[richw]

I don't have great details but it is my understanding that the Koran speaks to war.

You are required to inform you opponent that there is a dispute and it will lead to war if the opponent does not make peace.

The Iranian letter would satisfy this Muslim law and effectively is a declaration of a state of war. The letter was directed toward you the American people so Iran has announced that it is going to war against YOU.

Bring the troops home from Iran's borders that will show them

Have a nice day

[capt1014]

Bemused

[highsider]

Actually, I didn't get that sort of feeling from that letter.

Here is a link to the actual letter: Linky

If you read the letter, this guy seems pretty reasonable. Particularly when compared to other middle eastern leaders. But once again, our President is too much of a retarded cowboy to take it as an opening of communication, and chooses to ignore it.

Edit: When I say he is pretty reasonable, I dont mean compared to a reasonable person, I mean compared to Islamic extremists.

[capt1014]

Got it now thanks for the clarification Highsider.

[richw]

There is no prohibition against lying to infidels

[highsider]

Originally posted by richw
There is no prohibition against lying to infidels

I guess we'll never know, if we continue to ignore them.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
I guess we'll never know, if we continue to ignore them.

dude, seriously? what on earth makes you think we can beleive a word that comes out of their mouth?

go 'head talk to them....then they will be n. korea in 5 years..


have we learned NOTHING!!!! we cannot reason with these people. they want us dead...any deals they make stating otherwise is CRAP..they are stalling until they get strong enough...


WAKE UP AMERICA!

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
dude, seriously? what on earth makes you think we can beleive a word that comes out of their mouth?

go 'head talk to them....then they will be n. korea in 5 years..


have we learned NOTHING!!!! we cannot reason with these people. they want us dead...any deals they make stating otherwise is CRAP..they are stalling until they get strong enough...


WAKE UP AMERICA!

You are comparing terrorist groups with the nation of Iran. While I realize there are some links, they are not the same thing.

Also, terrorists dont bother with communicating first. They just kill people and blow shit up.

If we just continue to dismiss the attempts of negotiation from places like N. Korea and Iran, it is going to cause an escalation in violence. If we negotiate with them it will be difficult, and they might lie their asses off, but less people will die and relationships will improve.

[Doc]

Originally posted by highsider
You are comparing terrorist groups with the nation of Iran. While I realize there are some links, they are not the same thing.

Also, terrorists dont bother with communicating first. They just kill people and blow shit up.

If we just continue to dismiss the attempts of negotiation from places like N. Korea and Iran, it is going to cause an escalation in violence. If we negotiate with them it will be difficult, and they might lie their asses off, but less people will die and relationships will improve.

Interesting theroy. Isn't that what the diplomats do before it gets to this point? Does this stuff happen overnight? Are we automatically jumping to conclusions with Rouge governments?

We do not negotiate with terrorists and I think that is an excellent policy that saves lives preemptively.

Governments do talk, and I agree negotiations are the first step but retoric only gets you so far.

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by highsider
Actually, I didn't get that sort of feeling from that letter.

Here is a link to the actual letter: Linky

If you read the letter, this guy seems pretty reasonable. Particularly when compared to other middle eastern leaders. But once again, our President is too much of a retarded cowboy to take it as an opening of communication, and chooses to ignore it.

Edit: When I say he is pretty reasonable, I dont mean compared to a reasonable person, I mean compared to Islamic extremists.

Oh yeah, he is very reasonable. Was it last month or the month before when he said Israel will soon be wiped off the map?

He also said the Holocaust is a "myth".

Lastly he is aggressively pursuing nuclear power for energy uses even though the region is oil-rich.

Yes reasonable indeed.

[TheIglu]

Lets just turn them into glass. If we wipe all of them out holocaust style then we will win the war on terror. That would make us good people.

[Doc]

Ok so I just read the whole thing... I have more comments.

1. I am sure alot is lost in the translation so I won't fault the syntax or repetativeness of many of the comments.

2. I also must remember that this is the way they talk in the middle east, wordy and flamboyant and taking forever to get to the point.

