[wylee]

I got this email today.






A lady wrote the best letter in the
Editorials in ages!!! It explains things
better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place
across the country protesting the fact that Congress
is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that
the US might protect its own
borders, might make it harder
to sneak into this country and,
once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand
the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover
me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "No! I like it here.
It's better than my house. I've made all
the beds and washed the
dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors. I've
done all the things you don't
like to do. I'm hard-working
and honest
(except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that
breaking in part).


If you try to call the police or force me out,
I will call my friends who will picket your
house carrying signs that proclaim my
RIGHT to be there.


It's only fair, after all, because you have
a nicer house than I do, and I'm just
trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working
and honest, person, except for well,
you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!


I live in your house, contributing only a
fraction of the cost of my keep, and
there is nothing you can do about it
without being accused of cold,

uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
bigoted behavior.


Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn
MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can
communicate with me.


Why can't people see how ridiculous
this is?! Only in America .
if you agree, pass it on ( in English ).
Share it if you see the value of it.

[catch2otwo]

thats why we have guns at home

[TESTINGurTOMATO]

AND a military to stand guard at our homeland's borders with GUNS

[Degsy]

If oversimplification of complex political and social problems relating to crime, race, creed and social standing were an olympic sport, the general populace of the USA would win gold every time, with the UK a close second.

What if there was a dictator from the woman's home country standing in your yard with a cannister of mustard gas waiting for her to come out, would you still kick her out? How about her children, would you kick her out and let her children stay? How about if her children were born while she was living in your house and were now friends of your children. How about if she found a child of yours choking one day and saved your child's life?

Way too many variables.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Degsy

If oversimplification of complex political and social problems relating to crime, race, creed and social standing were an olympic sport, the general populace of the USA would win gold every time, with the UK a close second.

What if there was a dictator from the woman's home country standing in your yard with a cannister of mustard gas waiting for her to come out, would you still kick her out? How about her children, would you kick her out and let her children stay? How about if her children were born while she was living in your house and were now friends of your children. How about if she found a child of yours choking one day and saved your child's life?

Way too many variables.

so kinda of prize do you get for over exaggerating the other way?

it's a lot easier to flee then fight....stay and make your country better...no problem was ever solved by running away...

We have a right to say who comes into this country and who doesn't....we have more problem then we can deal with already.....how about we take care of the United States Citizens first? if that really too much to ask?

you are not a racist or heartless for wanting the laws already on the books in this country enforced...

if you want in...get in line like the hundreds of thousands who already have....

[Pittenger5]

Most of those arguments could be solved if they had forced her to leave your house when first discovered. The other is a situation called asylum.

I firmly believe that immigration should be reformed to more easily allow people that should be here, and want to be here for the right reasons to LEGALLY be here. However, until then, if they're here illegally, its AGAINST THE LAW.

[roadracer685]

Say what you will bottom line is IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO COME INTO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALY!!! end of story we have enough of our own problems in this country we can barely take care of our own!!

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Most of those arguments could be solved if they had forced her to leave your house when first discovered. The other is a situation called asylum.

I firmly believe that immigration should be reformed to more easily allow people that should be here, and want to be here for the right reasons to LEGALLY be here. However, until then, if they're here illegally, its AGAINST THE LAW.

the first thing that needs to happen is closing the borders....then we deal with revamping the system and dealing with the illegals already here...if we dont stop the invasion you cant fix the problem....

Talk about broad generlaizations....what about all of you who think they are all here to make a better life for their families....

Wire transfering is Mexico's biggest and largest growing industry....20 BILLION is transferred to Mexico every year...

that is 20 billion taken out of out economy every year....

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by DucDave

...did we grant asyum to the thousands of Jews that snuck into the US to escape Hitler? Perhaps they should have stayed and been gassed with the millions of their fellows...

yep...it WAS easier to run than to stay and die...

that is not remotely close to what is going on now...that was genocide...

Are the vicious dictators of Mexico, Guatemala, Haiti and Brazil mass murdering a faction of their population?

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by DucDave

Florida is about to pass a law that will take your motorcycle and your drivers licence for going 50 over the speed limit. If I lived in Florida and rode motorcycles I would consider that a problem...

But you would live with it because it's a LAW....

doh

wtf...how did I get into a position where it sounds like I support illegal immigration??? Oh...I remember. I was really supporting Degsys post pointing out that Wylee's post oversimpified a complex problem! Let me add, Wylee's post, (in addition the desired effect of stirring the pot), is typical of the emotive dribble that is put forth as an intelligent contribution to the discussion. So, I agree again with Degsy. If oversimplification were an Olympic Sport you would all get Gold Medals.

how about we stop debating fantasy land hypotheticals and stick to the real world....that law is being propesed and shot down....immigrations law have been passed and are in effect today....

[Pittenger5]

I agree with you. Especially when the main argument to allow it is because they do all the jobs that Americans wont do. Well, except I can tell you in my business it affects a lot of americans (paint contracting). As well as that company that was raided and had the jobs filled with legal workers within 2 days.

[Pittenger5]

Well if yo uwanna talk about, of course we dont agree with it cause we dont like it. But if youre doing 50 over, youre breaking the law, its all about interpretation. If millions of people were doing 50 over and it was affecting countless legal americans and putting a burden on them we might have a different mindset.

[Doc]

Dave... If your doing 50 over you are a fool... I think you would agree and you SHOULD have your motorcycle taken away.

