[The KING]

Some food for thought...

Hmmm, he wants to roll back the tax cuts on the 200K crowd, BUT,
he wants to increase the estate tax exemption to 2mm (currently at 1.5).

Now who does that REALLY benefit?

the rich folks/small businesses with gross estates between 1.5MM and 2MM, it means THEY get the benefit... how much of a benefit, well, that's more complicated, but the point is, that segment is getting a break from the estate tax which is generally a 50% whack of your gross estate.

I don't know about you, but most of us plebes will never have an estate tax problem.... so, on the one hand, he taxes the rich more, yet on the other, gives them a benefit.... whether one out-weighs the other, that's another can 'o worms...


Keep in mind, I'm looking at this from the perspective of the average Joe. Not the Joe with a "small" business worth at least 1.5MM....



"Kerry- Edwards Estate Tax Plan
Background:
With the upcoming election becoming tighter every day, we thought it would be useful for our
readers to know what the Kerry/ Edwards camp says about federal estate tax. (This information
is posted on the Kerry-Edwards web-site.)
Basically, the Kerry plan attempts to "cut the deficit in half and invest in affordable health care
and better schools." The Kerry plan finances these programs by making changes in the income
tax system and also retaining the estate tax system (but with modifications.)
As well publicized, the Kerry proposal would "roll back" the Bush income tax cuts for those
taxpayers making over $200,000.
On the estate tax side, the Kerry plan would "provide an immediate tax break for small
businesses and family farms by immediately raising the estate tax exemption to $4 million per
couple and $10 million for a family owned business or farm. The estate tax would be
maintained for the largest estates."
Significance:
Clearly, the Kerry plan focuses on "reform" as opposed to "repeal" of the estate tax. While the
above quoted paragraph is a bit "short on details," election year promises often turn out to be
more "aspirational" than "literal". Regardless of who wins the election, it should not surprise
anyone if we have another round of tax reform. Phoenix will continue to provide updates on this
topic."

[highsider]

Wow. Did you know that Kerry/Edwards also wants to make it legal to masturbate in public? I'll bet you didn't know that......

[odduc]

Another blaring example of the hypocrisy coming from Kerry/Edwards.

BTW, Teh-ray-sah Heinz-Kerry released the first two pages of her 2003 tax returns, not the complete return, you "scumbag idiots"(this is exactly what she thinks of you and I), and she paid only a 12.4% tax rate on her $5+ million reported on those pages. I'll bet that everyone reading this paid taxes on their income well above that rate and NONE made anywhere near that much.

So what is my point:HYPOCRISY

Kerry, a real man of the people...

[highsider]

Yeah, and also John Kerry tortured small animals when he was a child.

And Theresa Kerry made Janet Jackson's boob fall out by ordering one of her sweat shop workers to make the stiching fucked up.

AND, John Edwards' wife had a threesome with that Mary Kay Letourneau chick and her 13 year old mack daddy.......

[The KING]

highsider is definitely on a roll today...

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by highsider
Yeah, and also John Kerry tortured small animals when he was a child.

And Theresa Kerry made Janet Jackson's boob fall out by ordering one of her sweat shop workers to make the stiching fucked up.

AND, John Edwards' wife had a threesome with that Mary Kay Letourneau chick and her 13 year old mack daddy.......

Dood, I look young, maybe I can hook up with that Mary-Kay Letourneau....


Don't forget, Kerry used to ride a Ducati 900SS....That's worse than all Bush's bikes combined!

Oh....wait....

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by lrrs167
BTW, Teh-ray-sah Heinz-Kerry released the first two pages of her 2003 tax returns, not the complete return, you "scumbag idiots"(this is exactly what she thinks of you and I), and she paid only a 12.4% tax rate on her $5+ million reported on those pages. I'll bet that everyone reading this paid taxes on their income well above that rate and NONE made anywhere near that much.

Given that she's a principal holder in a major corporation, doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that her primary source of income might be from the sale of stock / options held for more than one year and/or dividends on long term holdings? Which are taxed at 15% for someone of her income, down from 20% as part of the latest tax cuts.

However the inequity of it all isn't so bad when you consider that capital gains / dividends are directly related to corporate profits, which are already taxed at close to 50%. Besides that, the case that a low capital gains tax is necessary for a healthy economy has been made fairly decisively IMHO. Nonetheless, it does seem unfair sometimes that Joe CEO gets taxed at 15% on his 4 million dollar option sale while you get stuck at 25-30% on the income you earn doing actual work.

[odduc]

highsider, are you drinking again??????



You are always funny when you're drinking.



Anyway, keep it up. You too funny. You vewy funny wound-eye.

[The KING]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Given that she's a principal holder in a major corporation, doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that her primary source of income might be from the sale of stock / options held for more than one year and/or dividends on long term holdings? Which are taxed at 15% for someone of her income, down from 20% as part of the latest tax cuts.

