[bentbryan]

Originally posted by Leebo
It amazes me that you guys can defend AI. . You realy think our detaining the scumbags in Gitmo equals Russian prisons or China? Do you think a ChiCom General would go on TV and say how they investigated the abuse of a "bible or a Koran" or anyone elses holy book? Shit,they would use it to beat them in to confessing to something.
You want see abuse go look at our regular prisons and the abuse prisoner throw on each other and the gaurds there.
Of course that is just my opinion.

Lee

That's it right there. AI compared Gitmo to Soviet gulags. Now after an outcry, they are backtracking and saying that "the wording may have been innappropriate."

Where was AI's response when the Navy SEAL fell out of a helicopter in Afghanistan and was immediately executed by "Taliban/ al Queda" fighters? (Bill "I like vibrators in my ass" O'reilly had AI covered on this. He had a rep from AI on his show and wanted to know where their response was. The rep was like, "we'll respond to it! We will!" And it had already been 2 weeks or something.)

Where was AI when Eric Berg had his head SAWED off?

As far as I'm concerned on this matter, AI can shut the fuck up. If they had found REAL cases of abuse, then I can understand. But they haven't. (not in my opinion anyway)

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Where was AI when Eric Berg had his head SAWED off?

As far as I'm concerned on this matter, AI can shut the fuck up. If they had found REAL cases of abuse, then I can understand. But they haven't. (not in my opinion anyway)

if you have been following the news you would know that a number of people have DIED in CIA / army custody. they were beaten to death, suffocated, etc. is that not a 'real case of abuse'? For some dumb reason the media and people who wanna bash AI pick up on this stupid Koran-defacing issue or the fact that AI made a bad anaology to Russia. Also, the Eric Burg thing is a really bad anaology. AI targets GOVERNMENTS who engage in human rights abuses, not roving gangs of war lords and terrorist. Citing the terrorists who killed Eric B would be like citing Charles Manson. and AGAIN, AI cites very small cases of abuse and very large ones. For some reason people (US citizens) just don't like it when the micoscope falls on America.

[odduc]

Allright, I am 100% in favor of any group who helps expose governments who have no respect for human rights. However, as a few of us have pointed out, it is clear that AI made some major mistakes in the reporting of the Gitmo situation. THAT is my beef with AI!!!!!!!!!!!!! They did nothing but give the fanatics around the world another reason to further hate the USA. This kind of crap feeds the "hate the USA" propaganda machine. AI was irresponsible in their reporting of "abuse".

Common sense.......

[odduc]

Despite his criticism of Guantanamo Bay, Carter said Amnesty International should not have called the prison "the gulag of our time" in a report last month. President Bush has termed the report by the human-rights group "absurd."

The above quote from Jimmy Carter.

I rest my case.

On another note everybody is aware that all governments comit certin acts of "interogation" on suspects. When in a war time situation that boundry is more than likely pushed to the limit.
I am not saying it is right or wrong, i am just saying it is what it is.
Also you guys are free to speak your minds and opinions, the reason for that is because we have the armed forces to protect that right and a few orginiztions that probably step over the line to get data we need to protect that right.
That is one of te fundemental rights that vetrans fight and die for.
It can be argued that our country sends its solders, sailors in to areas needlesly.. IE alot of people feel we should not be in Iraq, but then on the same token we as a country are slammed when we don't step in and help stop human rights violations.
Once again just my opinion.
Lee

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
They did nothing but give the fanatics around the world another reason to further hate the USA. This kind of crap feeds the "hate the USA" propaganda machine. AI was irresponsible in their reporting of "abuse".

Common sense.......

No, i think the fact that we tortured some people to death was purpose to give fanatics a reason to hate us.

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
The above quote from Jimmy Carter.

I rest my case.

the carter quote is spot on. but don't lose sight of the forrest becuase of a tree.

[odduc]

No, i think the fact that we tortured some people to death was purpose to give fanatics a reason to hate us.

I, honestly, do not recall anyone of the detainees in the hands of the US military being tortured to death.

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
I, honestly, do not recall anyone of the detainees in the hands of the US military being tortured to death.

watch or read the news. it's been all over it for months. here is link to just the FIRST link of a google search. http://tinyurl.com/2f9ja


Buy why pay attention to things like serious abuse when we can just focus on the use of the world 'goologe", right?

