[benVFR]

Look at indicators besides multinational companies making use of cheap labor in Latin America and you'll see most of those countries have not joined the global economies.

They are really not driving their own economic growth. Nothing we are doing to build factories there is going to elevate their economies to the point where the cheap labor won't be so cheap anymore.

It's not just labor costs, it's about tax cuts for the companies, lax environmental, human rights, and labor laws etc, etc, etc.. It's all about the money.

If they could get the labor cheap in the US they would, it's closer to home and US workers are far far more productive.

[richw]

Mexico factories are last decade's news.

China and China and China some more.... Maybe throw in Vietnam

Even Tiawan and Korea are too expensive for investment. Latin American factories are being shutdown in favor of China imports.

There are Immense factories in Tiawan shutdown that used to make electronics in favor of PR China new factories.

There is still a sucking sound but its from the East. I will be there in January selling you guys out.

Sorry but its just business.

[capt1014]

Originally posted by chr|s sedition
Simple. Becuase this is not Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, or Burma. Freedom of speach is essentially what seperates the USA from dictatorships. It is what is essentially American, and a basic tenet of justice and equality. You should tolerate (not to be confused with being 'happy' about something. One 'tolerates' a novicaine shot at the dentist, but it is not something one is 'happy' about) becuase if American citizens (or the government) start limiting freedom of speach, then something *much* more fundamental to American culture and government has been compromised than a spanish version of the national anthem.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct, it is none of those aforementioned.

BULLSHIT that I should have to tolerate ANYTHING!
If I feel that anything is unjust or of no value or is not concurrent with the Bill of Rights or the Constitution I DO NOT have to tolerate it. I don't have to tolerate anything, that is makes this country GREAT.

And I do not have to tolerate a change to the Anthem of this country that I believe in so much that I have a hard time hold tears back everytime I hear it.

Simply put, the anthem is a staple of what America is and what I believe America is, it comes from the roots of this country.

The Constitution, Bill of Rights, National Anthem, American Flag or any other item that is the basis of this country should not be changed to accomidate a mass that can not understand this countries language.

The Bill of Rights does not change to accomidate one section of people it changes for the better of the whole, the better of America. As one nation. Trying to change the anthem so that someone can better understand it is seperatism, it is make accomidations for one section of this country. They who what to change it should spend more of thier time and effort understanding it in the language it was written!

And what Truely seperates us is that fact that we don't have to tolerate anything we don't want to!

At the very end of this you telling me that I have to or should tolerate something I don't believe in does not sound like democracy, sounds like dictatorship.

[benVFR]

Please please quote us the sections in the constitution, bill of rights, etc.. that bar someone making a Spanish language song praising the United States.

Also please give us even one iota of proof that this song represents any real effort to change the national anthem. Nothing you've posted so far has shown any proof of anything other then some people writing a song in Spanish.

Maybe they don't understand they have basically been singled out as a "bad" race or group of people and this is just making them look worse but the whole point of this song was for them to try and repair their reputation to prove to the rest of us that they are patriotic.

Of course I am not sure why their reputation needs to be repaired in the first place. Whether or not they are here legally or illegally there is just about no proof that Latin American immigrants are anything but hard workers. They come here to work, if they get citizenship they continue to work hard and assimilate and become quite successful. In another generation you're going to see lots of businesses owned by Latin American immigrants IMO. You'll also see tons of them speaking English. The only reason you're not seeing it now is there are so many of them and there is always a fresh supply coming into the country.

Whether they are coming here illegally or legally they are not going to go away so you might as well just deal with it. If we lock down the borders there is just going to be a massive outcry from businesses and maybe a dip in the economy and then we'll start letting them in legally.

Who is worse, the immigrants coming in and working hard at low paying jobs, or the Americans who are sitting home collecting welfare because they were too stupid to take advantage of the educational opportunity they were given by being born here and yet are too good to work the jobs the immigrants are filling?

[capt1014]

Originally posted by benVFR
Please please quote us the sections in the constitution, bill of rights, etc.. that bar someone making a Spanish language song praising the United States.

Reread the post I didn't say that there was anything in the documents saying that you can't sing the anthem in Spanish

Once again Reread the post.

Here is a quote form the article that you might want to be made aware of.

