[KillBill]

Where do I go to get my license?

My g/f's dad and her brother are cops and am going to start going shooting with them.

[rebelpacket]

Originally Posted by hessogood

People who obtain guns according to the law are rarely the ones that need to be feared. I can have an illegal handgun in Mass in a couple hours to do what i want with. Being a NH resident, it would be nearly impossible for me to get one or carry one in mass legally.

Well said.

I mean really. If someone is unhinged enough to murder 32 of their classmates, do you really think a new gun-law is going to stop them? Getting weapons illegally is easy. Getting weapons legally is the hard part.

[l3uddha]

Originally Posted by benVFR

the hard-core nerd crowd that makes up engineering student bodies. .

thanks, you make me feel great.

well I hope noone tries this at Northeastern or I'll have to open up a can of whoop-ass.


...just thought I'd throw that in there...



I talked to my dad about it today, who is a college professor at UMASS Boston and Northeastern. He teaches a lot of graduate level classes & has had MANY international students, including Koreans, who were some of the best students & nicest people he's known. This kid was tweaked in many ways.


he said he was suprised people didnt pick up desks & chairs & start throwing them at the shooter. I heard on the news they got on the ground & flipped the desks for cover. Who knows the details of it. Maybe people DID try & were blown away. Hopefully we can learn something from it. I dont think more people carrying guns is the answer though, nor do I think we should take guns away from the responsible people who purchase them legally.

I dunno... It's just hard to pick sides on some of these issues, when it wasnt any ONE thing that lead this kid to snap. People are looking for a scapegoat to make them feel better. You could probably make tighter gun-control laws, & it'd still be just as easy to get a gun of the street if you've got the money for it.

I blame society. The news reporters(or actors as I call them) are total bullshit. This was no "very tight-knit town". How is a town that houses one of the biggest universities "tight-knit"?? This kid was a total outcast from his peers & society. He thought he had nothing to live for and felt the need to lash out at the people who had rejected him or didnt care to see someone crying for help. If you wanna blame guns, this shit'll keep happening. probably worse next time.

no wait, I blame GTA3...

[benVFR]

If you're at Northeastern you should have long gotten over being called a nerd. Of course while you're at school it's easy to forget what you are since there are always a population of real ultimate nerds.

But anyway the gun issue is kind of moot as it sounds like Virginia and/or the school were not doing anything to stop anyone from taking a concealed handgun to class to defend the school. For all we know there were several students who were carrying for protection and none of them did anything and/or were just paralyzed with fear like everyone else.

That's one of the problems.. even if you reduce gun laws like crazy there are lots and lots of people who just have no interest in playing cowboy and carrying a gun everywhere.

[Josephd14]

Originally Posted by BadBoyBilly

I dont think any state checks medical records. I think you'd be violating some laws by doing that and I didnt see any reference to checking medical records on that site you found.

Mainly asked because I was curious.

I'm Bi-Polar / and suffer from OCD, anxiety and sometimes bouts of Depression.. Well if you buy into that crap, I don't take any meds anymore, haven't for a long time.. No I'm not related to Tom Criuse. My point is, I have always had Firearms.. always will, hopefully.. Never had an issue, never been convicted of anything Violent.. More people suffer from Depression then you think, or maybe even you do or have.. How many people in law enforcement do you think have suffered from depression and anxiety.. The fact is that people that do this have something else wrong with them, and unfortunetly it is something that can not be easily seperated from the normal people that go through tough times.. Just because someone is depressed or suffering from some other illness, does not mean they have no conscience, and it seems that is what this young man was lacking..

[Adrenalinechic]

jay, you're right...backing off, sorry, i guess it just escalated

in terms of a background check....medical files are strictly confidential. you need a court order to access them...anywhere.

[MissTwisties]

Originally Posted by richw

Twisties its a 12 gauge as in shot gun also 20,16 and 10 and for some reason the small one is a 410 which is a caliber?. pistols and rifles come in calibers or mm sizes referring to the size of the bullet and sometimes the case as well or near abouts.

It was a Beretta, 12 gauge caliber, with a capacity of 2 rounds.

Andrea...I can't speak for anyone else but I'm pretty sure no one ever intended to "attack" the victims here... There is a lot of valid points made in this thread. It was only for the sake of the discussion and mainly talking about "what could have been done", like I said, in the "ideal scenario"...but that often only happens in movies where you can control how things are going to be. We'd like to think we'd do this and that, but no one knows for sure how they would react if they were in this situation. Those poor kids...it's not their fault what happend to them. There is IMO only one person responsible for that carnage. My heart goes out to them 100%.

One more thing I agree with...guns are not the problem. People who do stupid shit with them are.

[mostly.lurking]

According to CNN.com, the 9mm was a Glock 19 legally purchased a month ago with 50 rounds of ammunition.