However the inequity of it all isn't so bad when you consider that capital gains / dividends are directly related to corporate profits, which are already taxed at close to 50%. Besides that, the case that a low capital gains tax is necessary for a healthy economy has been made fairly decisively IMHO. Nonetheless, it does seem unfair sometimes that Joe CEO gets taxed at 15% on his 4 million dollar option sale while you get stuck at 25-30% on the income you earn doing actual work.

sorry darrell, but there are SO many assumptions in your reply, I don't even know where to begin....

for starters, attributing what "she" owns is a can of worms all it's own. She may simply be a trustee to an entity that holds all her shares (read: holding company, on shore or off? maybe some parts through a captive or not, broken up by her sons/family?), IF, in fact she is a "principal" shareholder, however that might be defined.

oh, and btw, taxed at 50% IF they are outside of various holding structures.... furthermore, the realization of that 50% can be reduced by other various factors... It's fully within the realm of possibility that her tax return nets "0", zip, nada.... As a matter of fact, her tax return would likely be VERY different if she didn't stand to be a "high profile" person...

[highsider]

You know, I was going to vote for Bush until I heard about his "French people are pussies" tax.

Thats right, there is an extra 22% tax this year for anyone with a French last name. This is in honor of the French being a nation of vaginas who run screaming at every threat. My last name being "Bataille", I really dont want to pay an extra 22% this year, so I'm voting for Kerry.

[odduc]

The simple solution:

Eliminate the IRS.
Impose a FLAT tax (bring it, KING or Mystery or whatever). I know this is one of the few things we disagree on, but I am right on this one!

Yes, it sounds too simple. But, that is the point. The tax code, as it is today, is far too complicated and downright scary for most of us common-folk. The system is so badly broken that another band-aid will not fix it. Scrap the IRS and start over.

[The KING]

Originally posted by lrrs167
The simple solution:

Eliminate the IRS.
Impose a FLAT tax (bring it, KING or Mystery or whatever). I know this is one of the few things we disagree on, but I am right on this one!

Yes, it sounds too simple. But, that is the point. The tax code, as it is today, is far too complicated and downright scary for most of us common-folk. The system is so badly broken that another band-aid will not fix it. Scrap the IRS and start over.

define "flat tax"...

I will agree with you on "too complicated and downright scary" though, did you know, that if you die, and you're worth let's say, 1.5MM, the second you die, a LIEN IS AUTOMATICALLY PLACED UPON YOUR ENTIRE GROSS ESTATE, wherever on the planet it migh exist? (assuming, of course you are a US citizen). Not ONLY that, but, if for whatever reason your executor can't pay the tax, THE MAN, can go after property that was given to beneficiaries.

So, if your rich uncle gives you a house on the cape when he dies, and for whatever reason there's a shortfall in taxes, guess what? you may very well have to kiss your house goodbye.

how's that for scary?

I can scare you EVEN more if you like....

[odduc]

Oh believe me, I am quite aware of the power of the IRS. Even though, it is a completely anti-Constitutional institution. But, try fighting them and you will find yourself in a world of pain or jail.

Anyway, FLAT TAX:

Example:10% of your income will go to the Fed as a tax. No deductions, no loopholes. Regardless of your income level, ALL will pay 10% or whatever percentage is deemed fair and reasonable. Also, simplify business taxes in the same way, Flat tax. Eliminate the Estate tax(Bush is already working to make this a reality). And, basically, simplify the ways in which the government collects taxes. It would be a tough task, but long overdue.

[The KING]

btw: here's another goodie: the executor is personally liable for tax... so, if you're rich uncle names you executor of his estate, be afraid, be VERY afraid....

[highsider]

Originally posted by The KING
btw: here's another goodie: the executor is personally liable for tax... so, if you're rich uncle names you executor of his estate, be afraid, be VERY afraid....

Theresa Kerry KILLED her rich uncle. Then she had sex with him, and inherited all of his money.

Vote for Kerry - cause his wife is a necrophiliac.

[hohum]

Chris,

You rock!

[odduc]

THREAD JACK:
highsider, you're a liberal pansy

So, you wanna meet me somewhere so we can FIGHT???????

What else do I need to do to antagonize you to violence?????

C'mon man, I am gonna introduce you to my blingy bling brass knuckles and then I'm gonna kick you with my Doc Martens until you're calling me, "uncle". And, then I'm gonna steal your lunch money!!!!!

THIS CONCLUDES THIS THREAD JACK.

[highsider]

Originally posted by lrrs167
THREAD JACK:
highsider, you're a liberal pansy

So, you wanna meet me somewhere so we can FIGHT???????

What else do I need to do to antagonize you to violence?????

C'mon man, I am gonna introduce you to my blingy bling brass knuckles and then I'm gonna kick you with my Doc Martens until you're calling me, "uncle". And, then I'm gonna steal your lunch money!!!!!

THIS CONCLUDES THIS THREAD JACK.

You remind me of somebody. I can't remember their name, but I remember that they were a BIG SISSY.

That is all, Mr. Prez.

[Honclfibr]

A flat tax on long term capital gains (i.e. taxing them at the standard income rate) would remove the incentive for long term investment, discouraging retirement savings somewhat. It also removes the penalty for dumping stock options. It would lead to higher volatility in the stock market, which is a bad thing any way you look at it.

Besides, unless I'm mistaken most flat tax proposals called for the elimination of capital gains tax, not rolling it into the standard income rate. Under such a scenario you would see people like Theresa Heinz paying zero tax, not more.

[The KING]

honclfbr talking about finance is like me talking about engineering...

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by The KING
honclfbr talking about finance is like me talking about engineering...

So which part did I get wrong, Joe? That most flat tax proposals favored elimination of capital gains tax for individuals, or that such a proposal would most likely reduce the personal income taxes of someone like Theresa Heniz to about zero?