[hohum]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
You just put cost in front of individual social/health matters pal, real ethical....

i.e., what the republican party's primary platform is

Originally posted by hohum
i.e., what the republican party's primary platform is

so what was that about logical fallacies?

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
Yeah, 'cause you seem to THINK it's two separate and unrelated issues. They're not. Why should it's status change, or more appripriately, why should we even look INTO changing it's status if there's no "demonstrable" positive apsects?





You just put cost in front of individual social/health matters pal, real ethical....

I turn this to you...show me the negative impacts this could have on society. Providing it is done in a way mirroring alcohol.....

Which one is worse....

ANd dont give me the...I'm not palying that game because I dont care if either is illegal....we live in a free country and it is not up to you to tell me what is good for me and what isnt..


and leave the driving aspect out of it..


*tap**tap**hello* *hello* ...is this thing on?

[Cam_In_IL]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
You just put cost in front of individual social/health matters pal, real ethical....

As well he should. Cost determines those individual social/health matters that you just talked about.

Error: Mystery Squid.

all this piss and vinegar about pot, one MIGHT think all objections to it's legalities thereof might have fallen.

So if all your arguments are sound, why has it not been made legal yet?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
Yeah, 'cause you seem to THINK it's two separate and unrelated issues. They're not. Why should it's status change, or more appripriately, why should we even look INTO changing it's status if there's no "demonstrable" positive apsects?

Do we need to come up with any other answer than simply smoking pot does no harm to anyone else? Remember, noone is arguing that you should be allowed to do dangerous things while intoxicated, just the right to intoxication.

Sure, you can argue that it ups the cost of healthcare as a result of cancer and ER visits, but you're a diehard republican and don't think the state should be in the business of healthcare so what do you care? Also, you'll be hard pressed to find any real studies linking cancer with pot smoking because the government can't/won't fund them. There's anecdotal evidence, but nothing more since the research hasn't been done. I DARE you to find one case of a pot overdose (plenty of em for alcohol).

As far as an argument FOR smoking pot, without taking into account societal benefits of not prosecuting pot smokers, the only rational argument is that if it does no harm why should it be illegal?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
all this piss and vinegar about pot, one MIGHT think all objections to it's legalities thereof might have fallen.

So if all your arguments are sound, why has it not been made legal yet?

Because the MOB rules, and the MOB isn't interested in reason or rational thought.

Case in point: 2004 presidential election

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
all this piss and vinegar about pot, one MIGHT think all objections to it's legalities thereof might have fallen.

So if all your arguments are sound, why has it not been made legal yet?

too lazy we smoke too much

[Cam_In_IL]

It's not legal yet because the majority of the voting population isn't educated on the truths about marijuana. It's very simple. Most people aren't gonna take time and read up on the facts. They will rely on what the government says, regardless of how true it is.

The government is not always right.

[TheIglu]

Just because alcohol is legal and has been around forever, does it make it good for our country? For individuals?

If we were raised in a situation where it was considered a dangerous and illegal drug, what would be different from today? Less bars, less alcoholics, probably the same amount of arrests from it, etc.

We would have a country where more people would enjoy LIFE, not a bottle or a joint.

I consider pot similar to alcohol. Now if pot was legal all these years and socially accepted, would everyone be for legalizing alcohol? I bet not.

One mainstream behavior affecting drug is plenty. I don't see pot as bad, I see having more legal drugs bad. It's pretty apparent people can't handle one right now, I can only imagine two.

Once again, personal opinion here. Not trying to sway anyone any other way.

Originally posted by hohum
Do we need to come up with any other answer than simply smoking pot does no harm to anyone else? Remember, noone is arguing that you should be allowed to do dangerous things while intoxicated, just the right to intoxication.

Sure, you can argue that it ups the cost of healthcare as a result of cancer and ER visits, but you're a diehard republican and don't think the state should be in the business of healthcare so what do you care? Also, you'll be hard pressed to find any real studies linking cancer with pot smoking because the government can't/won't fund them. There's anecdotal evidence, but nothing more since the research hasn't been done. I DARE you to find one case of a pot overdose (plenty of em for alcohol).

As far as an argument FOR smoking pot, without taking into account societal benefits of not prosecuting pot smokers, the only rational argument is that if it does no harm why should it be illegal?

well done!

and to most of that, I'd actually agree

however, it's been illegal for so long, there appears to be absolutely no incentive to change it's status. the MOB just doesn't really care, for if it did, it would "force" the issue, make a big enough noise as to how it's completely harmless (back it up with truckloads of data), and ultimately, "force" it into legality. face it, there's no real benefit (at least, not enough to ignite a meaningful movement), and no one really cares. At least, not enough to make it legal. YET.

Maybe that's the irony is the group of people that want to legalize pot are just too damned laid back to try and rally other laid back supporters

[Cam_In_IL]

I disagree. During Prohibition, alcohol consumption, and crime went UP! Soon after it was repealed, consumption returned to normal levels. You guys don't get that anytime you tell people they can't have something, they'll want it even more. Especially when it's been proven that it's not dangerous like it was once thought to be.

Chart 1. Total Expenditure on Distilled Spirts as a Percentage of Total Alcohol Sales (1890-1960)

oh yeah, don't DARE to find one case of overdose.