Oh, and BadBoyBilly- As I understand it, a MA class B LTC is for "High Capacity" long guns and non-"high capacity" handguns with no concealed carry. For concealed carry, you'll need an unrestricted (ie. ALP) class A LTC

[Doc]

I was kinda wondering how the body count got so high as well. You just don't know the circumstances of how it all went down.

Your lined up against a wall, you think he is just doing it to keep an eye on you, you stay still, he fires, you duck and cover, he fires again, you piss yourself, he fires again, your life flashes before your eyes, he fires again, you shit yourself he fires again, you just happen to be at the end of the line and think it should stop soon, he fires again! Now there is a group horrified trying to get AWAY, he fires again and again until he is out of ammo, you think thank god he stopped but he just reloaded, maybe you are wounded, maybe you can't get past the group of people and all the desks overturned, maybe you just want to run away, maybe you try to get to the gunman and he shoots you...

I do not want to come across as an all knowing combat vet. I have been shot "towards" not at and never returned fire. It is a scary feeling just being shot "towards", and there are ALOT of things to think about when it happens, you need to defend your friends and yourself, the first thing I always thought of was find cover and figure out where the shooting is coming from then call for some backup!


Your number one option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation.

When that fails you have to have the mental mindset to make a VERY quick decision. Fight or Flight.

[TheIglu]

He was smart and wanted to kill as many people as he could. That was the way to do it.

Other ways include the less "heroic" driving of a car into a crowd of people at speed.

Poisoning a group. (easily done)

Burnging down a building with people inside. (not quite so easy, but possible)

Anyone with malicious intent can kill lots of people very easily. He seemed to be obsessed with violence from the media reports (creative writing class papers) and that lends itself more towards weapons over vehicles/arsen/etc.

Guns are not and were never the issue here. Do I think guns shouldn't be allowed on college campus'? Damn right. After living on campus for 4 years, there is NO way I'd trust the typical college student with a firearm. Living situation is WAY too fragile already with violence, mental health issues resulting from huge changes occuring in life at that time, peer influence, alcohol, stresses, etc etc.

Yes, you can still bring a gun in if you try, but I'd rather not have them hanging around the dorms.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by mostly.lurking

According to CNN.com, the 9mm was a Glock 19 legally purchased a month ago with 50 rounds of ammunition.

Oh, and BadBoyBilly- As I understand it, a MA class B LTC is for "High Capacity" long guns and non-"high capacity" handguns with no concealed carry. For concealed carry, you'll need an unrestricted (ie. ALP) class A LTC

For some odd reason I thought I had a B (haven't looked at my LTC card in a while). I do have a Class A LTC with a purpose of "All Lawful Purposes".

[MissTwisties]

Originally Posted by Doc

Your lined up against a wall, you think he is just doing it to keep an eye on you, you stay still, he fires, you duck and cover, he fires again, you piss yourself, he fires again, your life flashes before your eyes, he fires again, you shit yourself he fires again, you just happen to be at the end of the line and think it should stop soon, he fires again! Now there is a group horrified trying to get AWAY, he fires again and again until he is out of ammo, you think thank god he stopped but he just reloaded, maybe you are wounded, maybe you can't get past the group of people and all the desks overturned, maybe you just want to run away, maybe you try to get to the gunman and he shoots you...

[Doc]

Sorry MissT, just trying to make a point. Being a "hero" isn't easy with all that going on.

[Honclfibr]

VT alum chiming in again...this is rural VA, 20 minutes from the west virginia border. Most of the students there have had exposure to guns, you will see plenty of trucks with gun racks, and if I remember correctly it was legal to have a shotgun/hunting rifle in your dorm room as long as it was registered with the campus police.

VT also has a very active ROTC program, with it's own paramilitary program (corp of cadets) and a lot of students there coming from or going onto military careers after graduation.

So you can pretty much bet that at least a few of the deceased students had some sort of firearms training, and I wouldn't be surprised if one or two had military backgrounds. I don't know what the situation was with the gunman, I'm not sure anyone does, but I think it would be pretty hard for any of us to sit here and debate what they should have done / what we would have done in their situation. Realistically I don't think any of us can say for certain what we would have done in a situation like that, it was completely unprecedented and unexpected.

[Doc]

[Adrenalinechic]

their student/teacher profiles are on msn.com. Didn't have a chance to read them right away, but looking through the pictures I do think that <one> of them was a ROTC cadet.

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by benVFR

If you're at Northeastern you should have long gotten over being called a nerd. Of course while you're at school it's easy to forget what you are since there are always a population of real ultimate nerds.

But anyway the gun issue is kind of moot as it sounds like Virginia and/or the school were not doing anything to stop anyone from taking a concealed handgun to class to defend the school. For all we know there were several students who were carrying for protection and none of them did anything and/or were just paralyzed with fear like everyone else.

That's one of the problems.. even if you reduce gun laws like crazy there are lots and lots of people who just have no interest in playing cowboy and carrying a gun everywhere.

