[benVFR]

So there are starting to be various news reports that the 70-something year old professor who had previously survived the Holocaust and then escaped communist Romania died leading some sort of effort against the killer.

I'm sure this little twit was not too scary to someone who lived through all that.

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by Adrenalinechic

you don't think that they thought that if they did what they were told, that they would be spared. You don't think that they had a hope of living? If I knew I was going to be killed (like the people on flight United 93) then I would fight back as well, but I'm stating that I don't think they KNEW they were going to die, I believe they HOPED they would LIVE and therefore, would not fight. No one knows if he shot them 1 by 1, with minutes in between (do we?) or if he lined them up and just unloaded his rounds and rounds of amo he had on his vest?

Did anyone try to fight back? I dont know if there are statements/evidence out against either or for either side.

You've never shot a gun. It takes time to aim and place shots and to reload clips. The number of people that can shoot well with both hands is the same as the number of people that can sign their name with both hands, slim. You also need two hands to change a magazine.

Also, i don't remember hearing anything about the people on flight 93 knowing they were going to die. What I remember hearing is they were told to cooperate and they would be fine. When someone is lining you up at gunpoint I think it's pretty obvious he isn't there for a chat.

[Billy]

When an armed man is lining you up against a wall it usually only means one thing.

Let's say they didnt know why they were being lined up against the wall. Once everyone is lined up he starts shooting people.

I think by the time he shoots the second person its going to be VERY clear what his intentions are to the rest of the people lined up and still standing. I dunno thats just my opinion.

[Adrenalinechic]

i most definitely have shot a gun, damn good at it, too!

The people on 93 talked to their families on cells and heard about reports of the towers getting hit, figured out it was a suicide mission, and then fought back and landed in PA instead of the Pentagon.

And after he lines them up and shoots the second person....is where paralyzing fear kicks in.

Honestly, we don't know the lay out of the room, obstacles, etc. It just seems you're all attacking the victims and in essence calling them weak. It's disrespectful and we'll never know what really went on in that room or what the psycho told them. He could have kept saying, if you cooperate, you'll be fine- and at that point, I'm sure each of them was praying that they would be spared if 'they cooperated.'

[hessogood]

What have you shot? How many rounds at what range and how long did it take you? I own two hand guns and have put thousands of rounds through them.

Got any evidence of these flight 93 phone calls? I've never heard anything about it.

Compasion for the tragedy doesn't mean making cover up stories. Anyones speculation on an attempt to fight back is just as solid as your paralyzing fear theory.

[Adrenalinechic]

I shot at training at Maxwell AFB, Alabama. I don't own any, don't really want to. My role is to save lives, not take them. I will never be armed in the AF but we have to train just in case we have to defend ourselves if absolutely necessary.

No cover up stories, just defending the deceased. We don't know what went on but inhumane accusations are unecessary. Paralyzing fear isn't a theory, it's proven (and not mine). Humans are predictable (for the most part) in certain situations. I've studied a lot of psych and just saying....again, we don't know what went on but I'd like to give the deceased more respect.

and the calls, all over the news when it happened.

[hessogood]

Owning a gun is not intent to take lives. It would, however have been pretty handy if a single individual involved there had a gun. The story would have gone quite a bit differently.

This subject came up first as a generalized discussion on how some of us think we would have reacted, which you disagreed with. Then defended that with how you think those people may have thought.

I'm not disrespecting anyone, dead oor alive, nor can how I feel about the cicumstances be called 'inhumane accusations' simply because people lost their lives.

[richw]

she's too pretty to lie.

Yes there were cell phone calls on flight 93 and were informed that the high jacked planes were crashed into buildings. Flight 93 are heros even if it was go for broke.

Twisties its a 12 gauge as in shot gun also 20,16 and 10 and for some reason the small one is a 410 which is a caliber?. pistols and rifles come in calibers or mm sizes referring to the size of the bullet and sometimes the case as well or near abouts.

I have no information but I don't think the VAT were lined up. Just shot where they were and he moved on etc. my guess.

Really stable people should be encouraged to carry weapons. Like over 35 with some police auxillary training... no wait that would cut into the Law Biz budget and they won't stand for that

[Billy]

Ok I have a question. According to this article he suffered from depression and was on medication.

WHDH-TV - National News - Gunman in Virginia Tech massacre had raised concerns with his disturbing writings

Is anyone familiar with the backgroud checks that are done when purchasing firearms? I'm assuming medical information is blocked in the background check because of legal issues?

[hessogood]

There are differences state to state. The reports were of serial numbers filed off at least one of the guns. you don't buy a gun legally and file off the serial numbers, which in itself is a crime.

[ChrisNoF4i]

I'm pretty sure that depression is not a felony in Virginia.

