[bigred875]

VTech Shooting: Gun-Control Kooks Are Way Off Target - Micheal Graham

And they're off!

The families haven't even started buried the dead in Blacksburg, VA, and already the Al Sharpton's of the anti-gun movement are demanding an immediate end to the Second Amendment.

When they're not blaming George W. Bush, they anti-freedom forces are screaming about the "assualt gun ban" and Virginia's "lax" gun laws. John Edwards wants to "restrict gun sales," according to the New York Times. And on every point, they anti-gun kooks are wrong. Not a single one of their demands would have had any impact on the crime or the criminal who committed it.

Let's do something the lefty anti-gun loonies never do: Think.

The assault weapons ban did expire in 2004, that's true. And the number of "assualt weapons" sicko Cho used to murder 32 people? That would be....zero.

Yes, Cho was able to legally buy a .22 caliber pistol in Virginia without a waiting period. But he took more than 30 days to buy the two guns he wanted anyway. Making him wait five more days would have made how much of a difference? That would be...none.

The pistols he had did not hold an inordinate number of bullets. They weren't automatic. He could have committed the exact same crime with a traditional revolver.

Cho had to have a background check, federal and local. He passed. He had to have a legal ID. He did. He could only buy one gun in Virginia every 30 days. He waited.

And then he took his guns and made the choice to commit a heinous, evil act. Not a single law proposed by any of the gun kooks trying to exploit this crime would have had any effect whatsoever on Cho or his crime.

For those of you who disagree, here's my simple question: What did Cho do BEFORE his decision to become a murderer that you and I should not be allowed to do?

Are you saying you and I shouldn't be able to buy a .22 pistol? How about a .22 rifle, just as deadly? Folks, if John Edwards is serious about criminalizing the purchase of these basic firearms, then there is NO right to bear arms at all.

We're not talking about AK-47s here, or even .44 magnums, Dirty-Harry style. The only way to stop the next Cho from buying a .22 is to ban all legal sales of handguns.

This, of course, will have no impact whatsoever on criminals since they already buy their guns illegally. But it will mean stripping the Second Amendment from the US Constitution.

Today, 32 people are dead. Do we really want to add to that tragedy by killing the Constitution?

[Kham]

well Red, i don't know much about guns and laws but wouldn't you think if he had AK-47 he would have taken a lot more than 32? probably everyone in the building.

[bigred875]

did he have an ak47?

[neuthunder]

yea but a gun/ rifle/ whatever is a tool for people to use.... its like if I use a hammer to kill someone should hammers be banned for personal use? granted its a stretch but the problem is not the guns, its the screwed up people and no one taking the time to find these people and fix them or do anything to prevent these things from happening... this cho guy showed the textbook signs for this and little action was taking to intervene except for the american way of handling things... drug him up and send him on his way

[Kham]

Originally Posted by bigred875

did he have an ak47?

no but if it hadn't been ban and he got a hold of it the number would have been higher. that's all im saying. im not for or against the ban.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Kham

no but if it hadn't been ban and he got a hold of it the number would have been higher. that's all im saying. im not for or against the ban.

i dont understand the point you are trying to make.

[Kham]

Originally Posted by neuthunder

yea but a gun/ rifle/ whatever is a tool for people to use.... its like if I use a hammer to kill someone should hammers be banned for personal use? granted its a stretch but the problem is not the guns, its the screwed up people and no one taking the time to find these people and fix them or do anything to prevent these things from happening... this cho guy showed the textbook signs for this and little action was taking to intervene except for the american way of handling things... drug him up and send him on his way

you can't compare hammer. it's not easy to kill with hammer. if you come up to me with a hammer there are plenty stuff i can grab to fight back. guns don't have practical use i don't think. second part is deal with "the american way..". it still is america or is it?

[bigred875]

thats a pretty big "except"

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Kham

you can't compare hammer. it's not easy to kill with hammer. if you come up to me with a hammer there are plenty stuff i can grab to fight back. guns don't have practical use i don't think. second part is deal with "the american way..". it still is america or is it?

he could have blown the place up with gasoline....if there is a will there is a way....what is your point? If there were no guns no one would get shot?

What does practical have to do with anything?

[Billy]

The problem is with us humans, not a gun. A gun doesn't pull the trigger on it's own it's the person who's holding the gun.

Fix the source of the problem (the human). Like neuthunder said, if there were no such things as guns we'd be using something else to kill people like a hammer or a bat. Let's ban them!!!

I want to throw a question out to the anti gun people on this forum if there are any. Pretend you're a bad person and you want to rob a store. Would you rather rob a store in an environment where the majority of the population is armed, or an environment where the population is not allowed to be armed. Which one do you choose?

Ok here's a pratical situation. You're a bad person and you want to hold people hostage for money or whatever. Your two options are to walk into a gun club and a ballet school. Which one do you choose?

[Kham]

Originally Posted by bigred875

he could have blown the place up with gasoline....if there is a will there is a way....what is your point? If there were no guns no one would get shot?

What does practical have to do with anything?

gasoline is not quick enough. people will spot him. see Richw's theory in the other thread. the point is if ak47 was not ban and he somehow have it his dorm, the damage would have been greater so the banning MAY have prevent that.

practical because that guy mention hammer. gun is not practical. what would you use a gun for daily? as a hammer?

[Kham]

Originally Posted by BadBoyBilly

The problem is with us humans, not a gun. A gun doesn't pull the trigger on it's own it's the person who's holding the gun.