The law in virginia actually prohibits students with CCW from carrying on campus. So the school and virginia actually were doing something to stop them from concealing handguns. I student in the last year I believe was disciplined for carrying even with his valid CCW. I believe that part of the law is in the earlier posting.

[Adrenalinechic]

Listening to the radio this morning, the topic of debate was:

If they allowed students to carry handguns on campus, they could have defended themselves and contrary, the laws to buy handguns are too lax.

??

[daviid]

Originally Posted by hessogood

The law in virginia actually prohibits students with CCW from carrying on campus. So the school and virginia actually were doing something to stop them from concealing handguns. I student in the last year I believe was disciplined for carrying even with his valid CCW. I believe that part of the law is in the earlier posting.

in va you can carry on campus as long as the school allows it, VT prohibits it

Originally Posted by http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/04/va_tech_official_praised_defea.php

VA Tech official praised defeat of student self-defense proposal in 2006

Jeff Johnson OneNewsNow.comApril 16, 2007
A Virginia Tech official in 2006 praised the defeat of a proposal to allow students with state-issued concealed handgun permits to carry their handguns on college campuses in Virginia. At least 30 unarmed students were killed on the VA Tech campus Monday morning by a single gunman.

Virginia House Bill 1572 was proposed in 2005 by Shenandoah County, Va., Republican Del. Todd Gilbert after a VA Tech student with a state-issued concealed handgun permit was arrested and charged only with "unlawfully" carrying a handgun on campus. The bill would have prohibited state universities in Virginia from enacting "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

After the proposal died in the state's House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety, The Roanoke Times quoted VA Tech spokesman Larry Hincker as celebrating the defeat of the bill.

"I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions," Hincker said on Jan. 31, 2006, "because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Following Monday's multiple-victim shooting at VA Tech, Erich Pratt with Virginia-based Gun Owners of America called that philosophy "idiocy."

"I think gun control advocates will say, 'See, we need more gun control,' even though this is exactly the product of gun control," Pratt said.

Currently, only two states - Utah and Oregon - have statutes specifically authorizing law-abiding individuals with concealed handgun permits to possess their firearms on state university property. Most other states have explicit or implied prohibitions.

"Every [other] school campus in this nation is a 'gun free zone,' supposedly," Pratt bemoaned. "But, isn't it amazing that criminals, bad guys never obey those laws."
...

oh the irony

[richw]

Here is my guess

He is a sick fuck....

He plans to kill the girl in the dorm.. totally not right but thats the plan


Then he gets caught by the RA and has to kill him too.

He goes back to his dorm and over the next hour decides he is totally fucked and the LAw will get him and piss on him for 20 years so he decides to go off on everything and starts the random rampage. Probably some plan re engineering smart kids but generally looking to go out in a blaze of glory and get his name and pain plastered by the media who is now accomidating him

[Billy]

Looks like copycats are already starting to form:

WHDH-TV - New England News - BU student sends out email threatening to recreate Va. Tech tragedy

What the F is this world coming to.

[MissTwisties]

What a f-r-e-a-k-i-n idiot....ROFL!!!! Now he's gonna get charged, without bringing his evil plan to reality. They're gonna keep an eye on him alright.

[Kham]

Originally Posted by richw

Here is my guess

He is a sick fuck....

He plans to kill the girl in the dorm.. totally not right but thats the plan


Then he gets caught by the RA and has to kill him too.

He goes back to his dorm and over the next hour decides he is totally fucked and the LAw will get him and piss on him for 20 years so he decides to go off on everything and starts the random rampage. Probably some plan re engineering smart kids but generally looking to go out in a blaze of glory and get his name and pain plastered by the media who is now accomidating him

that was my theory as well. im up to date with the situation.

Joseph, you almost sound like a wise old man. i totally agree. im depress right now but i don't care about the gun. i don't want anything to do with it. it weights down my style.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by benVFR

Let's just stress the "could" aspect of that sentence and not buy into too much NRA bullshit that every carrying citizen is capable of wiping out large forces of criminals.

A student with a gun might have been paralyzed just like everyone else, he/she might have missed the killer, he/she might have gotten shot before they could use the gun, etc, etc, etc..

Gun enthusiasts are pretty under-represented in the hard-core nerd crowd that makes up engineering student bodies. Most aren't made of money and computers and other tech toys are way more interesting.

let's strees the "might" in your point and add some common sense. People who are trained and experienced with firearms a lot less likely to freeze up and/or miss. If someone freezed up they are not a danger to anyone. The chances of them shooting someone else would be minimized by their training. Your point would make sense if a student just picked up a gun off the ground but not when you are talking about someone who owns a firearm.

if more people carried guns these situations would occur with much less frequency. I dont see how this point can be argued.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by bigred875

lif more people carried guns these situations would occur with much less frequency. I dont see how this point can be argued.

I think there's stats to prove this. Perfect example, Washington DC.

There was a thread on here recently about this exact topic:
http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...rd-knocks.html