(If your in a car you should have your care taken away)

As for immigration... I have friends who immigrated, I have stood on the border and stopped illegal immigrants, I am in agreement that the system is flawed and the country IS a melting pot. The pot can get full, we need to allow people in LEGALLY.
There are ALOT of drains on the system, this is just 1.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by DucDave

No...but Degsy created a corner case...



...which posits a scenerio where a women and child's life is threatened and you argued...



that she should stay and fight. So, reducing the argument to the absurd, I ask about the jews...same arguement...matter of degree

you do not make laws based on a set of unfortunate incidents and emotions.... the good of this country needs to be first priority....i feel for this lady and would probably do the same thing... that does not make it right.

and stop already with the jews....apples and oranges...

[Triumphdog]

Didn't we flee England an Europe for religious and economical reasons??? I know its not the same issue we're faced with today. But lets not forget our ancestors were at one time immigrants. This issue will never be solved without people having some respect and understanding for one another.

[Pittenger5]

I dunno bout yours, but my ancestors (my grandparents) all came to this country legally.

[catch2otwo]

nothing will change untill people out there stop hiring illegals. too many employers hire illegals. another part of this ongoing problem

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by catch2otwo

nothing will change untill people out there stop hiring illegals. too many employers hire illegals. another part of this ongoing problem

Anyone under 40 in the US has not seen unemployment. You can put a sign outside a business here and wait a very long time for an american born citizen to come asking for the job, a VERY long time.

There is no unemployment issue here. The americans who don't work are lazy or greedy. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the phrase "it's not worth me working after the taxes and child support I would have to pay"

Again, oversimplification.

Too many American companies hire illegals? Does ANYONE ever ask why that might be the case? Illegals don't ask $25 an hour plus benefits to pick fruit, that's why.

There is a surplus of undereducated americans and there is a surplus of menial jobs. The trouble is that they don't match up because the average american non-graduate still wants the pay of someone with a degree. Enter the illegal immigrant who will do the work for what the farmer is paying.

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's life.

[Pittenger5]

For the most part, yes, I agree Degsy. But as I mentioned i work in the paint industry, and deal with a lot of contractors who have to quit because they cant compete with the companies that hire 20 brazillians and can get a job done in 1 day as opposed to 3-4 people that require a few more days. Is it their fault they need to pay their bills and make a living? They are willing to do the work, they just cant win jobs for multiple reasons. Im sure theres plenty of examples like that, thats just one I know first hand.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Degsy

Anyone under 40 in the US has not seen unemployment. You can put a sign outside a business here and wait a very long time for an american born citizen to come asking for the job, a VERY long time.

There is no unemployment issue here. The americans who don't work are lazy or greedy. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the phrase "it's not worth me working after the taxes and child support I would have to pay"

Again, oversimplification.

Too many American companies hire illegals? Does ANYONE ever ask why that might be the case? Illegals don't ask $25 an hour plus benefits to pick fruit, that's why.

There is a surplus of undereducated americans and there is a surplus of menial jobs. The trouble is that they don't match up because the average american non-graduate still wants the pay of someone with a degree. Enter the illegal immigrant who will do the work for what the farmer is paying.

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's life.

i agree with everything you said here......i just don't agree that open borders is the answer....

i also think for as many lazy americans there are those that will do those jobs...another point in lazy factor is the system of failing social programs don't provide motivation to get a job and better yourself....

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by bigred875

i agree with everything you said here......i just don't agree that open borders is the answer....

i also think for as many lazy americans there are those that will do those jobs...another point in lazy factor is the system of failing social programs don't provide motivation to get a job and better yourself....

Bang on.

[Pittenger5]

I think a lot of the debate is perceptions and psychology too though. Think about it, most people, myself included feel that LEGAL Americans should have priotity over anyone else in America. I dont mean as humans, but I think we should have first crack at schooling, federal programs, medical care, etc etc. But not only do americans paying taxes (Most people assume that all illegals dont, and Id say a good amount actually dont) have to pay for the illegals in all the above catagories, but they also get the shaft when it comes to other things. Being in this country illegally is illegal, no matter how you want to word it. So is speeding. So why are they allowed to be here with no punishment, use MY hard earn tax dollars for all the above catagories, but when I break the law such as speeding IM fully punished, and lose MORE of my hard earned money and time assuming an appeal and such. So basically they get everything, contribute nothing and nothing happens. I have to work, pay my taxes and if I do something wrong Im fully punished.

Im not saying this is right, I dont believe myself in a lot of it, I just think a lot of people think of all of this is true, and Im willing to bet the vast majority believes in at least parts of this.

[Kham]

i think the oversimplify sound good but dont sound right either.

i don't think people will break into your home if you live in a shed unless their intent is to rob you. if you ask nicely and i have some food i'd share. now, i would break into a nice big home. if i had a nice big home and you break in and demand just basic needs and i can afford it then why not?

on hiring illegal. i think it's like this.in a third world country where government is battling with rebel. the villegers are caught in middle. if they help the rebel, the government executes them and if they help the government, the rebel shoots them. however there are people taking advantage of the situation. it's call greed.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Kham

if i had a nice big home and you break in and demand just basic needs and i can afford it then why not?

Because you "demanded".

I wouldn't give you shit but a double tap for breaking into my house.

[Pittenger5]

So all illegal immigrants should break into Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Donald Trumps place cause they can afford it, and leave my low income alone. Makes sense to me.