3. This letter appears to be a rehashing of all the bad press for the last 5 years. It mentions none of the positives and only the negatives.

4. It appears to me to be a vain attempt to "stir up" those god fearing, tree huggin, latte drinking, "talkers" that do NOTHING to help solve the problem but bitch and wine about the poor Iraqi's, Iranians, Somali's, Koreans.... (that is not directly meant to anyone on this forum, if it is i will gladly tell you it to your face )


Great discussions guys. I truly appreciate the freedom of speech we all cherish.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Oh yeah, he is very reasonable. Was it last month or the month before when he said Israel will soon be wiped off the map?

He also said the Holocaust is a "myth".

Lastly he is aggressively pursuing nuclear power for energy uses even though the region is oil-rich.

Yes reasonable indeed.

Read the "Edit" part, dickbag.

[hessogood]

I'm going to bake them some cookies and put all this hate stuff to rest once and for all.

[highsider]

Originally posted by Doc
Ok so I just read the whole thing... I have more comments.

1. I am sure alot is lost in the translation so I won't fault the syntax or repetativeness of many of the comments.

2. I also must remember that this is the way they talk in the middle east, wordy and flamboyant and taking forever to get to the point.

3. This letter appears to be a rehashing of all the bad press for the last 5 years. It mentions none of the positives and only the negatives.

4. It appears to me to be a vain attempt to "stir up" those god fearing, tree huggin, latte drinking, "talkers" that do NOTHING to help solve the problem but bitch and wine about the poor Iraqi's, Iranians, Somali's, Koreans.... (that is not directly meant to anyone on this forum, if it is i will gladly tell you it to your face )


Great discussions guys. I truly appreciate the freedom of speech we all cherish.

Regardless of what we want to call it, it is a peaceful communication. If he wanted to stir things up, he'd shoot at us or bomb us.

Let me make an analogy. If you are approached in a bar by an asshole, and he gives you a hard time, do you just go to beating on him? Or do you attempt to reason with him to avoid a big messy fight? Personally, I'd rather try to reason with someone, even if they are a total jerk-off, than get into a brawl. Even if I can beat the guy's ass easily, he is still going to get a punch or two in, and he might have some big, tough friends who will be waiting for me outside.

[richw]

WE should :

Move greatly to destabilize Iran. Start covertly giving them weapons... some will get into the correct hands.

Get some expatriate Iranians to elect or crown an Iranian government in exile.

Proposed BUSH DOCTRINE....

Any WMD attack especially Nuclear against any NATO country will be retaliated immediately against all rogue states with Nukes. We will attempt an approximate 10 to 1 kill ratio. Remind them that Allah will run out of virgins real fast. Only totally free inspections by UN unannounced teams giving you a clean report would get you off of the rogue nuke list.


While we are at it send the father of modern Iran

Jimmy Carter

to negtotiate for us


Edit for above

What do you do if the Bar Asshole says he's going to kill your whole family.

Psst The answer is kill him somewhere without witnesses.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
You are comparing terrorist groups with the nation of Iran. While I realize there are some links, they are not the same thing.

Also, terrorists dont bother with communicating first. They just kill people and blow shit up.

If we just continue to dismiss the attempts of negotiation from places like N. Korea and Iran, it is going to cause an escalation in violence. If we negotiate with them it will be difficult, and they might lie their asses off, but less people will die and relationships will improve.

no I am not talking about terrorists..i am talking about Kim Jong-il, Saddam he'll even Gorbachev.... how far did making deals and talking go with them?

they are no real attepts..they are playing us...and no MORE people will die in the long run...

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Regardless of what we want to call it, it is a peaceful communication. If he wanted to stir things up, he'd shoot at us or bomb us.