So what then? Should legalization revolve around whether anyone has OD'D or not? Obviously, that's a weee bit narrow...


maybe no one has "overdosed" on pot per-se, but there's plenty of proven negative effects out there....

Originally posted by Cam_In_RI
I disagree. During Prohibition, alcohol consumption, and crime went UP! Soon after it was repealed, consumption returned to normal levels. You guys don't get that anytime you tell people they can't have something, they'll want it even more. Especially when it's been proven that it's not dangerous like it was once thought to be.

Chart 1. Total Expenditure on Distilled Spirts as a Percentage of Total Alcohol Sales (1890-1960)

Again, if you and your contingency are sooo convinced as to why it should be legal, start a movement, solicit votes!

MAKE US CARE WHY WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO AND LEGALIZE YOUR POT ISSUE!

We are THE MOB.

[TheIglu]

It is odd. How would they track illegal sales and consumption of alcohol?

If it is illegal, wouldn't there be no real way to track how much is being used?

Seriously, don't you think that data is a bit flawed? Is there any explanation about how it was attained?

[hohum]

Originally posted by TheIglu
One mainstream behavior affecting drug is plenty. I don't see pot as bad, I see having more legal drugs bad. It's pretty apparent people can't handle one right now, I can only imagine two.

But, as a result of alcohol being legal, there is TONS of research into its effects and people can actually make an informed decision. The same can't be said for pot.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the state to spend more money on rehab/helping people with serious drug problems, than on incarcerating them? Right now the numbers are at about $100 for incarceration for every $1 on treatment. Incarceration won't stop the drug problem, only treatment will.

You are right, people can't handle one right now, but serious alcoholism/horrible alcohol poisoning/deaths from contaminated bathtub gin is certainly down from prohibition days. Regulate and Treat, don't incarcerate.

I fully respect your position Clayton, I just think that there are better ways to help people with problems with drugs deal.

[Cam_In_IL]

Here's the homicide rate. Note the increase after 1921, and the subsequent decrease.



Here, you can clearly see a drop in 1921, but it went back up. You can't keep people from getting what they want.

[Cam_In_IL]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
Again, if you and your contingency are sooo convinced as to why it should be legal, start a movement, solicit votes!

MAKE US CARE WHY WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO AND LEGALIZE YOUR POT ISSUE!

We are THE MOB.

We're already ahead of you, bucko.

NORML

[highsider]

Okay, heres why I think all drugs should be legal-

So that I can sell them. Mostly to little kids. Oh sure, you might think that kids dont have much money, but you're wrong. Their parents give them lunch money every, single day. You'd be amazed by how quickly $1.25 turns into, like $20, when your selling heroin to 8 year olds. And if they dont have money, well, there is always sexual favors.

Dont you all go and judge me, like I know you're doing. I have to feed my family, and support my RAGING marijuana addiction somehow.

Also, if I didn't sell drugs, there wouldn't be any prostitutes out there for you folks to have sex with. After all, no one gives head like a crackhead with no teeth.

[Cam_In_IL]

Originally posted by TheIglu
It is odd. How would they track illegal sales and consumption of alcohol?

If it is illegal, wouldn't there be no real way to track how much is being used?

Seriously, don't you think that data is a bit flawed? Is there any explanation about how it was attained?

My bad. I got my data from the CATO Institute.

[hohum]

Originally posted by TheIglu
It is odd. How would they track illegal sales and consumption of alcohol?

If it is illegal, wouldn't there be no real way to track how much is being used?

Seriously, don't you think that data is a bit flawed? Is there any explanation about how it was attained?

Actually, if anything alot of that prohibition era data on alcohol consumption is UNDER estimated (its largely figured based upon seizures, busts, costs per ounce of illegal booze, etc)

Pretty much any source of data (other than the modern day prohibition party) indicates that alcohol consumption drastically increased during that period, and alcohol safety (bad bathtub gin) went down drastically.

Originally posted by hohum
But, as a result of alcohol being legal, there is TONS of research into its effects and people can actually make an informed decision. The same can't be said for pot.

So what are you saying, since we now have tons research on alcohol we can make an informed decision on ultimately starting a movement to prohibit it again? That's a red herring argument...

Originally posted by Cam_In_RI
Here's the homicide rate. Note the increase after 1921, and the subsequent decrease.



Here, you can clearly see a drop in 1921, but it went back up. You can't keep people from getting what they want.

you do realize this single faceted data is making you look like a chump right?

[highsider]

What we NEED to do is to start having the government SPONSOR marijuana dealers. You want to see crime stop? How many criminals would be out breaking into your houses and cars when they're stoned all the time. They wouldn't, because (a) they would be far too lazy, and (b), the minute they broke the glass to get in, they would be paralyzed with laughter at how funny they are.

Also, we shoud give all terrorists free pot. Especially Osama. He would be a much better guy if he spent all day listening to Cypress Hill's "Hits from the Bong" and getting stoned.

[Cam_In_IL]

No it's not. Both are drugs. Both cause mind altering affects. The current marijuana laws came about during the Prohibition movement because people who were drinking alcohol switched to pot as a an alternative. No red herring here.

Do you even know what a Red Herring is?