The fact that he bought the gun legally and then allegedly filed off the serial numbers leads me to believe that this was not originally intended to be a suicide mission.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by ChrisNoF4i

I'm pretty sure that depression is not a felony in Virginia.

Agreed, but I think the state officials would not want a gun to be sold to a person suffering from a mental illness. I'm just curious to know if the state of Virgina's background checks check for mental illnesses along with felonys.

[rebelpacket]

Tech students (for the most part) are usually not military/ex-military in combat positions. The training and conditioning required to not only A.) Hit a human target with a gun while moving and firing at you, and B.) Act with a cool, calm demeanor while in the middle of a firefight, cannot be gained any other way than combat, or sociopath tendencies.

Until any of us find ourselves lined up in a classroom with a deranged student executing our peers, we can not criticize anyones actions. I would like to think most of us would decide to do something when we realize he plans to shoot everyone, but thats here nor there.

All I would say, is I hope that faced with imminent death, or witnessing the execution of my classmates, that I wouldn't freeze.

[KillBill]

Originally Posted by BadBoyBilly

Ok I have a question. According to this article he suffered from depression and was on medication.

WHDH-TV - National News - Gunman in Virginia Tech massacre had raised concerns with his disturbing writings

Is anyone familiar with the backgroud checks that are done when purchasing firearms? I'm assuming medical information is blocked in the background check because of legal issues?

State Gun Laws :: Virginia

[Billy]

I dont think any state checks medical records. I think you'd be violating some laws by doing that and I didnt see any reference to checking medical records on that site you found.

Mainly asked because I was curious.

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by BadBoyBilly

I dont think any state checks medical records. I think you'd be violating some laws by doing that and I didnt see any reference to checking medical records on that site you found.

Mainly asked because I was curious.

VA laws are very relaxed. I don't remember the initial paper to get my pistols but I know the app in NH for a CCW does ask about mental illness and depression, that is probably the extent of the check.

[KillBill]

Let's not forget our god given rights here people

Right to bear arms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps there are not enought guns. If just ONE of these kids had a 9mm this whole incident could have been prevented. I know it's the flip of the argument but it seems like people are killing more now then ever

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by KillBill

Let's not forget our god given rights here people

Right to bear arms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps there are not enought guns. If just ONE of these kids had a 9mm this whole incident could have been prevented. I know it's the flip of the argument but it seems like people are killing more now then ever

Read the gun laws. Virginia CCW's are not valid on the campuses. Students have been disciplined for carrying on campus with a state issued CCW.

[KillBill]

Perhaps the gun laws are what need to be changed then. Maybe a mental clearing from a doctor should be established prior to a license being issued. It seems like VA has a lot of these crazy shootings. A few years ago it was the sniper shooting people at gas stations and in parking lots.

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by KillBill

Perhaps the gun laws are what need to be changed then. Maybe a mental clearing from a doctor should be established prior to a license being issued. It seems like VA has a lot of these crazy shootings. A few years ago it was the sniper shooting people at gas stations and in parking lots.

Read the licensing and sales laws too. You're also assuming the guns used were legal guns and legally purchased.

People who obtain guns according to the law are rarely the ones that need to be feared. I can have an illegal handgun in Mass in a couple hours to do what i want with. Being a NH resident, it would be nearly impossible for me to get one or carry one in mass legally.

[benVFR]

Originally Posted by KillBill

If just ONE of these kids had a 9mm this whole incident could have been prevented. I know it's the flip of the argument but it seems like people are killing more now then ever

Let's just stress the "could" aspect of that sentence and not buy into too much NRA bullshit that every carrying citizen is capable of wiping out large forces of criminals.

A student with a gun might have been paralyzed just like everyone else, he/she might have missed the killer, he/she might have gotten shot before they could use the gun, etc, etc, etc..

Gun enthusiasts are pretty under-represented in the hard-core nerd crowd that makes up engineering student bodies. Most aren't made of money and computers and other tech toys are way more interesting.

[Billy]

Even if the gun laws did change so that more checks are done, someone can still get a gun fairly easy (illegally).

If I wanted an illegal gun I'd go straight to Dorchester, MA. Plenty of them are there!!!

[rktgrl747]

In Mass its much more difficult but there is no check for mental stability. I work in the psych field and I carry. I often wonder if a fellony check is enough.

[KillBill]

I was simply posing the "what if" argument. That is all.

I am not saying that is a solution by any means. No matter what it is, guns, drugs, alcohol etc. if there are laws governing it people will find any way possible to get to it. Our country has gone through Prohibition for example.

[Billy]

My memory is a little fuzzy on my next question,

I have a Class B LTC in MA. The purpose of the card states "All lawful purposes". Does that give me permission to carry concealed weapons? I never have but it's something I've been wondering now.

I think you need a CCW permit on top of the LTC.