also looking for a bike that offers more power and wind protection on the highway. I'm 175 - 180 lbs, and my X let's me know it's not happy to pull much over 80 mph on my daily commute to work; she'll go faster of course, but the engine is pushing 8,000+ RPMs to get there (red line is 9k, topping out @ 10.5k).

Based on preliminary research, it sounds like I *might* need to upgrade suspension and screen in order to get what I'm after with the Strom?

I'm pretty much sold on Japanese bikes thanks to their bulletproof reliability (my #1 priority when choosing a bike), so I'm not all that interested in the Euro offerings (although they most certainly look cool). As far as styling is concerned, I think that the Strom is uh... pretty fugly looking, but I'm more than willing to over look that fact if she's the best tool for the job, especially given how relatively cheap they are new and/or used.

Any and all feedback is appreciated. Would love to hear what others have to say about the Strom, as it's my leading contender at the moment (XT version in particular).

p.s. Another forum member had posted about the Rally Raid CB500X kit that recently came out. I've been following that thread pretty closely on ADV rider, and have thought about the conversion myself, but I would HIGHLY prefer to not run tubed wheels on a road/dirt road based ADV touring machine, and feel like I need a little more wind protection and HP than my X provides for the type of riding my future bike will be pressed into service for.

[Garandman]

Budget limit?

The new gen are supposed to be better and people have taken V-Stroms everywhere. But I'd be surprised if the stock suspension is much better than the Honda. The Elka rear shock and emulators transformed my 2009: That's $1,500 to $1,800. There are many tire choices, I liked the Tourance.

Suspension travel is 5.9" front anf 6.3" rear. Your Honda is 5.5" / 4.3".

Lengthy thread on Stromtrooper: how bad is v-strom 650 xt suspension? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums

I'd think there are more ar Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan | Adventure Rider

[TheJRM]

Budget limit?

The new gen are supposed to be better and people have taken V-Stroms everywhere. But I'd be surprised if the stock suspension is much better than the Honda. The Elka rear shock and emulators transformed my 2009: That's $1,500 to $1,800. There are many tire choices, I liked the Tourance.

Suspension travel is 5.9" front anf 6.3" rear. Your Honda is 5.5" / 4.3".

Lengthy thread on Stromtrooper: how bad is v-strom 650 xt suspension? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums

I'd think there are more ar Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan | Adventure Rider

Thanks for the feedback! As suspected, sounds like the suspension would have to be addressed out of the gates. I'm not looking for a bike that I have to baby when the going gets rough, and am getting a little tired of modding my bikes. Would prefer to buy something that's pretty much where I need it to be out of the gates. The search continues...

[Garandman]

By stating "No Eurotrash need apply" you eliminated the F series BMW twins, which are the most popular bikes in the category in most of the world. Suspension travel front / rear is 9.1 / 8.5 inches. They had teething problems for sure but they are well sorted out, have a three year warranty, and the cost difference is a lot less than it used to be: starting price is $12,190 with ABS. The F700GS is $9,990.

Max BMW in Hampton, NH has a dirt course behind the shop. They encourage test rides. I have no dog in the hunt but right now you are looking for a Unicorn, unless you want to consider the Super Tenere', which is a 575 lb shaft drive bike.

The only thing I've broken on my Triumph is a Japanese-made rear brake light switch. Knock wood.

[Chippertheripper]

Any bike is going to require suspension work out of the gates to do what you want. The closest thing out the box doesn't currently come from Japan. I think the closest Japanese offering is forthcoming in the new Africa twin.

If you wanna jam down rough/dirt/gravel roads, you need travel length. If you want to put-put along, you can use whatever. Two-up is another curveball, but most of the bigger touring/adv bike give you the hydraulic preload for luggage/passengers.

(Ps: I saw a flyer at event yesterday for an 08 990adv with 18k and luggage for 7500. Not Japanese, but way less money than a new steed)

[nhbubba]

For those of you who own V Stroms, how would you rate the bike's ability to ride dirt and gravel roads aggressively? I don't expect that I'll be able to push the bike as hard as my CRF250L in rough road conditions, of course (although it would be nice), but I'm looking for a machine that can take on rut, pot hole and washboard strewn roads (dirt, gravel & asphalt) and hold it's own... while loaded up.

This is pretty much the one place the V-Strom excels. I'll say it over and over and over again, I think the mild ADV-styled bikes like the V-Strom are the bike to have for New England riding. Does it all from highway to shitty pavement to mild dirt and back again.

