[RandyO]

OK, I can talk about it now, it's officially public knowledge

a private company just purchased a large parcel of land within ½ mile of my house, they are proposing a special op military trainig center one area will have a bed & breakfast type housing complex for clients, a retail equipment outlet, offices etc, in a separate adjacent location they propose firing ranges (one will be 800m) and military training facilities, they will offer 24/365 training

at least I get more say than the average person about what goes on, I am on the local Zoning Board and they have to come before us as well as out local Planning Board for approvals

[xvrider]

Kinda cool..But a bit scary @ the same time...

[bentbryan]

Facking kewl!!!!

[RandyO]

they made a presentation at a public meeting tonite, clients they are courting are the Navy (seals) Army (special ops) FBI tactical units, and Canadian military weapons would be limited to 50 cal. potential range 6500meters (did I say i live within a half mile) they will use "training" grenades that just make a big bang and don't throw schrapnel, and they would use c4 to tech medhods of doing things like "blowing doors"

they would expect 1500-1800 "clients" a year

what scares me the most is a caveat in NH law, once they get thier foot in the door, we would not be able to limit expanded use and new bigger bang weapon technologies, it's going to be like living on the outskirts of Bagdad

but being a conspircy theorist, I thinking more of an international mercenary training facility, everybodies money will be green

[JeffL]

That seems like a terrible idea.

I guess if you're willing to whore your town out for some revenue though, go for it.

Or........would there be no monetary benefit to the town, in which case you guys get...........increased traffic, get to listen to the sound of small weapons fire and explosions, and.........thats about it?

[sandman]

who are they?

do you have a company name and or names of key personal?

Originally posted by RandyO
they made a presentation at a public meeting tonite, clients they are courting are the Navy (seals) Army (special ops) FBI tactical units, and Canadian military weapons would be limited to 50 cal. potential range 6500meters (did I say i live within a half mile) they will use "training" grenades that just make a big bang and don't throw schrapnel, and they would use c4 to tech medhods of doing things like "blowing doors"

they would expect 1500-1800 "clients" a year

what scares me the most is a caveat in NH law, once they get thier foot in the door, we would not be able to limit expanded use and new bigger bang weapon technologies, it's going to be like living on the outskirts of Bagdad

but being a conspircy theorist, I thinking more of an international mercenary training facility, everybodies money will be green

[RandyO]

Originally posted by JeffL
That seems like a terrible idea.

I guess if you're willing to whore your town out for some revenue though, go for it.

Or........would there be no monetary benefit to the town, in which case you guys get...........increased traffic, get to listen to the sound of small weapons fire and explosions, and.........thats about it?

It's not quite that simple, as a ZBA member, we have to uphold the town zoning, if they can demonstrate that what they are doing is an allowed use we have to approve it.

monetary benefit to the town .... oh yea, what they are proposing is not an inexpensive facility, they would become one of the largest taxpayers in town (NH municipal revinues are property tax based) and would require almost no service, certainly won't be putting kids in the schools

I don't see a sustantial increase in traffic

my problems are noise and the affect it will have on our local PD.

the site they have chosen is going to be easier to abate noise than most sites, they chose it cause of it's isolated topography & access

thye would choose a site further ut in the boonies, but nearby access to airports is a requirement..... they didn't mention a helipad on the side, but helecopters were mentioned in training excersizes

[MissTwisties]

I lived on a military base a few years ago, I was about that distance (half a mile) from the weapon training range, and I don't remember the noise, except maybe when they were "bombing" in the sand pits...helicopters make lot of noise tho...

[RandyO]

Originally posted by sandman
who are they?

do you have a company name and or names of key personal?

Ya, I'll have to get it, I wasn't paying much attention to actual names at the beginning of the presentation, I get the impression that a couple of retired seals have formed a corporation and with the homeland security act, are going after lucrative military contracts. the nearest training facility of this type is in North Carolina, and they talked abount a very similar facility in Alabama, I wonder if I can fanagle a paid junket

[hessogood]

Can we get drunk and go play on their obsticle course?

[sandman]

i don't know how big it's going to be, but there are similar facilities currently located in southern nh.

find out there info and either post it up or pm it to me.

Originally posted by RandyO
Ya, I'll have to get it, I wasn't paying much attention to actual names at the beginning of the presentation, I get the impression that a couple of retired seals have formed a corporation and with the homeland security act, are going after lucrative military contracts. the nearest training facility of this type is in North Carolina, and they talked abount a very similar facility in Alabama, I wonder if I can fanagle a paid junket

[ChrisNoF4i]

Originally posted by sandman
i don't know how big it's going to be, but there are similar facilities currently located in southern nh.

find out there info and either post it up or pm it to me.

Where can I read more about this pending venture?

[RandyO]

Originally posted by sandman
i don't know how big it's going to be, but there are similar facilities currently located in southern nh.

find out there info and either post it up or pm it to me.

they talked about the one in Epping, I guess doesn't compare cause it's very limited in weapontry and usable land.