"Even our Spanish media are saying, 'Why are we doing this, what are you trying to do?' " said Pedro Biaggi, the morning host with El Zol (99.1 FM), the most popular Hispanic radio station in the Washington area. "It's not for us to be going around singing the national anthem in Spanish. . . . We don't want to impose, we don't own the place. . . . We want to be accepted."

If you want to be accepted then don't you think that you'll want to fit in.
It is the same everywhere you go in society. If you do things that set yourself apart form the mass then you will not be accepted.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by capt1014
It is the same everywhere you go in society. If you do things that set yourself apart form the mass then you will not be accepted.

Like...riding a motorcycle?

[benVFR]

So the state department apparently has the Star Spangled banner translated into other languages on it's website. (I can't find it)

So if that is true the government is not so bothered by the song being translated.

There was a German-language version of the SSB that was sung in the early 20th century. No one had a problem with it until WWI. We had a law banning speaking German during that war apparently, which put an end to singing the SSB in German.

In 1919 the Italian language version of the SSB was performed at Carnegie Hall. With apparently no one having a problem with it.

The SSB was first translated into Spanish in 1901. The Spanish Consulate did the translation and presented it to President McKinley so we could use it in the newly acquired territories of the Phillipines & Puerto Rico. Again no problem with it?

[capt1014]

Times are different and there appearently is a problem with it now.

[benVFR]

Ah here are the US Government's suggested translations:

State.gov (in Spanish)

[benVFR]

LOL.. you need a new fearless leader:

President Bush declared last week that the national anthem should be sung in English not Spanish, but he evidently never told his own government or campaign organizations.

The State Department posts four Spanish versions of "The Star-Spangled Banner" on its Web site, and accounts from the 2000 election suggest that the song was at times performed in Spanish at Bush campaign events. Critics even turned up one reference to Bush himself singing the anthem in Spanish on the trail, but there was no confirmation.

From:

Same paper you linked to

[chr|s sedition]

Originally posted by capt1014
At the very end of this you telling me that I have to or should tolerate something I don't believe in does not sound like democracy, sounds like dictatorship.

Telling someone they can't sing a song in spanish sounds a bit more like dictatorship than telling people to get along with each other.

[OreoGitorio]

I think it's pretty obvious the main reason why the majority of people are up in arms about this isn't becaues it's being translated, but because they're trying to CHANGE it when it's not "theirs" to change.

If you guys re-read the original article that sparked this whole thing, you'll see they even went as far as to change the title from "The Star Spangled Banner" to "Nuestro Himno" or "Our Anthem".... no, unless you're an American Citizen, it's not yours any more than the German National Anthem is mine.

Click here to listen to the NPR segment & also "Nuestro Himno".
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5369145

Like I've said, I've got no problem w/ them translating it... Just make a sincere attempt to keep as true to the current lyrics as you can. But doing this & that to change it and making an alternate version w/ a rap, in my opinion is disrespectful..... this isn't an episode of Pimp My Anthem. I'm just glad the version that NPR posted up didn't have the rap in it yet. Asside from the performers obviously taking serious "poetic justice" with the tune, I guess it sounded alright.

I just think that Latin Americans would gotten alot more respect if they translated it w/ as little changes as possible & performed it in a way that resembles how it's usually performed.

[capt1014]

Originally posted by chr|s sedition
Telling someone they can't sing a song in spanish sounds a bit more like dictatorship than telling people to get along with each other.

I said throughout the posts I don't agree with it, not that they can't.

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by capt1014
Cool on the tongue and cheek thing.

As you say that Mexico and other Latin American countries have not joined the global economy, then why do American based companies more some of there resources to Mexicoand other Latin American countries, it is not just the cut in labor costs.

I put "joined" in quotes in my response because the concept is not black and white. There are certainly viable opportunities to conduct business in pretty much any country. Some are better than others though. The countries that openly share financial data and prosecute corrupt officials attract far more investors than countries that don't. These investments create business growth and that creates jobs and people with jobs spend money which builds an economy and makes more jobs etc. Mexico has a long way to go before it's popular with mainstream investors mostly due to its corrupt government. Foriegn factories help, but it would be better for Mexico if there was more local business ownership. It's not a friendly place to try and start a business.

