[JeffL]

I call, show your cards:

[Nikon]

[TheIglu]

So what logic drink are we having tonight?

Is it nicknamed the "Clinton Scapegoat"?

I still have yet to link a blowjob to terrorism or war.

I bet W gets laid ONCE in a while by the first lady, right? FUCKING HANG HIM!!!!!

The next administration is going to be ALL about blaming him going hunting with his dog on the shit of the future.

How about this. Let's ask Colin Powell what he thinks. He was the commander of the last Iraq war, wasn't he? And a chosen member of the president's cabinet? Oh wait, he knows more and disagrees with something that warmongers want! Get rid of him!!!

I have yet to find something that he said that doesn't make sense. I recently watched a PBS documentary on how the administration reacted to the 9/11 incidents and how the Iraq war was formed. Kinda of odd that the leader of the military had to be convinced over a 6 mont period that the war in Iraq was going to happen (by Rumsfeld).

I would encourage anyone here to give it a view. While it's long (2 hoursI think), it was very informative, had no siding whatsoever and presented straight facts, quotes and records, not opinion or editorial.

[a13x]

Nikon I see your Adam Baldwin and raise you a Jayne Cobb.

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by TheIglu

I would encourage anyone here to give it a view. While it's long (2 hoursI think), it was very informative, had no siding whatsoever and presented straight facts, quotes and records, not opinion or editorial.

Is that "The Dark Side"? I wanted to catch it but missed it. Interested in seeing what insight it provides...

[bigred875]

Originally posted by benVFR
BTW one more thing... if you think I'm trolling.

The Clinton/Cigar/Monica argument for every failing of this Administration is the lamest most "Dee Dee Dee" thing you could possibly say.

Regardless of anything Clinton may have caused regarding Terrorism, and those are all things you have the burden to prove, Clinton is not the US President. Nothing Clinton did can be undone, Clinton does not run this country. Anything he did is not an excuse for the current Administrations problems or ability/lack of ability to get the job done.

Bringing up Clinton is a knee-jerk reaction that can never solve any problems. How would you like it if Bush got up everytime something went wrong and said, "But Clinton got a Blow-Job!" You sound just as stupid as he would if he said that!

Even if I agree with you and blame everything, even the rain, on Clinton, it will never solve any problems.

i never once said anything about the monica stuff...i could careless. You guys like to think that is the only arguement against Clinton...clearly it isnt. I would prefer to remove that aspect of his presidency...he destroyed our economy and crippled the military...amoung other things..that is the reality of it and we are paying for it now...that is how it works. You never see the effects of an administration until after they left office...it just does not move that fast. You can stick you fingers in your ears and yell LALALALALA it is big bad bushes fault all you want but it doesnt change the fact the he left the country a mess and W has been picking up the pieces ever since. While W may not have made the best choices he is STILL a much better president then Clinton was...it is funny how much we forget.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by benVFR
Well Al3x, if you agree with that you are a pinko-commie-terrorist-sympathising-USA-hating whatever with the rest of us.

There can be no contradiction. There is no gray, there is no in between. There is good, and there is evil. There is no in between. We are good because we say so. Anyone in the ROTW is evil because we say so.

We are the leaders of the world, the best, the most right, etc.. because we have the power. Our soldiers can do what they want because we are the USA. We cannot be questioned.

To deny this is to not be patriotic and to be a part of the problem.

maybe you shoudl listen to yourself a little...if there is no gray then take your head out of the sand and recognzie there is a problem and not all of it is W faults...

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by bigred875
i never once said anything about the monica stuff...i could careless. You guys like to think that is the only arguement against Clinton...clearly it isnt. I would prefer to remove that aspect of his presidency...he destroyed our economy and crippled the military...amoung other things..that is the reality of it and we are paying for it now...that is how it works. You never see the effects of an administration until after they left office...it just does not move that fast. You can stick you fingers in your ears and yell LALALALALA it is big bad bushes fault all you want but it doesnt change the fact the he left the country a mess and W has been picking up the pieces ever since. While W may not have made the best choices he is STILL a much better president then Clinton was...it is funny how much we forget.

It's true. While Clinton balanced the budget, Bush made it better. What ever happened to republicans spending LESS?

Why don't you define "Destroyed our economy".

Bush was handed nearly the strongest economy in history.

[bigred875]

First off do you people ealize that we are talking about an approximately 30 square miles in Iraq that is still hostile....so a country the size of CA there is a war in a section about the size of Boston....a breeding gound? please..

"(1) Osama and crew were responsible for 9/11." ya and? is osama the only terrorist in the world?

