[odduc]

Why does this organization have such contempt for the USA? They are claiming hundreds of abuse cases in Guantonomo. So, culturally acceptable meals, a Koran, prayer rug, regular bathing, clean sheets, etc. are considered abusive? I'd like for Amnesty to investigate how ANY other country treats their POWs or enemy detainees. Let's just see who else in the world cares for their POWs as well as our armed forces do. There are REAL cases of human rights abuses that they ought to be focussing on but they choose to attack the USA. WTF......WTF.......WTF

I hope that anyone contributing to this group will reconsider.

[Karaya One]

They MAY be just a little left of Al Franken. This might have something to do with it....

[odduc]

I understand that they are a loony, far-left organization. But, what I don't understand is why they refuse to investigate REAL human rights atrocities. There are places all over the world where people are being denied basic human rights in addition to being physically abused. The USA engages in none of that. We are always the FIRST to offer assistance to any other country when they are faced with a tragedy. So, I just can't understand why these left wing groups choose to make up lies about prisoner abuse, all the while knowing that this sort of thing will only serve to further incite the terrorists. Don't those Amnesty International folks have anything better to do? I just don't see the point. BTW, the Red Cross investigated Guantonomo and found no abuse evident......

[twrayinma]

well, we all know what frightful disassemblers the detainees are...

[Karaya One]

The only guy who cares about Africa is Bono, and only a few listen. How good a job did AI do in Rwanda, and if they showed up complaining they would have been macheted like the rest of the dead.

If they pick on the USA, everyone will listen. They must be starting a fund drive soon.

We are an easy target.

And guess who the leaders of AI mailed checks to in the last election?

HINT - he married money TWICE.

HINT - he had a fire hydrant removed from the front of his Boston mansion so he could park his SUV out front.

HINT - he has tons of friends who served in swiftboats.

There may be just a LITTLE bit of politics here.

Would Josef Stalin even give two shits what AI says about his gulags? How many millions died there? This is how INSANE the comparsion is to the old Soiviet prison system to the USA.

[odduc]

INSANE, indeed!

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by odduc
I understand that they are a loony, far-left organization.

wow. trying to end torture makes you a far-left loony, huh?

AI investigates and documents abuse *all over the world*. the problem is the media dosn't cover such documents on places like russia, mynar, egypt, africa, etc. some of the most disturbing things i have *ever read* are AI reports on abuse in China ( http://tinyurl.com/bnwg6 ). most of the world dosn't associate the US with human rights abuse, so when AI or some other groups claims that such things have happened it makes news more than some guy getting his nuts ripped off in China becuase he dosn't know where his wife is (see the link above). I dont agree with culturally approprate meals, but some of the things that the US has done to prisioners in Cuba, Afganastan, and Iraq are considered human rights abuse all over the world, and as such, AI has called out the US government for it...much like it has done in China.

-sedition

[benVFR]

Yah.. you guys are overreacting.

We need to be called on Human Rights violations just like everyone else. Just cause we have a better record then other countries doesn't mean we should get off easy when it does happen.

I'm sure the only reason you heard of this is cause some uber-right blog/tabloid brought it to your attention. If you were paying attention to the world instead of reading talking points you'd see how often AI, etc.. bashes other countries too.

If you want to bitch about Rwanda bitch about the US and European governments not doing anything about it, not charity organizations. Last time I checked the Red Cross and AI do not have armies. AI definitely cares about Africa, I've done community service for AI and they send a lot of their aid to Africa to benefit children.

John 8:7 comes to mind when people bitch about charity organizations.

[odduc]

uber-right blog/tabloid

Wrong, Ben. I read an article from the New York Times. I don't think thats a right-wing blog/tabloid.

But, again you guys are missing my point. I'm not gonna take this any further because it will do no good whatsoever.

[g®eg]

Originally posted by twrayinma
well, we all know what frightful disassemblers the detainees are...

disassemble?

<bgsound scr=http://www.moviewavs.com/0056218974/MP3S/Movies/Short_Circuit/dead2.mp3>

[benVFR]

Originally posted by odduc
Wrong, Ben. I read an article from the New York Times. I don't think thats a right-wing blog/tabloid.