[odduc]

Hello........I thought that we were talking, specifically, about Guatanomo.

Buy why pay attention to things like serious abuse when we can just focus on the use of the world 'goologe", right?

What the fuck are you talking about with that non-sensical statement?

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
Hello........I thought that we were talking, specifically, about Guatanomo.



What the fuck are you talking about with that non-sensical statement?

I am talking about AI and it's relationship to the USA. As for the nonsensicle sentance...hah, i REALLY mispelled 'gulag'. my bad.

[odduc]

No, i think the fact that we tortured some people to death was purpose to give fanatics a reason to hate us.

You seem to be, almost, defending the fanatics with that statement......

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
You seem to be, almost, defending the fanatics with that statement......

not quite. someone stated that a report by AI gave fanatics even more reason to hate the US. I made the above comment to elucidate the fact that there are much GREATER reason to be pissed at the US than an AI report which uses the word 'gulag'.

[odduc]

We, the USA, did not start this 'holy war'. I don't get why so many young people, such as yourself, and the liberal-left in this country insist on blaming America FIRST. It's not our fault, stop the guilty shit already. There are people in the world who hate us and will continue to hate us, no matter how nicey-nice we might try to be with them. We need to defend ourselves against that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The AI report only serves to feed that hatred. Haven't you noticed that every time there is some report such as this that we see footage of anti-American protests from all of the Muslim hotbeds? My whole point is that AI does more to hurt our relations with the rest of the world. It's also very important that we consider the genuine severity of the supposed 'torture'. Sleep deprivation to extract information is NOT torture, especially if it means saving innocent lives. You ought not lose sight of that forest because of the trees that distract you.

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
The AI report only serves to feed that hatred.

i'm sure it does. however, i think the US torturing people to death does more damage than the report. What shocks me, is "old" people or right-wing-nuts who can't not anowledge that sometimes America does bad shit. I *never* blamed America "first", so where do you get off accusing me of that? please quote me as where to I stated that and I'll eat my words. This isn't about 'blame' it's about responsibility for ones actions.

[benVFR]

odduc has a point...

What he is saying is since we are covering everything up, AI should help us cover it up.

Doesn't matter if we do it if we can hide it from the Muslim Street.

BTW... AI seemed to indicate that the gulag comment was their "Nuclear Option" since they've been ignored by the US for 2 years on this. It apparently worked, how many people here knew AI had been criticizing the US for the last 2 years?

It is funny cause Bush/Rummy/Rice love to say, "It's true cause Amnesty International said so" when we're talking about other countries.

[odduc]

I'm neither old nor a right-wing nut.

Settle down, young dude! I merely got the impression of the "blame America first" attitude from some of your statements. If I was wrong, I'm sorry. I am not accusing you of being even the least bit anti-American. I'm sure you're a great American.

I've really said all I can say on this subject. This thread has been throughly beaten like the dead horse it is.

Until the next CT discussion....

dude your like late 30's
Lee

[odduc]

dude your like late 30's

Yes, but I act as if I'm still 18!!!!!!

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
Until the next CT discussion....

hah, ok fair enough. what topic can we move on to next? Kham's tassels?

-chr|s sedition

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by chr|s sedition
if you have been following the news you would know that a number of people have DIED in CIA / army custody. they were beaten to death, suffocated, etc. is that not a 'real case of abuse'? For some dumb reason the media and people who wanna bash AI pick up on this stupid Koran-defacing issue or the fact that AI made a bad anaology to Russia. Also, the Eric Burg thing is a really bad anaology. AI targets GOVERNMENTS who engage in human rights abuses, not roving gangs of war lords and terrorist. Citing the terrorists who killed Eric B would be like citing Charles Manson. and AGAIN, AI cites very small cases of abuse and very large ones. For some reason people (US citizens) just don't like it when the micoscope falls on America.

First off, the people that have died in our custody prolly deserved it, after all, we're not rounding up Boy Scouts. And you are incorrect about AI targeting gov'ts. They target human rights violations, period. (obviously excluding murders that only involve a few people)