"(2) Sadam had nothing to do with it." for 9/11 no shit...NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT HE DID...this argument has been fabricated by the left....if you disagree then provide some sort of proof...I dont want to hear..well everyone thinkis that because it is crap..no one i know does

"(3) Bush claimed Sadam had WMD's and was part of the anti-USA terror network. Sadam was no nice guy, but IRAQ posed *no threat* to the US. " Bush claimed this after SEVERAL reliable sources told him there was...it would have been irresponsible for him not to do anything.

"(meanwhile, Osama is still running around, and we never even bothered to check-out Saudi Arabia, where 15 of the 9/11 highjackers were from)" maybe but the people who organized it are not there...why waste time on the foot soldiers?

"(4) We invade IRAQ. The US thinks it is going to be a "quick war", a HUGE mistake." agreed however this is STILL a short war.. the american ADD epidemic is outstanding

"(5) All hell breaks loose in IRAQ. " not even close

"(5)(a) " that is a worst case scenario and not very likely at all...

"(5)(b)" well it has already started a trend for the better in that area... and you people keep propping OBL up like a some surreal god all powerful being. Now I agree that we should have taken him out when we had the chance but he is only 1 person and not nearly as powerful as he was before...

"(6) Clinton: if you are going to attribute the fault of 9/11 and current war to the previous administration's policies, please follow that line of reasoning to its bitter end: Republican abministrations put both Sadam and Osama into power. Logic hurts. " I am not sure I follow you..and you taking about Bush I? if so then your logic is clouded by reality. there was a time when germany was our enemy...should it stay that way? Things change in the world and presidents need align themselves with people that have similar interests at that time. Hind sight is always 20/20...but you cannot go back in history... But I'll say it again...atleast the republican presidents acknowledge the problems and take action....unlike Clinton

[bigred875]

Originally posted by TheIglu
It's true. While Clinton balanced the budget, Bush made it better. What ever happened to republicans spending LESS?

Why don't you define "Destroyed our economy".

Bush was handed nearly the strongest economy in history.

ya that philosophy worked great when he handed W the recession... this is a really easy arguement to win Clay...just take a look at the graphs. the economy is growing at a rate faster then when regan was in office...check out the jobless claims

less spending..ya thats fair with all of the shit W was put on his plate...talk about knee-jerk response...the economy is in great shape and you come with this tired arguement? you can do better then that..

Destroyed economy...easy...how about the tech bubble? How was that for our economy....Clinton sat there and did nothing but watch it unfold because he knew it would not really effect us until after he left...

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by bigred875
ya that philosophy worked great when he handed W the recession... this is a really easy arguement to win Clay...just take a look at the graphs. the economy is growing at a rate faster then when regan was in office...check out the jobless claims

less spending..ya thats fair with all of the shit W was put on his plate...talk about knee-jerk response...the economy is in great shape and you come with this tired arguement? you can do better then that..

Destroyed economy...easy...how about the tech bubble? How was that for our economy....Clinton sat there and did nothing but watch it unfold because he knew it would not really effect us until after he left...

I know I can do better. I'm runnin on 2 hours sleep. My game has been downgraded from B to some letter that was removed from the Alphabet way back in the day. I'll get all refreshed and come back with some Sedition like tidal wave of hurt.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Is that "The Dark Side"? I wanted to catch it but missed it. Interested in seeing what insight it provides...

I'm not sure really. It had just started when I sat down and since there is no commercials on PBS they really didn't plug it.

[highsider]

Do you guys have any pizza?

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by highsider
Do you guys have any pizza?

DAS UN FIERSHULTZ!

Give me your motard and I give you a small Red Baron deep dish pepperoni pizza that is in my freeza!

[benVFR]

At the moment I can't wait to read this new book that just came out by one of the reporters from the Wall Street Journal. It's called "The 1% Doctrine" by Richard Suskind.

Apparently George Tenet is one of the key people who contributed to the book, and the Administration has not really tried to deny much of anything in the book. Fox News supposedly even agreed with it.

The heart of the whole matter that has not been explained to the public until now is apparently this Administration believes that when it comes to Terror we must act on any event we believe has a 1% or greater chance of happening. This Doctrine is apparently the work of Dick Cheney, not George Bush.

Disagreeing over whether a 1% chance of a terrorist event is a good enough justification for the choices made by the Administration would seem to be the heart of this disagreement.

It's all about the tradeoff over what causes more harm:

a) To not respond to events which have a 1% or other small chance of occuring

b) To respond to everything, possibly causing more ill will against the US and increasing the chance of future attacks.

Sounds like a great book... if anyone here can still read a whole book it might be worth checking out.