But, again you guys are missing my point. I'm not gonna take this any further because it will do no good whatsoever.

Ah so it's just you deciding AI has contempt for the US then... cause I highly doubt the NY Times came out saying they have contempt for the US.

Criticizing the US != Contempt/hatred for the US.

Just like disliking Bush != unpatriotic

[twrayinma]

Originally posted by T-595 Greg
disassemble?

<bgsound scr=http://www.moviewavs.com/0056218974/MP3S/Movies/Short_Circuit/dead2.mp3>

that means not tell the truth.

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by benVFR

Criticizing the US != Contempt/hatred for the US.

Just like disliking Bush != unpatriotic

well, like Bush said "if your not with us, your with them".

Ben, I guess you and I are terrorists, huh (well...maybe to cages )?

[benVFR]

Here is what they said about the US, tell us what part is not true and why it shows Amnesty Internation has contempt for the US.

You can go read the report online, they criticize practically every country in the world:

National security and the ‘war on terror'

The blatant disregard for international human rights and humanitarian law in the “war on terror” continued to make a mockery of President George Bush’s claims that the USA was the global champion of human rights. Images of detainees in US custody tortured in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq shocked the world. War crimes in Iraq, and mounting evidence of the torture and ill-treatment of detainees in US custody in other countries, sent an unequivocal message to the world that human rights may be sacrificed ostensibly in the name of security.

President Bush’s refusal to apply the Geneva Conventions to those captured during the international armed conflict in Afghanistan and transferred to the US naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, was challenged by a judicial decision in November. The ruling resulted in the suspension of trials by military commission in Guantánamo, and the government immediately lodged an appeal. The US administration’s treatment of detainees in the “war on terror” continued to display a marked ambivalence to the opinion of expert bodies such as the International Committee of the Red Cross and even of its own highest judicial body. Six months after the Supreme Court ruled that the federal courts had jurisdiction over the Guantánamo detainees, none had appeared in court. Detainees reportedly considered of high intelligence value remained in secret detention in undisclosed locations. In some cases their situation amounted to “disappearance”.

The “war on terror” and the “war on drugs” increasingly merged, and dominated US relations with Latin America and the Caribbean. Following the US elections in November, the Bush administration encouraged governments in the region to give a greater role to the military in public order and internal security operations. The blurring of military and police roles resulted in governments such as those in Brazil, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico and Paraguay deploying military forces to deal with crime and social unrest.

The US doubled the ceiling on the number of US personnel deployed in Colombia in counter-insurgency and counter-narcotics operations. The Colombian government in turn persisted in redefining the country’s 40-year internal conflict as part of the international “war on terror”.

The USA continued to flout international human rights standards by inflicting the death penalty on child offenders, people with mental disabilities, defendants without access to effective legal representation, and foreign nationals denied their consular rights. In 2004, 59 executions were carried out by a capital justice system characterized by arbitrariness, discrimination and error. Scheduled executions of a number of child offenders were stayed pending a Supreme Court ruling on the case of a death row prisoner aged 17 at the time of the crime.

More info:

Full Summary

[chr|s sedition]

i dont know if this is standard practice or not, but one of things that alarms me is how we have "outsorced" prisioner detention to contries known for torutre. it seems like that is a really shady way to wash our own hands of the responsibility of what happens to people while in detention.

[Ducrappy]

I just love it when John and Ben go at each other. Its very entertaining.

[odduc]

Ben, you are once again missing my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shall say NO MORE. You just can't see beyond your own delusional left-wing psycho-babble. Seriously, don't try and over-analyze any of my statements. I don't have some sort of hidden agenda. I speak and write in plain, simple English, it's not my problem if you can't understand it.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by odduc
Ben, you are once again missing my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shall say NO MORE. You just can't see beyond your own delusional left-wing psycho-babble. Seriously, don't try and over-analyze any of my statements. I don't have some sort of hidden agenda. I speak and write in plain, simple English, it's not my problem if you can't understand it.

We get your point. "Amnesty International has a hard-on for the US and doesn't investigate other countries' human rights violations".

Of course, that's entirely made up, as has been pointed out to you several times in this thread. With factual evidence of AI condemning other countries' human rights violations.