The people coming here want to work and would prefer to stay home with their families (for the most part). Getting here is not easy or cheap (by American standards). They typically live on a shoestring so they can send money home. The fact is, money made by illegal aliens in the US supports the Mexican economy much more than either country would like to admit. Were it to stop, I suspect the Mexican economy would collapse. I can't imagine that would be a good thing since we'd quite likely offer billions in aid. At least we get labor in return for our dollars now.

100 years ago, coming to the US was pretty easy. One just needed to buy a ticket on a steamship and arrive. The inscription on the base of the Statue of Liberty says:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

We actually meant it back then too. Not so much today. We, as Americans, are, for the most part, decendants of "wretched refuse". These days, we want to build walls to keep the wretched refuse out. Our ancestors must be rolling in their graves.

[MissTwisties]

Originally posted by benVFR
Whether or not they are here legally or illegally there is just about no proof that Latin American immigrants are anything but hard workers. They come here to work, if they get citizenship they continue to work hard and assimilate and become quite successful.

Hmm umm. NOT all of them come here to work HARD. Take Springfield for exemple. Probably 75% of them don't work. I am f*ckin sick of seeing them everywhere wondering on street corners, wearing their jeans half way down their butts, bandanas, a bazillion cheap gold chain around their necks, "fo shizzle yo mama fuck yo daddy tat's da shiznit ma bro" ghetto language crap (which by the way my daughters were advised they'd get slapped across the head if I hear them talk like that coming from school...LOL), using food stamps at the grocery to buy freakin LOBSTERS and t-bones steaks with (I am NOT kidding), they get FREE masshealth insurance, and they drive BMW's and Lexus?? WTF is WRONG with this picture? You tell me. They come in our quiet neighborhoods to steal from us, brake our car windows, and yell obscenities or drag race their riced cars passed midnight, hitting light poles and breaking them in half, then running from the scene.

Sure some of them are hard workers. Some of them are good people who just want to have a chance at a good life and they will do their part to contribute to your country. But all the others who come here only to live off your taxes dollars being on wellfare and taking FULL advantages of living for FREE, probably living even better than some of you who work hard for every dollar you earn to live a somewhat decent life? NO WAY!!

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by MissTwisties
Hmm umm. NOT all of them come here to work HARD. Take Springfield for exemple. Probably 75% of them don't work. I am f*ckin sick of seeing them everywhere wondering on street corners, wearing their jeans half way down their butts, bandanas, a bazillion cheap gold chain around their necks, "fo shizzle yo mama fuck yo daddy tat's da shiznit ma bro" ghetto language crap (which by the way my daughters were advised they'd get slapped across the head if I hear them talk like that coming from school...LOL), using food stamps at the grocery to buy freakin LOBSTERS and t-bones steaks with (I am NOT kidding), they get FREE masshealth insurance, and they drive BMW's and Lexus?? WTF is WRONG with this picture? You tell me. They come in our quiet neighborhoods to steal from us, brake our car windows, and yell obscenities or drag race their riced cars passed midnight, hitting light poles and breaking them in half, then running from the scene.

You bitch, and bitch, and then bitch some more about Springfield but you NEVER MOVE.

Most of "them" are part of "us" since they are mostly american citizens raised in non-english speaking homes. Yes, I lived in Springfield or the immediate area for 5 years. It's nothing new, and most are born here making them US citizens. Springfield wasn't nice a year ago and then got crappy, it's been a complete shithole for MANY years.

Do your kids a favor and move. I had a job offered to me there at a company I loved but would need to work in Springfield every day. No thanks, I dealt with that shithole long enough as it is.

Just be more accurate and either say you don't like people from other countries, poor people or people who speak a different language. Stereotyping isn't doing any good.

BTW V, last time I checked you were a broken english immegrant living in Springfield too. Just keep that in mind before you go labelling people around you as bad for how they talk, where they are from or where they live. There are plenty of horrible people that are doing more bad that are richer than you, me or anyone else you know. I'm sure you get pissed when people judge you for how you talk too.


Ghetto language crap? If you don't want your kids to learn/use it, don't live near the ghetto. Simple as that.