[bnstruck2]

Originally posted by bigred875
ya that philosophy worked great when he handed W the recession... this is a really easy arguement to win Clay...just take a look at the graphs. the economy is growing at a rate faster then when regan was in office...check out the jobless claims

Destroyed economy...easy...how about the tech bubble? How was that for our economy....Clinton sat there and did nothing but watch it unfold because he knew it would not really effect us until after he left...

It was actually Reagan who left the economy in recession when he left office not Clinton. Although there was an economic down turn it was not a recession. Clinton also left with a balanced budget something the Reagan can never even come close to claiming.

Again while we are on Reagan he spent quite a bit of government money bailing out the Savings and Loans back in the 80's. Clinton left the techs alone and let the economy sort them out in a capitalist manner without government intervention, and the left wingers are called the commies.

I must state again the Clinton did not gut the military as has been stated here. The cuts in military spending occured while the Republican controlled houses of congress were creating the budgets and appropriating the spending.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by bnstruck2
It was actually Reagan who left the economy in recession when he left office not Clinton. Although there was an economic down turn it was not a recession. Clinton also left with a balanced budget something the Reagan can never even come close to claiming.

Again while we are on Reagan he spent quite a bit of government money bailing out the Savings and Loans back in the 80's. Clinton left the techs alone and let the economy sort them out in a capitalist manner without government intervention, and the left wingers are called the commies.

I must state again the Clinton did not gut the military as has been stated here. The cuts in military spending occured while the Republican controlled houses of congress were creating the budgets and appropriating the spending.

I never said reagan didnt...the economy naturally fluctuates and was in a down swing as he left office then Bush I took office and straightened it out...funny how you skipped over him...and Clinton most certainly did leave the economy in a recession...if you cannot admit that fact that I will not bother responding to the rest of your post

[benVFR]

That is BS - Bush Jr. did have a good economy when he started... if only for about the first year.

But that doesn't really matter anyway. I don't think Clinton or Bush is responsible for that recession in late 01 -> 03.

The horribly idiotic VC firms that fueled the internet "boom" are responsible for that recession IMO.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by benVFR
That is BS - Bush Jr. did have a good economy when he started... if only for about the first year.

But that doesn't really matter anyway. I don't think Clinton or Bush is responsible for that recession in late 01 -> 03.

The horribly idiotic VC firms that fueled the internet "boom" are responsible for that recession IMO.

VC firms?

[benVFR]

Venture Capital....

IMO the whole Internet Boom stock speculation is on par with the 1920s speculation and the start of the great depression.

One of the largest periods of investor stupidity in our history. We're lucky the recovery was so smooth.

I don't think there was anything Clinton or Bush could have done to stop that recession from happening.

I worked for a series of companys that were getting money... most made a real product. But you didn't have to look far to see companies that were total scams taking millions in investments.. with very little oversight.

We actually had a VC who had invested in our company walking around saying, "All my companies sell for billions!"

Damn guy kept his entire fortune too. He was smarter then most.

[bnstruck2]

Originally posted by bigred875
I never said reagan didnt...the economy naturally fluctuates and was in a down swing as he left office then Bush I took office and straightened it out...funny how you skipped over him...and Clinton most certainly did leave the economy in a recession...if you cannot admit that fact that I will not bother responding to the rest of your post

The years of the recession in the United States actually occured during 2002 and 2003. The events of September 11th push the economic slowdown to a recession. So the fact is Clinton did not leave the country in a recession. So you are now free to comment on the rest of my post.

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by highsider
Do you guys have any pizza?

Hey, you want in on this Hawaiian?!!

[Nikon]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Hey, you want in on this Hawaiian?!!

[Doc]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Two of our guys are butchered like animals . Where's all these great organizations like Amnesty International?

Oh that's right! They're still worried about how we treat prisoners down in Gitmo!

Where do I sign up to go kill goat-herding rag heads for six months?

I can get you in but it will be for 12 to 18 months.

Unless you want to join the Jarheads (they only go for 6 months)

Or you can make BIG bucks and go join Blackwater.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by benVFR
Venture Capital....

IMO the whole Internet Boom stock speculation is on par with the 1920s speculation and the start of the great depression.

One of the largest periods of investor stupidity in our history. We're lucky the recovery was so smooth.

I don't think there was anything Clinton or Bush could have done to stop that recession from happening.

I worked for a series of companys that were getting money... most made a real product. But you didn't have to look far to see companies that were total scams taking millions in investments.. with very little oversight.

We actually had a VC who had invested in our company walking around saying, "All my companies sell for billions!"

Damn guy kept his entire fortune too. He was smarter then most.

ya i agree with that...but I still like to throw that in there because you bush haters like to pic every thing on Bush..lol I was right in the middle of it in RTP when i burst...a lot of people lost a lot of money...and jobs... me as well I have options at like $75-$95 and my co stock hovers in the teens...