Do you have facts to back up your point? Oh wait, I forgot, "that won't do any good". Yeah, but ranting and raving about shit you don't have a clue about accomplishes so much.

[benVFR]

Yah Odduc, you are smoking crack, go read the report.

I am having a hard time believing you didn't get your information hook line and sinker from some neo-con talk show or something.

READ the report. There are lots of human rights violations all over the world, they are reporting them equally for all countries.

Giving the US a glowing report would be LIEING. And it would be unfair to the rest of the world. Bush, Ashcroft, etc.. would even admit that we have taken a step back from human rights in the interest of security.

I am not naive here, I know there are benefits to what we're doing, but to claim there are not risks as well are ignorant. The Supreme Court and lots of US citizens both conservative, moderate, and liberal are concerned about these issues.

If you were Chinese would you say Amnesty Internatiol hates China because they mention that tens of thousands of people were executed for dubious reasons? Or that they imprisoned people for trying to protest when they were mass evicted from their towns? Is that anti-China? Or is it just telling the truth?

I swear some of the conservatives I've talked to sound like they would have fit right into the Hitler youth, I've had people tell me right to my face that it's perfectly fine to kill Muslims as long as it gets the US what we want. It's NOT! We are supposed to better then the rest of the world!

[odduc]

Hey honklfuk.........

[benVFR]

I haven't done anything for this group in 10-15 years but your hatred and misguided anger has motivated me.

I'll make sure to make a donation and/or donate some of my time.

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
We get your point. "Amnesty International has a hard-on for the US and doesn't investigate other countries' human rights violations".

Of course, that's entirely made up, as has been pointed out to you several times in this thread. With factual evidence of AI condemning other countries' human rights violations.

Do you have facts to back up your point? Oh wait, I forgot, "that won't do any good". Yeah, but ranting and raving about shit you don't have a clue about accomplishes so much.

-sedition

It amazes me that you guys can defend AI. . You realy think our detaining the scumbags in Gitmo equals Russian prisons or China? Do you think a ChiCom General would go on TV and say how they investigated the abuse of a "bible or a Koran" or anyone elses holy book? Shit,they would use it to beat them in to confessing to something.
You want see abuse go look at our regular prisons and the abuse prisoner throw on each other and the gaurds there.
Of course that is just my opinion.

Lee

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by Leebo
It amazes me that you guys can defend AI. . You realy think our detaining the scumbags in Gitmo equals Russian prisons or China? Do you think a ChiCom General would go on TV and say how they investigated the abuse of a "bible or a Koran" or anyone elses holy book? Shit,they would use it to beat them in to confessing to something.
You want see abuse go look at our regular prisons and the abuse prisoner throw on each other and the gaurds there.
Of course that is just my opinion.

Lee

Lee, we have to be mindful to not mix-up a critque of consistence in reporting with a defense of AI. What the US has done in Cuba, Iraq, and Afghanstan is bad shit, but it pales in comparision to what happens eslewhere in the world (China, for example). However, all that the AI "defense team" was doing is saying that AI calls 'bullshit' when it see's bullshit. Sometimes it's in China, sometimes in Russia, now it just happens to be in the USA. In each case, AI also calls bullshit on the 'little' things China and other countries do that would be comparble to the US defacing the Koran.

[Honclfibr]

Defend? AI is on trial? For what, championing human rights?

This whole thread just blows my mind. I grew up in the church, giving time and money to programs like amnesty international and UNICEF. Their programs ease the suffering for millions of people worldwide (UNICEF with hunger relief, AI with legal representation for refugees), and they do it without violence, without alterior motive, without any downside that I could possibly fathom. In my 24 years I've never heard anyone say a single thing bad about these organizations, the people who work for them do God's work in my eyes and that is coming from someone who is not particulary religious.

Next you're going to tell me that Habitat for Humanity is evil?

I tell you, this makes me angry more than anything I can remember. You people who are denouncing AI, who the fuck do you think you are? Seriously, what the hell have you done in your life that you consider yourself noble enough to spit on the kind of organization AI has always strived to be?

I'm not in favor of the Iraq war, but I'll never spit on a soldier. Don't spit on those who give charity, it's obscene.