[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by bergs

Did you see "Farenheight 911"? There's one clip in the begining that shows GW's reaction once he caught wind of the WTC incident.

Using Fahrenheit 911 as supporting evidence in an argument is not a good way to bring credibility to your viewpoint.

[bergs]

Originally Posted by ZX-12R

Using Fahrenheit 911 as supporting evidence in an argument is not a good way to bring credibility to your viewpoint.

Uhh yeah because that the sole basis of all my posts in this thread.

Please read what I said again.

I mention watching that ONE CLIP not the entire movie....durrr

[l3uddha]

what would you say if i told you i have some high-level government contacts who tell me bush will be staying for a 3rd term?

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by bergs

Uhh yeah because that the sole basis of all my posts in this thread.

Please read what I said again.

I mention watching that ONE CLIP not the entire movie....durrr

You already presented yourself in a manner that makes people believe you align yourself with the radical left. Most people look at the radical left (and radical right) as irrational nutbags and including a Fahrenheit 911 reference does not help your cause at all.

[bergs]

Originally Posted by ZX-12R

You already presented yourself in a manner that makes people believe you align yourself with the radical left. Most people look at the radical left (and radical right) as irrational nutbags and including a Fahrenheit 911 reference does not help your cause at all.

All in your opinion.

Not sure what you're construing as "my cause" but I'm pretty sure 99% of my statements here are accurate.

The "F 911" reference was only used for pictoral purposes. I have no idea where else the clip I reference exists so that's the basis of why the film was brought up....no other reason.

I didn't particularly care for the film, however, it does have some intreguing footage. The commentary I can do without.

FWIW: I don't "align" myself with anything and I choose not to limit myself to any one group title or type of thinking.

I try to promote open mindedness and thinking for one's self. If that's considered "radical" then great, I suppose you can lump me in there with the others.

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by bergs

FWIW: I don't "align" myself with anything and I choose not to limit myself to any one group title or type of thinking.

I try to promote open mindedness and thinking for one's self. If that's considered "radical" then great, I suppose you can lump me in there with the others.

Considering I've never met you and have no other frame of reference to judge you by, the way you have articulated your thoughts in writing does lump you into that group.

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by TESTINGurTOMATO

bergs you seem upset ....

Originally Posted by bergs

I'm not upset. I just posted an article that I found very amusing.

Not sure how I'm coming across as upset??

Here is a case in point. People are queueing in on certain characteristics of your writing which is giving them a mental picture of you that you probably did not intend.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by highsider

One thing I've never understood about you Doc - its guys like you that I worried about getting killed over there. Call me a pansy, but I dont like people dying. I just dont think we ever had a good reason to bust into Iraq, all by ourselves, and lose our soldiers for that crappy country and its shithead leader. I think the Iraqis will greatly benefit from our actions, but that goal could have been achieved with a lot less blood if our leaders had acted differently. I know you're in the military, and ready to do whatever is necessary, but I hate hearing about guys getting whacked by fuckhead insurgents in a war that was started on such shaky, and clearly erroenous, evidence. And I'd like to see our Commander in Chief finally brought to task for that error in judgment.

I am going to try to answer this. Maybe the next time I see you we should chat. Then again I like to think that I am a different person in real life (I don't usually talk politics)

I, unlike you, think we did have a good reason to go to Iraq, maybe I am brainwashed (I like to think I make my own decisions), maybe I see things a little differently. Maybe soldiers are made to believe that our cause is just and good. Maybe some people are a little more in tune with our military way of thinking. I know that the soldiers I talk to don't understand how the American public doesn't see it the way we do.

I can remember back to Libya and Kadafi and knowing the US was going to do something to stabalize the region.
I remember a change in how we trained in the early 90's from the Soviet type doctrine to urban warfare.
I am familiar with the saying keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
I remember being asked on 9/11 "Who could have done this?" and answering "Osama Bin Laden" (Honestly I didn't know Al Quida) and the people saying "Who?".
I am not some new coming of Nostradamus. I just have a different view of the world and the region than some of my friends. That is what I try to bring to our discussions.

I see that our government isn't perfect. (I see it every election). I see that Bush (my Commander in Chief by the way) is not the brightest bulb in the box. I see that money makes the world go around, that the middle east has been a hotbed for thosands of years and it will continue to be for quite some time. I see Iraq in a civil war. I see that the Iraqis are sorry that Americans have to die but they don't want us to leave (yet). I see the good we are doing and need to continue doing there. I see how we need to better handle our international policies. I also see how you can't tell all the people all the truth all the time.
I see the need for a planned withdrawl but I also don't see the need to broadcast it to the world. I see the need for our continued presence in the region.

I am ranting...

Let's say we pull out (be it orderly or just drop everything and leave). What next? What will happen in the region? What about the price of oil then? Who is gonna swoop in and pick up the pieces we left behind? Iran? Pakistan? Kuwait?