Let me make an analogy. If you are approached in a bar by an asshole, and he gives you a hard time, do you just go to beating on him? Or do you attempt to reason with him to avoid a big messy fight? Personally, I'd rather try to reason with someone, even if they are a total jerk-off, than get into a brawl. Even if I can beat the guy's ass easily, he is still going to get a punch or two in, and he might have some big, tough friends who will be waiting for me outside.

what about when the same assholes keep comming up..over and over and over again...

seriously chris...learn some history bud

[Doc]

Originally posted by highsider
Regardless of what we want to call it, it is a peaceful communication. If he wanted to stir things up, he'd shoot at us or bomb us.

Let me make an analogy. If you are approached in a bar by an asshole, and he gives you a hard time, do you just go to beating on him? Or do you attempt to reason with him to avoid a big messy fight? Personally, I'd rather try to reason with someone, even if they are a total jerk-off, than get into a brawl. Even if I can beat the guy's ass easily, he is still going to get a punch or two in, and he might have some big, tough friends who will be waiting for me outside.

Using your analogy, So your reason and that works, but 5 min later he is back acting the same way but worse, and you reason again and it works but this just keeps happening and he is annoying and ruining your good time and affecting those around you and possible hurting others physically... When do you step up and kick the twerps ass? Maybe get some help and or take your chances with the guys outside? At what point does your honor come into play

Edit: Sorry this was brought up already.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
what about when the same assholes keep comming up..over and over and over again...

seriously chris...learn some history bud

Now I'm no history buff, but from what I read here :

.... it was the first official communication between the two countries' presidents since the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

[highsider]

Originally posted by Doc
When do you step up and kick the twerps ass? Maybe get some help and or take your chances with the guys outside? At what point does your honor come into play

Edit: Sorry this was brought up already.

In a bar fight, honor matters. Someone calls my wife a name I dont like, they are leaving with their teeth in their hand.

In world politics, it means nothing. You talk and talk and talk and make deals and talk some more until the other parties does something that causes actual harm.

[odduc]

C'mon.....
Are we really supposed to take anything from Iran seriously ? Have we already forgotten that this wacko wants to eliminate Isreal and he is aggressively pursuing nuclear technology ? Doesn't anyone else see right through this ? This is something that is supposed to give us a false sense of security so that we let our guard down. Islam is NOT the peaceful religion that we're being led to believe it is. These people will not stop until they've either eliminated or converted the entire world. This is their 'holy war'.
Bottom line is that we cannot trust anything these nutjobs have to say.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Now I'm no history buff, but from what I read here :

[bigred875]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Oh yeah, he is very reasonable. Was it last month or the month before when he said Israel will soon be wiped off the map?

He also said the Holocaust is a "myth".

Lastly he is aggressively pursuing nuclear power for energy uses even though the region is oil-rich.

Yes reasonable indeed.

highsider - this is a true story... and he is a "moderate" incase you didnt know, isreal is one of our best allies...

let do another anaolgy.....an known a-hole walks in to the bar, you know this because he has problems with one of your best friends. He makes it no secret he wants you friend and his family whipped out. You know he wants the same for you, but he hasnt said it in a couple of years, you know they feel this way because of your history...recent history.... but today...he walks up with an ear to ear smile and his hand out ready to kiss and make up....what would you do? shake his hand?

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
highsider - this is a true story... and he is a "moderate" incase you didnt know, isreal is one of our best allies...

let do another anaolgy.....an known a-hole walks in to the bar, you know this because he has problems with one of your best friends. He makes it no secret he wants you friend and his family whipped out. You know he wants the same for you, but he hasnt said it in a couple of years, you know they feel this way because of your history...recent history.... but today...he walks up with an ear to ear smile and his hand out ready to kiss and make up....what would you do? shake his hand?

Yes, I would. I might not necessarily believe a word he is saying, and I might keep my guard up, but I'm not going to turn away a freindly gesture.

You give positive reinforcement for good behavior, no matter how ill-gotten it might be, because it sets the stage for more positive negotiations in the future. If we just keep ignoring him, we *know* things aren't going to improve; if we talk with him, there is at least a chance.