[bentbryan]

I've only heard the sound bite. "He's *bleeping* faking. He's not *bleeping* dead!" Then BANG. Another marine remarks "He's dead now!" Apparently the marine who killed the insurgent was shot in the face the previous day.

As far as the war being about oil, which I have absolutely NO problem with, how come we haven't annexed the fields yet? There's really nothing (fact-wise) to support the claim that it was about oil. I'm open to suggestions, as I said, I have zero problem with war for oil.

[dhuze]

Originally posted by beet
we go 2 there place blow um up

how would you like if they came here & did the same
well if it was me i would tell you SMD no oil for you
brain washed babys

I think they tried that. Now "they" are reaping the rewards for supporting terrorism. I hope you didnt forget sept. 11th

[benVFR]

Originally posted by highsider
This is my point; anyone who wasn't looking for trouble left that place last week. If one of the insurgents/whateverthefucktheyare got shot because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, that is officially tough shit.

Lets face it, these soldiers must be in total adrenaline mode - people are trying to kill them. Therefore, if I was in their shoes, everyone I saw in that city that wasn't wearing a US uniform would have a date with the end of my assault rifle.

I think its to expect a soldier to be able to pick and choose who to shoot in a situation like that.

I agree with some of what you said, but Fallujah is definitely not just full of insurgents, it is a nasty complicated mess.

The civilians are poring back into the city this week. They have lots of reasons to do so. Most of the men who were heads of households never even left, they sent the women and children out of town and stayed behind to protect their homes from looting insurgents (and probably looting marines too).

So the marines have a very tough job right now figuring out who is an insurgent and who is not. They are basically going house to house and everyone is pretending to be an innocent, and then the marines find bombs, weapons, etc.. in some of the houses anyway.

Ben

[bentbryan]

I guarantee you there is no looting going on there by marines, if it were the embeds would be all over it.

[bemused]

Originally posted by dhuze
I think they tried that. Now "they" are reaping the rewards for supporting terrorism. I hope you didnt forget sept. 11th

are you still trying to connect our actions in Iraq with the atrocities committed by Osama & Co. ???

[cbrf41999]

The marine did his duty. Enough said, he should receive a award for his stellar duty to his nation.
These people are trying to kill people, they are being killed daily US and insurgent scum. You dont take chances, you do what you need to do. They all want to go home. And they are doing whats neccesary, the diffrence is insurgency members dont seem to want to go home. Thats why they are OK with the booby trap bombs.

I think if you havent heard the clip yet you should see it. It does tell a tale, not neccesarily the video, but the sound. Listen to the gunshots around this marine on the tape. Firing from outside or somewwhere in the mosque? You dont know, and neither do they im sure. There is a war going on bullets flying grenades going off.

I also heard this 20 year old here was shot in the face just several days ago. And he has returned to the field of battle. Congrats to him. Also keep in mind I also heard there was a very similar incident just up the road, just a few minutes prior when a insurgent claimed to be dead, and booby trapped injured a few marines. People this guy was fighting with. Working side by side.

And Pre insurgency, Iraq didnt have much to do with 9/11 but had much to do with terrorism. And now the same scum we are fighting now, we already ran out of Afghanastan. And we should take of the kidgloves and beat them down., with no regard to there lives. And if some Iraqi's die. Then so be it.

[katana0215]

Originally posted by cbrf41999
The marine did his duty. Enough said, he should receive a award for his stellar duty to his nation.
These people are trying to kill people, they are being killed daily US and insurgent scum. You dont take chances, you do what you need to do. They all want to go home. And they are doing whats neccesary, the diffrence is insurgency members dont seem to want to go home. Thats why they are OK with the booby trap bombs.

I think if you havent heard the clip yet you should see it. It does tell a tale, not neccesarily the video, but the sound. Listen to the gunshots around this marine on the tape. Firing from outside or somewwhere in the mosque? You dont know, and neither do they im sure. There is a war going on bullets flying grenades going off.

I also heard this 20 year old here was shot in the face just several days ago. And he has returned to the field of battle. Congrats to him. Also keep in mind I also heard there was a very similar incident just up the road, just a few minutes prior when a insurgent claimed to be dead, and booby trapped injured a few marines. People this guy was fighting with. Working side by side.

And Pre insurgency, Iraq didnt have much to do with 9/11 but had much to do with terrorism. And now the same scum we are fighting now, we already ran out of Afghanastan. And we should take of the kidgloves and beat them down., with no regard to there lives. And if some Iraqi's die. Then so be it.

bravo

[odduc]

The civilians are poring back into the city this week. They have lots of reasons to do so. Most of the men who were heads of households never even left, they sent the women and children out of town and stayed behind to protect their homes from looting insurgents (and probably looting marines too).

Ben, Sorry but you're way fucked up for even suggesting that our Marines would be a part of looting. I swear, dude, some of the shit you post sometimes makes me so fucking angry that I usually will not even respond, but I think you have crossed the line by making your above suggestion.

[bigred875]

I found out some more info onthis...but first let's rewind about 10 years..