Fix the source of the problem (the human). Like neuthunder said, if there were no such things as guns we'd be using something else to kill people like a hammer or a bat. Let's ban them!!!

I want to throw a question out to the anti gun people on this forum if there are any. Pretend you're a bad person and you want to rob a store. Would you rather rob a store in an environment where the majority of the population is armed, or an environment where the population is not allowed to be armed. Which one do you choose?

Ok here's a pratical situation. You're a bad person and you want to hold people hostage for money or whatever. Your two options are to walk into a gun club and a ballet school. Which one do you choose?

here's the answer. i would get a bigger gun, shoot to kill then take the money. if i get caught i would end it all.

[l3uddha]

if he wanted to, I'm sure he could have blown up the fucking building. but ther'e really no sense in asking "what if?". we could do it all day long & get absolutly nowhere; like the media seems to be doing.

when I first read your post bigred, I was all pissed off & wrote this long as rant as to how guns arent even the BIG issue here.

there's no point in arguing it though. All I can do is have faith that the intelligent people in this country outnumber the ignorant, and will focus on healing and trying to figure out why someone would be compelled to do something like this in the first place. I really think trying to learn more about him and what pushed him so far are the only steps we can take in the right direction in trying to prevent this from happening in the future.

take a step back and look at what's really going on here. People on BOTH sides are using this shooting to push their own fucking agendas as usual.

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by Kham

guns don't have practical use i don't think.

Hunting, protection, and sports are not practical uses?

The biggest threat to our right to bear arms is the ability of people who have never handled a firearm in their life to impose laws againsts those of us that have.

[bigred875]

thats a bit of a stretch Kham....you can get an semi-auto ak47 and get the parts to make it fully auto online. He bought the guns over 2 months time, if he wanted to use an AK he would have. Thats the point....there are wacko's all over and you can very easily get an illegal gun and do the same thing...

a gun is practical for personal protection and hunting. Are you going to carry a hammer around for personal protection....or hunt deer with a hammer?

something that doesnt seem practical to you and people with your views is no reason to ignore the constitution. If you and the rest of teh anti-gun people do not like that all you have to do is go through the process to ammend the consitution.

[richw]

Don't be suckered by the left.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to protect the populous from an over reaching government... AKA revolution just like 1776.

It wasn't Cho or Bambi burgers. It should be argued that the citizens should have unfettered access to weapons similar to the government.

It was a given that you had an obligation to defend you your family and your community

The good ol days wackos were ostracized almost immediately when they announced their wackoness. It was a families duty to prevent a miscreant to be loose on the population...IE locked in an attic. or Daddy took him hunting.

I propose a voluteer citizens constabulary...

Minimum of 35 years of age ...when the gonads are calmed down.
1 week training course.. really bullshit but show some common sense.
Pass a background check.

These would have unfettered full carry national permits. Airplane, surgery, schools Post Office, porno flicks everywhere.


Sorry Leo's and others in the Law Biz. I know this would cut into you money but I wouldn't give them the right to issue traffic tickets where the real money is so no sweat.

[bigred875]

if you want to blame anyone for this particular incident....start with the criminal who commited the crime, then look at his parents, teachers and advisers....the signs were all there and ignored.

[l3uddha]

guns arent going anywhere, so there's no use arguing about it.


if you want to honor the people killed & learn how to prevent future shootings, read a book on mental illnesses. unfortunatly that's too much for people so they'd rather bitch.

[l3uddha]

Originally Posted by bigred875

if you want to blame anyone for this particular incident....start with the criminal who commited the crime, then look at his parents, teachers and advisers....the signs were all there and ignored.

yes that's exactly what I mean.

everyone is "jumping the gun"...

[highsider]

My ideas on gun control are pretty wacky, so forgive me ahead of time.

I think everyone should carry a gun, and know how to use it. If someone on campus had been carrying a gun, they'd have wasted this prick before he got to his 3rd or 4th victim.

[Kham]

red, please... people with my view? don't underestimate me like those that do with Cho. i can shoot a gun. i actually have a bb gun.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by highsider

My ideas on gun control are pretty wacky, so forgive me ahead of time.

I think everyone should carry a gun, and know how to use it. If someone on campus had been carrying a gun, they'd have wasted this prick before he got to his 3rd or 4th victim.

doesnt sound wacky to me...sounds like common sense.. Who the hell is going to try to hold someone up at gun point if everyone has a gun.....

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Kham

red, please... people with my view? don't underestimate me like those that do with Cho. i can shoot a gun. i actually have a bb gun.

then articulate your view better...

ps - you'll shoot your eye out.

[hessogood]

Originally Posted by bigred875

if you want to blame anyone for this particular incident....start with the criminal who commited the crime, then look at his parents, teachers and advisers....the signs were all there and ignored.

Of course all the signs were there now that we're using hindsight. The event was not preventable. Look around you, anyone you see could stand up at any second and start firing. Any of the thousands and thousands of people you drive or walk by everyday could start shooting at anytime. And then after the fact we'll hear everyone say, 'the signs were all there'.

[joeswamp]

Originally Posted by BadBoyBilly

The problem is with us humans, not a gun. A gun doesn't pull the trigger on it's own it's the person who's holding the gun.

Fix the source of the problem (the human). Like neuthunder said, if there were no such things as guns we'd be using something else to kill people like a hammer or a bat. Let's ban them!!!

You can take this argument in the other direction, since it's all about people and not the tool, why not make private ownership of cheap nukes legal? You could argue that the 2nd amendment guarantees our individual right to own them.