[MissTwisties]

I'm not an illegal immigrant here, so what's your point.. I'm not pointing at legal immigrants, or US citizens, I thought this thread was about illegals, people who brake all laws to come live here, then live off the government money (your money)?? If it's about legals and US citizens then I apologize and will gracefully bow out of this thread because it's not against them I have something...and you're right, bad people are everywhere, citizens, legal immigrants or not.

I've said it many times, we can't afford to move out. We don't have equity built up on this house, we're paying interests off our asses since the past 6 years, and we're bound by a "first home buyer" contract that forces us to keep this house for 10 years, or we will have to pay back closing costs and down payment back, which we didn't have to pay when we bought the house. Our neighborhood is not ghetto at all, we actually live in a nice area, but it doesn't keep the burglars and vandalism out. When my husband got a good job offer 6 years back, we had to think and move quick, didn't know anything about Springfield. We were located in Wolcott CT (nice place). Next time....we'll know ALL the right things to look for BEFORE moving to a new place. We were much younger and inexperienced at buying a house, moving to a different city, what to look for (crime rate, schools, etc. ) NOW we know and when we can actually get out of here, we'll be very carefull.

[Rick Lee]

Just to address the "lazy mexicans" comment. If you want to live the american life and don't want ot learn the National Anthem in english you are LAZY!

If you are out having a good time on St. Paddy's day sure wave an Irish flag. Hell how many are just Irish for the day because they want to belong to something? If your looking for a sympathetic ear to hear your request to become a citizen of the USA you might wanna wave the Star & Stripes.

[richw]

refuse teaming shores ya da yada

NO VACANCY

[Boss Hogg]

"The Illegal Alien Anthem" LOL!!

Legal or Illegal I do not care, Learn how to speak basic English! As alot of the people on NESR already know I suck at spelling because I have deslexia and look at all the assholes on here that make fun of people for there spelling...There will always be people who are asshole's about pointless shit, But this is not pointless..
Imagrants are ruining the economy, Paychecks get sent out of the USA to other random places and that takes money out of our system witch screw's shit up in the long run..Alot of people have lost there jobs and/or can not get jobs because of people from other parts of the world come over here and will work for $4-6 bucks an hour, This means loss of jobs!! Plus look at what happens, More imagrants enter the USA then more low income shithole's get built and bad area's grow and grow unitll a whole area of a town/city is a dump with gang's and violence....

Look at Whalom park. Whalom was a "fun park" With all sorts of rides and was a nice place untill Leominster, MA kept growing with poor income housing and more and more illegal/legal imagrants moved into the area, Now half of Leominster is poor income houseing and Whalom park got hit with it...It was shut down a while back for gang violence because no one wanted to go there anymore, The gangs and violence between people that started going to the park got to out of controll and people were affraid to even go to the park anymore...

one big reason why shit gets worse is everyone is so fucking scared to speak up about it because they think it might make them sound racist, Witch is so retarded! racism has been placed into almost every area of life now...An example:.. My friend Ron who is black gave me a ride to a party last week, Now me and him are such good friends the "N" word(Wont say it or people will probibly bitch) is not seen as a racist term with us and I say it all the time around him , it means nothing bad to him/me, We both see That word as something that should not still be a problem etc..But anyways I get the ride to the party in my town and as soon as I get in the front door one of my friends asks how I got there, I respond
" I got a ride from my friend ron"
He asks
" Whos ron, Do I know him"
And I said
"Yea I think so He's an 6 foot tall black guy"
And right after I said that my friends like
"Why did you explain who he is as a black guy, you should not do that"

Now when did it become A racist term to say the persons color to discribe who they are?? I dont get it..
my point is people should stop being so fucking affraid of words..
Look at the facts, How many white gangs are there?? Not many! Now how many "minority" gangs are there? A SHITLOAD! now that may sound racist but its not..Its the facts!

Anyway People should speak up once and a while! Speak there mind. Like someone said already in this post "Sounds like freedom of spech"............Well Freedom of spech only go's so far these days..Your not realy free to say what you think without being shit on for it. So all sides need to chill the fuck out and get along but all sides should also look at facts! If you come into my country will it change somethings for the worse? or for the better? Personaly I think its for the worse to bring more and more people into the USA...But if you end up here 1. Respect our laws 2. Respect our Ideals 3.LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH 4. Do it legaly...