There was this brave young war hero who valiantly risks life and limb...shoring(sp?) his boat..jumping of and chasing an unarmed 15yr old Vietnamese soldier in a lion cloth for 50+ yards..then shot him in the back of the head....

And this brave soldier was awarded one of the highest medlas anyone can receive...the Silver Star


NOW 30yrs later... A marine storms into a building...where the previous day...a fire fight was taking place... Some where dead some where not. So upon entering this room this marine notices a worthless piece of dog shit faking to be dead...and not 5 minutes before...right down the road a 19yr/old marine was killing and 5 others serioulsy injured by a booby trapped body...
this marine shot and killed the enemy who was face down and hands not in plain veiw...after yelling over and over agian...they piece of dog shit..who by the way was shooting at our marines they day before...did not move...

excuse me...but isn't that what marines are supposed to do? this is a not brainer...marines are not police officers...they do not need to follow the same guidelines as the police...they are permitted to kill when they feel threatened..period.

like or not...and I know all you libs will say that you do not agree..adn do not feel that way...and not all libs are like this....but guess fucking what...THIS is a prime example of the liberal influence....most notably in the media.....

Oh ya by the way...this marine being prosecuted? WAS SHOT IN THE FUCKING FACE NOT 24 HOURS BEFORE!!!!

I am fighting mad about this...and you all should be too..this is a fucking outrage and this crap needs to stop..NOW!!!

Get the fucking media out of there...they can scour for headlines somwhere else...

more proof of this...CNN...do you know WHO CNN followed this story up with?

A marine...thinking maybe they might be knowledgeable on this... NO

ok..maybe an ex-generla to chime in with an opinion..NOPE TRY AGAIN

ok..I got it this time...the american people...ya thats gotta be it.. NOPE

FUCKING IRAQI'S...thats who they had on TV chiming in with their opinions.....



And THIS story is the top story...when the enemy but the head off of a women born in Dublin...spend the last 25yrs of her life in Iraq..married to an Iraqi...and her life's mission was helping the poor and hungry in Iraq....

and that story gets pushed aside...What is going on here...and what can we do to change this....

[bemused]

Originally posted by lrrs167
Ben, Sorry but you're way fucked up for even suggesting that our Marines would be a part of looting. I swear, dude, some of the shit you post sometimes makes me so fucking angry that I usually will not even respond, but I think you have crossed the line by making your above suggestion.

reality check:

90% or more of the folk in uniform WOULD NOT have anything to do with looting... whether from common decency, or fear of punishment.

HOWEVER-- in every armed conflict the US has been a part of-- up to and including the 1st Gulf War and Afghanistan-- there have always been incidents of soldiers, sailors, Marines & airmen collecting "spoils" or "souvenirs".

it happens.

I remember, during Desert Storm, working the "prison planes" coming outta the Gulf, talking to the guards about the charges they were herding back to the Kansas to their new home @ Ft. Leavenworth. along w/ the usual crimes that servicemen get tagged for under the UCMJ, there were some looting convictions... along with, sadly, a couple of rapes and murders that I remember.

your wanting to defend the Marines is admirable... but don't forget the occasional bad apples, bub. sux, but it's true...

[bigred875]

Originally posted by bemused
reality check:

90% or more of the folk in uniform WOULD NOT have anything to do with looting... whether from common decency, or fear of punishment.

HOWEVER-- in every armed conflict the US has been a part of-- up to and including the 1st Gulf War and Afghanistan-- there have always been incidents of soldiers, sailors, Marines & airmen collecting "spoils" or "souvenirs".

it happens.

I remember, during Desert Storm, working the "prison planes" coming outta the Gulf, talking to the guards about the charges they were herding back to the Kansas to their new home @ Ft. Leavenworth. along w/ the usual crimes that servicemen get tagged for under the UCMJ, there were some looting convictions... along with, sadly, a couple of rapes and murders that I remember.

your wanting to defend the Marines is admirable... but don't forget the occasional bad apples, bub. sux, but it's true...

spoils of war..lol

I agree with LRRS, you operate under the assumption that it isn't even a possibility. By simply acknowledging it, one can make the argument than it can ultimately contribute to it.

Originally posted by bemused
reality check:

90% or more

I LOVE this visibly present a lower number and cover yourself with the "or more"..... Question is, are you giving the armed forces more credit, or less?

[bemused]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
I agree with LRRS, you operate under the assumption that it isn't even a possibility. By simply acknowledging it, one can make the argument than it can ultimately contribute to it.

have you given up proofreading altogether???

[bemused]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
I LOVE this visibly present a lower number and cover yourself with the "or more"..... Question is, are you giving the armed forces more credit, or less?

covering my ass, of course...

[Cam_In_IL]

I seriously believe you all are missing an important point here. We MUST follow the rules and regulations to the best of our ability, or we become no better than those we fight. Our saving grace in any war is that we are better trained, more disciplined, and we abide by the rules we fight others for not abiding by. Does shit happen? Hell yes, but you can't let emotion rule your actions. I don't know if the actions of this squad were justified or not. I do know that killing because they deserve it (and they do) is not the correct answer.