[RandyO]

this is what was posted on the planning board agenda

Preliminary Conceptual Site Plan Review By: NATL "North American Training Lodge" (Tax Map R58, Lot 11 and Tax Map R65, Lot 2); Property known as Aiken Road; to develop and operate a Homeland Defense Training and Shooting Facility.

[neuthunder]

Originally posted by hessogood
Can we get drunk and go play on their obsticle course?

[Dianne]

Shooting range proposed for Farmington

By AARON SANBORN
Democrat Staff Writer


FARMINGTON — A large shooting range and defense training facility encompassing nearly 175 acres has been proposed for a site off Aiken Road.

At Tuesday night's Planning Board meeting the North American Training Lodge, a N.H. based business, presented the board with a preliminary conceptual site plan to develop and operate a Homeland Defense Training and Shooting Facility on Aiken Road, a Class VI road located off Ridge Road.

According to lodge President William Gifford, a Rye resident, the facility would be open to Navy Seal teams and other U.S. forces that have the need for four-season training. The facility would also be open to federal and local law enforcement agencies.

"There is not a facility like this in the Northeast," Gifford said. "The closest one to us is in North Carolina."

The facility would comprise a 139-acre shooting range and 35 acres of offices, educational rooms, equipment storage, and lodging for any units conducting training.

The facility would not be open to the public, but Gifford said he may open up the facility for occasional community days; the facility is mostly meant for the training of U.S. forces.

In addition to the shooting of guns on the range, the facility would also be used for special training operations that would involve the use of explosives. Gifford said the explosives wouldn't be anything too powerful, just strong enough to blow out doors.

Members of the Planning Board had numerous questions and concerns about the facility, many pertaining to public safety, noise and location of the site. Gifford said the nearest house to the facility is 2,350 feet away. However, members of the board were concerned about the safety of the many hunters who use the area. Gifford said the public would need to be educated and warning signs would have to be posted.

Gifford noted the individuals shooting the guns would be professionals, which should also help with safety.

"We are not talking about the average person off the street shooting guns," Gifford said. "We are talking about people who do this for a living."

Planning Board member Jim Horgan was the first individual to bring up the subject of noise, but it was a recurring theme throughout the meeting. Gifford said there would be some noise, but he believes most of it would be mitigated by the hills in the area.

"I don't deny that there's going to be some noise. That's a reality," Gifford said. "But there's noise in the areas of airports, drag strips and Lee Speedway."

Gifford's wife, Rebecca, added that many people who live in these areas for a long period of time usually get used to the noise.

Paul Parker, the selectmen's representative to the Planning Board, was concerned about the proposed location of the facility.

"I am very concerned that the facility would be located in an agricultural and residential zone as opposed to a commercial and industrial zone," Parker said.

Gifford told the board he looked at commercial and industrial zones first but couldn't find a piece of land available that would suit the facility.

"We looked for 2 years before we decided on this lot. It took a lot of work to get to this point," Gifford said.

"We looked at 40 pieces of property and this one fits the bill because of its topography and location in relation to Pease, Manchester and Boston."

Since this was only a conceptual site plan no decisions were made about the future of the facility. Planning Board Chairman Charlie King told Gifford the plan would need to go before the Zoning Board of Adjustment for some zoning exemptions before a formal application was submitted.

[RandyO]

2350 feet away might be the nearest house on the road that it's proposed on, I live on parallel road and my house is about 2300± the neighbors across the street are set back from road and are within 1500 feet of the proposed facility

right now my biggest concern is helecopter noise

[legalspeed]

Helicopter?

I'm pretty sure the 50 cal will drown out any helicopter.

You have to be nuts to want that in your back yard.

[bbhzx10]

.50 isn't very loud. .50BMg is a very different story, kinda like a symphony!

[RandyO]

Originally posted by legalspeed
Helicopter?

I'm pretty sure the 50 cal will drown out any helicopter.

You have to be nuts to want that in your back yard.

I don't want it in my back yard but what difference that make, what I want

[RandyO]

Thursday, August 4, 2005
Obstacles could be ahead for proposed Farmington gun range

By AARON SANBORN
Democrat Staff Writer


FARMINGTON — A large shooting range and defense training facility proposed off Aiken Road must overcome a few obstacles before a formal application can be submitted to the Planning Board.

"This is by no means a done deal," said Paul Esswein, director of planning and community development. "It's definitely an unique situation."

The facility was proposed at Tuesday night's Planning Board when William Gifford, president of North American Training Lodge, presented the board with a conceptual site plan to construct a nonpublic Homeland Defense Training and Shooting Facility that would allow U.S. forces and law enforcement to have access to four-season training.

The site, located beyond the end of the graded portion of Aiken Road, would encompass nearly 175 acres and include indoor and outdoor shooting ranges, offices, educational rooms, equipment storage, and lodging for any units conducting training.

Gifford said the facility is designed to provide U.S. forces and law enforcement with a place to sharpen their skills and help to protect homeland security.

"We want to support the people who are protecting us and help to prevent another 9/11 or worse," Gifford said.

The proposal raised many questions at Tuesday night's Planning Board Meeting as members asked questions about noise, safety and zoning — issues that may prove to be obstacles for the facility.