NOW THATS A RANT!!! How bored was I when I wrote this?? VERY Bored but please take into consideration I suck at spelling and Explaining shit the write way, So if anything sounds a little bit stupid or rasict, I prob wrote it wrong and sorry if it sounds wrong.. If you read the whole thing do not bitch at me about how long it was, You took the time to read it! Thanks for listening -Boss Hogg

[richw]

I can tell by your bike selection you are very intelligent

Go to Google and get the tool bar with the built in spell checker.. FireFox also has a spell checker.

If you notice on news there is no more describing the race of anyone.

Let's popularize the use of white... then leave off others

He's one of my white friends

He's white but seems to be fluent in Ebonics.

My white friend drives an Asian car and eats Tacos.

My friend eats Tacos is code for Beaner



PS Now hit me with your Norwegian jokes and slurs

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by Boss Hogg
Look at Whalom park. Whalom was a "fun park" With all sorts of rides and was a nice place untill Leominster, MA kept growing with poor income housing and more and more illegal/legal imagrants moved into the area, Now half of Leominster is poor income houseing and Whalom park got hit with it...It was shut down a while back for gang violence because no one wanted to go there anymore, The gangs and violence between people that started going to the park got to out of controll and people were affraid to even go to the park anymore...

Whalom was a shithole anytime past the late 70's. Actually, no, it was a shithole then too. You just remember it as something of your youth. The last hayday of Whalom was back in the late 50's to mid 60's. After that, buh-bye. Just like Coney Island and Atlantic City.

Leominster/Fitchburg is the same as it's always been. It attracts poor people due to the low cost of living. I'm from West Fitchburg/Cleghorn. Both sides of my family still lives there and so didn't generations previous. Back then it wasn't the poor Puerto Rican's, it was the poor French-Canadians and Irish "ruining" the town. And ya know what? A lot of them spoke French! And even more were immegrants, some even illegal!

Once they are the majority, whose to say what the majority can and can't do. If they want the town to be a certain way, they have every right as do you if you were the majority. Lets stop just tossing around democracy as a thing to idolize and realize you sometimes don't get your way. If you live in a city that is a great place for poor people to live, then expect a lot of poor people to move there and make it their own. Your heritage probably did the same thing at some point in time.

[RGVER]

Originally posted by Boss Hogg
How many white gangs are there?? Not many!

Someones forgetting the West Staines Massive
BOYAKA

[Honclfibr]

Average household income in the US is 45k per year. Average household income in the world, adjusted for US cost of living, is 7k. In fact, "upper middle class" in terms of US dollars would be anyone earning more thant about $5500 a year. That's about $2.75 an hour. Meaning, to most of the world earning $2.75 an hour would be considered "the good life".

Welcome, members of the new world aristocracy. Your success is assured by your U.S. birthright, regardless of how lazy and ineffective you are. Enjoy your creature comforts, courtesy of your ancestors' exploitation of the world economy.

Now, fuck those lazy bastards who cannot be arsed to learn the new "lingua nobilis". Don't they understand that it's their responsibility to speak our language, if they want to enjoy the scraps from our table? After all, the kind of standard of living that $5.75 an hour provides is a privilege, not a right. Unless you're born here. In which case, someone has already paid your way. Feel free to munch on a burrito, take a nap, and wake up refreshed and ready to bitch about all those undeserving folks who are trying to take the life you worked not at all for.

[richw]

Typical L whining...

Yes I am lucky to be born here from some immigrants from long ago.

Well boo the F*ck Woo

Most societies are far Older then we are and as you describe in much worse shape.

WHY ??

The only countries Zooming today are the ones that adopted our traditional capitalist values and must I say it WASPY presbyterian attitudes.


WHY are we so Great, well some good fortune but our classic society produced great wealth for all.

We are not sure why it works so well ... Be afraid the more dilution from either immigrant flavor or Marxist tendencies will drag us down.

How much is too much I don't the F know but its a poor gamble to find out


Its the rest of the world escaping the old poor societies to get here. It is totally illogical for them to want to recreate their old shit hole here.

If you've snuck in at least have the courtesy to USA up as soon as you can