If budget is a concern, I'd consider passing on a new XT and go for a used non-XT. The alloy wheels really aren't much of a problem for the use-case you describe. V-Stroms don't hold their value that well and you can probably shave a grand or two off the price and come away with something very clean and pre-farkled. A few grand is enough to upgrade the suspension and get a setup that is arguably better than the euro offerings and tailored to you specifically.

I've owned an '11 DL650 ABS since the summer of '11. I bought my bike barely used. I have 46k miles on it and have ridden it from here to North Carolina and back.

Couple problems with the V-Strom:
- Suspension sucks out of the box. Minimum required upgrade is a properly sized set of fork springs ($100) plus fresh oil ($20). Also recommend RT emulators ($150) and eventually splurge for an aftermarket, 3-way adjustable rear shock ($1200)
- The brakes are not the best. Upgrade the pads ($80) and bleed annually. Also remember this is a relatively budget bike. Remember this when you wick it up and start railing on those brakes
- Charging circuit known to be week, have issues. Pushing lots of heated gear and accessories is a problem for this bike. Fried stators and R/R are not common, but not unheard of. (I've burned a stator.)
- The 650 will not impress the chicks. It's only 60-something HP. Enough for 99% of us 99% of the time, but not a super bike.
- Exhaust note is lackluster. Can be addressed with expensive aftermarket exhaust.
- Bike is heavy. ~500 lbs is a handful "off road". Although the weight is fairly well balanced and the bike handles well on road.

My V-Strom lives for potholes. I will ride any maintained public road in New England on that thing and a few un-maintained. From dirt to smooth asphalt. Does it all with ease. I've spent the last 2 years trying to find something "better" and have come up short so far.

Would prefer to buy something that's pretty much where I need it to be out of the gates. The search continues...

Good luck with that. If you find such a thing, message me. I'll be there with my checkbook as soon as I can.

[nhbubba]

(Ps: I saw a flyer at event yesterday for an 08 990adv with 18k and luggage for 7500. Not Japanese, but way less money than a new steed)

"Way less" is relative. Brand new 2016 DL650XT retails for $8500. Friggin' bikes are compelling!

[Chippertheripper]

"Way less" is relative. Brand new 2016 DL650XT retails for $8500. Friggin' bikes are compelling!

Then add racks and baggage on top of that.
Here's an honest question: which suspension is better? The stock 990 or the modded dl?
I've never spent any time with a dl, so I really have no frame of reference.

[nhbubba]

I'm inclined to say the modified DL. It honestly does most of what I ask of it. I'm not enough of an expert to know for sure.

You should take the DL piggie for a whirl sometime. Although the suspension is setup for my fat-ass. Likely on the oversprung side for you.
Also at 46k miles, I'm thinking she's due for a refresh.

The downside is there is no external adjustability on the forks. So if you like to twiddle on the go, that's kind of a show stopper.
And emulators-while adjustable-are a pain in the ass to dial in.

990 + upgrades is surely better. But with cartridges.. are you getting away with a fork upgrade for <$250??

Side story: This thread made me look at the 'strom XT again. I dig it. Looks like they took off all the OE "adventure" pack accessories for '16 and slashed the price $2k. You still get the cool wire tubeless wheels. I also believe my Elka would swap right over. The fork springs might too. Would leave me out $150 for another set of emulators.
Although the adventure pack goodies (crash guard, traxx cases, mounts, etc) are probably worth $2k if you don't have this crap already.

[TheJRM]

Perhaps a trip up to Max BMW is in order. My one concern with the F800GS is the fact that you're forced to run tubed tires. I've plugged the rear tire on my CB500X once so far, and it made a flat tire on the way home from work a non-issue. I was back on the road in 5 min. Nice to be able to ride out a slow leak as well; I only realized the tire was super low when handling became an issue on the turns. I *think* it's possible to convert the f800's wheel set over to tubeless, but I'll have to look into it.

[nhbubba]

Yeah, I have reservations about tubed tires on a bigtime road-bike too. Same objections applies to the Tiger 800 XC/XCx. All that money and you still don't get tubeless wheels. Another point for the ol' DL.

My read is the new Africa Twin (CRF1000L) will not be tubeless either.

[Garandman]

Any bike is going to require suspension work out of the gates to do what you want. The closest thing out the box doesn't currently come from Japan. I think the closest Japanese offering is forthcoming in the new Africa twin.