Geneva Convention
Article 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

Again, if that room was secure, then the decision to kill an unarmed combatant was wrong. You don't have to like it or agree, but those are the rules your military must follow. Whether or not that soldier was injured the day prior has no bearing on his decision. There is a difference between killing and murdering. We do not murder enemy soldiers. Nor should any of you condone it, which is the attitude I see in here.

That said, would I have shot him if I was that Marine? You bet your ass I would.

[hohum]

Heh, quoting the Geneva Convention, what a concept

I haven't chimed in on this one, and I am glad Cam adequately expressed my sentiments.

On the other hand, the current administration has OPENLY flouted the Geneva convention over the last few years, and quite frankly I don't expect them to abide by even one article of it anymore given the current administration.

Originally posted by Cam_In_RI
I seriously believe you all are missing an important point here. We MUST follow the rules and regulations to the best of our ability, or we become no better than those we fight. Our saving grace in any war is that we are better trained, more disciplined, and we abide by the rules we fight others for not abiding by. Does shit happen? Hell yes, but you can't let emotion rule your actions. I don't know if the actions of this squad were justified or not. I do know that killing because they deserve it (and they do) is not the correct answer.

Geneva Convention
Article 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

Again, if that room was secure, then the decision to kill an unarmed combatant was wrong. You don't have to like it or agree, but those are the rules your military must follow. Whether or not that soldier was injured the day prior has no bearing on his decision. There is a difference between killing and murdering. We do not murder enemy soldiers. Nor should any of you condone it, which is the attitude I see in here.

That said, would I have shot him if I was that Marine? You bet your ass I would.

Originally posted by hohum

On the other hand, the current administration has OPENLY flouted the Geneva convention over the last few years, and quite frankly I don't expect them to abide by even one article of it anymore given the current administration.

Never miss a chance eh?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Mr. E. Squid
Never miss a chance eh?

Not when the lawyer who told the president that the Geneva convention is meaningless (albeit a very flawed analysis) is appointed to the AGUS post

[bigred875]

a) the geneva convention does not apply..PERIOD we are following it...but are not required to...

b) he STILL had just cause to kill that guy....


Cam it seems like YOU are missing the point...

[bigred875]

Originally posted by hohum
Not when the lawyer who told the president that the Geneva convention is meaningless (albeit a very flawed analysis) is appointed to the AGUS post

the geneva conventioj only applies against another state...place tell me what STATE(country or otherwise) we are currently fighting..

We are fighting against terrorists and insurgents....

[hohum]

Originally posted by bigred875
the geneva conventioj only applies against another state...place tell me what STATE(country or otherwise) we are currently fighting..

We are fighting against terrorists and insurgents....

And just because you have defeated the primary government the Geneva convention no longer applies?

Come on man, you have got to be kidding... We are at war, an OFFICIAL WAR (whether or not the primary government has been deposed or not). The Geneva Convention applies, and before you say screw the Geneva Convention, you watch what happens to OUR boys next time we engage in another serious war.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by hohum
And just because you have defeated the primary government the Geneva convention no longer applies?

Come on man, you have got to be kidding... We are at war, an OFFICIAL WAR (whether or not the primary government has been deposed or not). The Geneva Convention applies, and before you say screw the Geneva Convention, you watch what happens to OUR boys next time we engage in another serious war.

the war ended in March....and that is exactly what we are saying..the geneva convention went out the door with saddam....

I am not saying we should not follow it...because I beleive we should...my point is that we do not HAVE to....

AND that the soldier has done absolutely nothing wrong...he did the right thing..

It the unarmed soldier had a grenade he would be a hero...but he didnt...and now he is being prosecuted...

that is just wrong..no matter how you spin it...

Kerry was a hero for shooting an unarmed 15yr/old wearing a towel around his waste in the back of the head after chasing him 50 yards...

He was awarded the silver star for that....and now this...it is crap...

The day before this poor unarmed POW was shooting at our marines...he deserved to die...

[hohum]

Originally posted by bigred875
I am not saying we should not follow it...because I beleive we should...my point is that we do not HAVE to....

AND that the soldier has done absolutely nothing wrong...he did the right thing..

As far as doing the right thing, I agree with Cam on this one... I don't think he did the right thing, but I do think he was justified in what he did... doesn't make it right, but I understand it, and I hope that he's found not guilty.

As far as not having to obey the rules of the Geneva convention, well we don't HAVE to obey the rules of the Geneva convention EVER if we don't WANT to... There is no punishment that could be exacted on our soldiers for not obeying it since we are the most powerful nation in the world. I don't exactly see the Hague calling us out and trying to capture our soldiers as war criminals.

In my book, the WAR doesn't end until we stop FIGHTING it, and until THAT time, if we want our boys to be treated well when captured, we should abide by the rules even if the other side does not. Tough pill to swallow, but thats what being righteous is all about... If you believe this war is a righteous war, we should be fighting it that way.

Originally posted by bigred875

The day before this poor unarmed POW was shooting at our marines...

If you follow that logic to the end, we should just kill all POW's because they were all "shooting at us" the day before they were captured.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
the war ended in March....

I must break my "no politics" silence.....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!~!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

The war ended in March.......I actually have tears in my eyes from laughing.....that is HILARIOUS..........