Oh and on the 1st gulf war topic... I don't see people saying we shouldn't have went in there. Kuwait and the UAE ASKED us to help we got approval from the people and went over and bitch slapped Saddam. Then we were told "Hold up, we don't need to invade Iraq just yet"

I don't see people saying we shouldn't have helped Europe in the 40's.

I am going to end my rant... hopefully you can gain new insight on MY way of thinking.

[DucDave]

My hat is off to you Doc for sticking out this discussion. I gave up trying.
____________
Winston Churchill tried to convince the Leaders in the UK, US and France that Hitler posed a huge threat. He failed in convincing the allies in time. The result was WWII. Had he 'sold' harder and convinced the powers that be that a pre-emptive strike was needed and Hitler had been removed in 1941 the world would be different place. (There would likely be no Israel for example....)

We'll never know how getting Hitler out of power early would have changed the world.

And we'll never know how leaving Sadham in place and allowing the UN to manage the situation would have changed the world either.

History isn't written during the event...it will be interesting to have this discussion in 20 or 30 years.

[stevecbr900rr]

It always amazes me how pationate people get when Bush is brought up.

[TheIglu]

Remember, the voting public doesn't know anything (unless the results favor the argument).

He was elected by the country. Right?

Now the country wants us out of Iraq and thinks he isn't doing his job well. Right?

Pick one! Pick as you see fit! Dare I say it,,,,,, FLIP FLOP!!!!!

[Doc]

I for one don't really care about "W". I try to look at the bigger picture and spread the blame around.

[bergs]

Originally Posted by ZX-12R

Here is a case in point. People are queueing in on certain characteristics of your writing which is giving them a mental picture of you that you probably did not intend.

My friend, with all due respect, you are the only one that has outwardly critiqued the charecterisitcs of my writing...the rest was simply discussion.

[Josephd14]

Originally Posted by ZX-12R

Here is a case in point. People are queueing in on certain characteristics of your writing which is giving them a mental picture of you that you probably did not intend.

I'm getting this odd mental picture of a guy with a blue mohawk...


I've asked this question many times and never got a credible answer..
Someone tell/explain how the oil is tied into the reason we went in their, and where is all this stolen oil??



Also, Where the fuck is Ryan???

[TESTINGurTOMATO]

I'm getting this odd mental picture of a guy with a big mohawk...

Bergs ..... that you???

[TESTINGurTOMATO]

zx-12

actually I was just Bergs with the 'upset' comment

[RandyO]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

Remember, the voting public doesn't know anything (unless the results favor the argument).

He was elected by the country. Right?

Now the country wants us out of Iraq and thinks he isn't doing his job well. Right?

Pick one! Pick as you see fit! Dare I say it,,,,,, FLIP FLOP!!!!!

this country is a Republic, Geo W. is a Rebublican, not a Democrat or a Populist, he was elected to represent us with his ideas, not the odeas that may become popular, don't expect a republican to do what might be popular if it's different than the platform he originally ran on

[hammadown]

Why do we have these arguments on here? Not that Im innocent of this, I give my opinion as well, and probably too much. Not for nothing, though, but I have never once seen a person who started out arguing one side suddenly say, "holyshit, you are right! I agree with you now!" It is pretty much a comlete waste of time. If your fingers need exercise, diddle come clit or your ball sack or something.

PS for some reason Im in an angry mood this am, so I feel the need to be a dickface. :

[brendanp]

Originally Posted by hammadown

PS for some reason Im in an angry mood this am, so I feel the need to be a dickface. :

I was like that yesterday. I ended up smashing my house phone into bits!

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by hammadown

Why do we have these arguments on here? Not that Im innocent of this, I give my opinion as well, and probably too much. Not for nothing, though, but I have never once seen a person who started out arguing one side suddenly say, "holyshit, you are right! I agree with you now!" It is pretty much a comlete waste of time. If your fingers need exercise, diddle come clit or your ball sack or something.

PS for some reason Im in an angry mood this am, so I feel the need to be a dickface. :

Holy shit...you are right!

[TheIglu]

His state of the union address was mint.

[highsider]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

His state of the union address was mint.

I only watched the first half hour. That part was good.

[hammadown]

Originally Posted by DucDave

Holy shit...you are right!

Well played sir...well played!

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by Josephd14

I'm getting this odd mental picture of a guy with a blue mohawk...


I've asked this question many times and never got a credible answer..
Someone tell/explain how the oil is tied into the reason we went in their, and where is all this stolen oil??



Also, Where the fuck is Ryan???

haha...i've been debating this on here since i joined...i'm tired of this arguement....

who cares about beating this dead horse when there is so much new cool stuff going.....this is like the all time greatest super bowl of elections coming up...this week is the first signs i ahve seen the hillary may not get teh nomination....

[CBRGuru]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Sure thousands of people might have died because of his lies, but at least he didnt get head from a fat chick!

Priceless