If you wanna jam down rough/dirt/gravel roads, you need travel length. If you want to put-put along, you can use whatever. //

Agree. I had an 05 V-Strom and decided to upgrade. Rode a friend's R1200GS and told him, "Not a fan of the motor but the suspension is great." He'd upgraded to Ohlins.

I would up buying an 09 V-Strom and upgrading the springs and suspension, and upgraded the SV650 and Tiger 1050 as well. I think you have to get close to $20K before a bike has hardware than can stay.

[TheJRM]

Agree. I had an 05 V-Strom and decided to upgrade. Rode a friend's R1200GS and told him, "Not a fan of the motor but the suspension is great." He'd upgraded to Ohlins.

I would up buying an 09 V-Strom and upgrading the springs and suspension, and upgraded the SV650 and Tiger 1050 as well. I think you have to get close to $20K before a bike has hardware than can stay.

Unless you build up one of these. But there goes highway cruising power, wind protection, etc. Would certainly handle the rough stuff 100 x better than any F800GS though and end up costing 1/2 as much up front and a good $600 - $700/year in additional expenses (insurance, taxes etc.).

[Chippertheripper]

Is a tubeliss system viable with a "street" tire?
Tubes/tubeless is not an issue for me. Zero fucks given on that one.

[markbvt]

Spoked wheels are never tubeless unless you move up to one of the big, expensive Euro bikes. That said, quite a few people have sealed the rear rim on their Tiger 800 XC and are running it tubeless. Seems to work well, and it's easy to do. The common wisdom is to leave the 21" front wheel alone because flats in those are much less common, a lot of 21" tires are not tubeless-rated, and apparently it's much more difficult to seal that skinny wheel effectively.

Now, to the bike. By automatically disqualifying European bikes, you're doing yourself a disservice, and giving in to stupid stereotypes that don't really apply anymore. I would strongly recommend looking at a Tiger 800 (either roadie/XR or XC/XCx; either one would work for your purposes, though I would recommend the XC/XCx for its added versatility and better suspension). The Tiger 800 has been well known as an outstanding, extremely reliable motorcycle. I've put over 76,000 miles on mine with zero problems. (Funnily enough, the only bike I have had reliability problems with is my Honda.)

For what it's worth, the F800GS is known to have some quality control issues. BMW's reliability is not what it once was. But if you get a good one, it'll go forever.

Prior to getting the Tiger, I put 40,000 miles on a V-Strom 650. Objectively speaking, it was a good motorcycle; when I got the Tiger, I sold the Strom to my dad. I've ridden it a number of times in the meantime when visiting the parents, and every time, I'm shocked at how primitive it feels compared to the Tiger. The suspension is crude and the brakes are appalling. I don't miss it at all. The only things the Strom has going for it are that motor (which Suzuki really should put in a lighter-weight, much more dirt-oriented bike to destroy Kawasaki's KLR650 market) and the fuel range.

To be honest, since you've got the CB500X and plan to keep it, buying the Strom would be pointless. It's really not much of a step up. You'd be much better off picking up a lightly used Tiger 800. Or even just putting some suspension upgrades on the X -- maybe even the full Rally Raid kit that turns it into a proper adventure bike.

--mark

[TheJRM]

To be honest, since you've got the CB500X and plan to keep it, buying the Strom would be pointless. It's really not much of a step up. You'd be much better off picking up a lightly used Tiger 800. Or even just putting some suspension upgrades on the X -- maybe even the full Rally Raid kit that turns it into a proper adventure bike.

--mark[/QUOTE]

I've thought about that. In the end, that might be the best bet. Seems like the Strom isn't going to offer me much more than my X does, and will be a lot less agile to boot. Despite its suspension short comings, the X is very easy to handle at speed on the rough stuff. With a 17/19 combo, 50/50 tires and 7" of high quality suspension travel up front and back, perhaps it really would be the best bike for the intended mission. I could upgrade the screen and gain a little extra wind protection, throw a skid plate on, and be good to go. The frame is VERY beefy and carries a load pretty well. I've ridden with my wife on the back and was surprised by how little the bike slowed down. It's working a little hard @ 80+ mph, but then again, I don't like the highway much anyway...

[nhbubba]

Spoked wheels are never tubeless unless you move up to one of the big, expensive Euro bikes.

Or an $8500 V-Strom 650 XT.

[AimlessMoto]

I think I'll buy one of these in 2 or 3 years when they're $5000 or so. Lol.