"I understood all the concerns, they were to be expected," Gifford said. "I thought it was a well run meeting and I was glad for the questions asked."

Zoning would likely be the biggest hurdle the facility would have to clear as the location of the site falls under what the town zoning ordinance calls an Agricultural Residential District, which has a stated purpose "to provide areas in the town that foster a 'working rural' environment and preserve the potential for farming and farmland soils. Other permitted uses shall not impede, restrict, prohibit, or render impractical the practice of permitted agricultural activities."

Gifford told the Planning Board Tuesday that he had looked at commercial and industrial zones first but couldn't find a suitable piece of land. After 2 years of looking at property, Gifford decided on the Aiken Road site because of its topography and location in relation to transportation from Pease, Concord, Manchester and Boston.

"You can put a facility in the middle of nowhere in Maine, but who's going to go there?" Gifford said.

According to Esswein an exception would need to be granted by the Zoning Board of Adjustment before a formal application could come before the Planning Board.

The town zoning ordinance lists a series of standards that must be met in order for a special exception to be granted and two of those standards include that "no hazard shall be created to the public or adjacent property on account of potential fire explosion or release of toxic materials" and "no detriment to property values shall be created in the vicinity or change in the essential characteristics of any area including residential neighbors or business and industrial districts on account of the location or scale of buildings and other structures, parking areas, accessways, odor, smoke, gas, dust, or other pollutant, noise, glare, heat, vibration, or unsightly outdoor storage of equipment or other materials."

Gifford has not yet set a date to meet with the ZBA. Esswein said if the exception isn't granted by the ZBA it would be a major setback that could possibly stop the proposal from going any further. Gifford could appeal any decision made by the ZBA to the Board of Selectmen but Esswein said selectmen would most likely stand behind the ZBA's decision.

Even though it's unclear what the future holds for the proposal, Gifford says he believes in what he's doing and looks forward to working with the town government and residents to establish the facility.

So far, reaction to the proposal by nearby residents has been calm as those spoken to seem curious and unready to pass judgment.

"I found it rather astounding," said John Wingate, who lives on Meaderboro Road. "I would imagine that it would create a considerable amount of noise that would disrupt the neighborhood."

A neighbor to the area on Aiken Road who didn't want to be named said he lives on Ridge Road and if the facility is set up right the noise shouldn't effect the residents of Ridge Road too much. He said because the site would be in a valley protected by hills, the noise may be muted.

"I know the area well because I hunt it quite a bit," he said. "It would be located below me so I would be affected somewhat but the people on the side of the property towards Ten Rod Road may hear it."

Gifford said the rolling hills topography of Farmington should help to ease the noise as it has been proving to do so at other similar facilities.

Another abutter to the land, Clarence Young Sr. who owns property on Aiken Road, didn't wish to discuss the subject in much detail calling it nothing more than a rumor at this point.

"What other people do with their property has no connection to me," Young said.

Ten Rod Road resident Ernest Richards also didn't want to discuss the subject in much detail saying it was too early to tell what kind of effect this facility would have on the neighborhood but did mention that there were a lot of kids and families in the area.

One local organization that would like to see the facility come to town is the Police Department. Chief Scott Roberge said Gifford spoke to him about the facility and what he hopes to accomplish with it.

"If the facility is passed it would benefit my agency. The different type of equipment he's proposing would be beneficial for training," Roberge said. "This would be quite the undertaking and a lot of questions still need to be answered, like noise and residential safety."

Roberge said the department would only use the facility for shooting and that the utilization of the facility would allow them to train at a reasonable cost and allow them to train during the winter months. Currently the department is required to train with firearms at least three times a year, but usually goes beyond those requirements.

Gifford said he would also like to make the facility available to other police departments in the area.

[JeffL]

Personally I think "Homeland Security" is really a bunch of bullshit.

I'm far from some conspiracy theorist, but really how much safer are we now than we were on September 12th, 2001? Other than having a color system similar to a weather report pollen count, probably not much of a difference.

[ssg]

Originally posted by JeffL
Personally I think "Homeland Security" is really a bunch of bullshit.

I'm far from some conspiracy theorist, but really how much safer are we now than we were on September 12th, 2001? Other than having a color system similar to a weather report pollen count, probably not much of a difference.

No shit, you know how many times I've run my A/C with closed windows because of a bombing somewhere? wtf!

I'd feel safer if they changed the rating scale to something more like a UV index.

[ChrisNoF4i]

Originally posted by RandyO
"We want to support the people who are protecting us and help to prevent another 9/11 or worse," Gifford said.

I can't believe that ass-bag actually said that. He is one pathetic automaton.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by somestrangeguy
No shit, you know how many times I've run my A/C with closed windows because of a bombing somewhere? wtf!

I'd feel safer if they changed the rating scale to something more like a UV index.

How about a straight percentage, like they do with precipitation? "Looks like the CIA is predicting a 30% chance of terrorism in my area today, guess I'd better pack a gas mask". We could go all out, put a terrorman on the evening news who will point to a map with pictures of mushroom clouds and subway explosions and such, then bitch at him from our couch when he's wrong about pending terrorist attacks.