[markbvt]

Spoked wheels are never tubeless unless you move up to one of the big, expensive Euro bikes.

Or an $8500 V-Strom 650 XT.

Sorry, should have specified traditional spoked wheels, not those flanged ones. Though it is impressive that Suzuki put those on the Strom. Next cheapest bike that has wheels like that is the Yamaha Super Tenere.

--mark

[Garandman]

One thing that hasn't really come out in this thread about the V-Strom is the engine. That 650 is a real overachiever and reliable and durable as well. I put an Akrapovic exhaust on mine that was a lot lighter and sounded pretty good. The clutch and gearbox received high marks and helped the V-Strom win the Motorradfahrer magazine "Alpenkonig" [King of the Alps] award twice. The German V-Strom owners joked, "Why didn't Motorrad include the DL1000? Because otherwise the BMW R1200GS would be third." I translated the article, somewhere.

The 2nd gen does around 12.45s @ 102.5mph [MCNews]. The "heavy middleweights" are not a lot faster until you get up over 80mph.

[nhbubba]

Sorry, should have specified traditional spoked wheels, not those flanged ones.

You say it like its a bad thing. They look like great wheels to me. I like the design better than the $20-something-k BMW 1200GS wheels. Those have a flange as well, but on the outside of the tire bead.. just begging to get damaged.

As I said earlier, the DL650XT is a compelling package. Even to a 1st gen DL650 owner like me. I need to test one, see if the power advantage is as the reviews say. Price sure as hell is right, comparatively.

[markbvt]

You say it like its a bad thing. They look like great wheels to me. I like the design better than the $20-something-k BMW 1200GS wheels. Those have a flange as well, but on the outside of the tire bead.. just begging to get damaged.

The design used on the Beemers is very stout. My concern about the flange on the Strom wheels (and similar) is not the wheel itself, but rather the spokes. That 90-degree bend that they have to make at the end is not a formula for the greatest strength. Straight-through spokes (as on the BMW wheels, the Tiger 800 XC wheels, etc) are theoretically more robust. Triumph even redesigned the rear hub of the Bonneville family to use straight-through instead of angled spokes because of problems with spokes breaking.

Of course, the Strom isn't typically going to suffer the same sort of abuse offroad that, say, a KTM 1190 Adventure R might, so the angled spokes are probably a nonissue. But still...

For me though it's all moot. All of my motorcycles use tubes, and they don't bother me. In fact, tubes have certain advantages. But yes, the XT is the most compelling of the DL650s.

--mark

[nhbubba]

What advantages do tubes bring?
I honestly see none. All things equal, I'd go tubeless every day.

[Stromper]

nria

You can get a 2014 New V2 1000 cc or slightly used for about 9500

If Loaded 2 up touring I would go for the 1K

I go everywhere on my 06 VStrom , just bulled it down a single track courtesy of TOMTOM winding (disappearing more like it) roads

Did 230 miles up to the Berks and home in 6 hours and then fine for the rest of the day.

Meeting the other Strommers in Maine next month for 1200 miles of mixed surface

[markbvt]

What advantages do tubes bring?
I honestly see none. All things equal, I'd go tubeless every day.

1) They hold Dynabeads in, so I don't make a big mess when I change tires.

2) They hold air no matter what shape the rim is in. If you bend the lip of the rim on a tubeless wheel enough so the bead no longer seats enough to hold air, you're SOL. Why do I bring this up? Because I have actually had to pull the cast front wheel off an R1200GS on the side of the Trans-Labrador Highway, dismount the tire, yank out the valve stem, install a tube, and remount tire and wheel, at dusk, with a bear wandering around nearby. This was the result of a pothole hit that dinged the rim badly enough to instantly deflate the tire. If all of us had been riding bikes with tubeless wheels, that GS would have been immobile. It would have required a fantastically expensive tow to get it back home (which would have needed to be initiated by one or more of us riding 100+ miles to town to find someone willing to go collect the bike). But because I'd brought spare tubes, we were able to get the bike back on the road in a little over half an hour, and he made it the remaining 2500 or so miles back home without further issue.



For general purpose street use, sure, tubeless is more convenient. But there's really no drawback to tubes aside from a slight convenience hit. Even that, though, is just a matter of perspective. When I go touring, I always carry tire changing tools with me, and if I have a puncture, I'd kind of rather just pull the tire, install a new tube, and not have to worry about it, instead of hoping my plugged tire will hold till I get home.

--mark