[DucDave]

Originally Posted by TimTim

I actually just read this a few months back, its a great read. There's a conference coming up (in NYC) to shed some light on the topic. Here's some excerpts from the website...

"The global warming debate that the public and policymakers usually see is one-sided, dominated by government scientists and government organizations agenda-driven to find data that suggest a human impact on climate and to call for immediate government action, if only to fund their own continued research, but often to achieve political agendas entirely unrelated to the science of climate change. There is another side, but in recent years it has been denied a platform from which to speak."

"...an antidote to the one-sided and alarmist bias that pervades much of the current public policy debate..."

"...turn the debate toward sound science and economics, and away from hype and political manipulation..."

instead of reading the picket signs of hippie wackos, perhaps the media should consult a paleo-climatologist. "the past is the key to the future"

Yeah....when I read that book I thought to myself, well shit, here's a rational discussion about Global Warming that doesn't submit to mass hysteria and questions the assumptions that the doomsday naysayers are promoting.

Unfortunately, State of Fear is a novel written by Michael Crighton, the same author that brought us a slew of other science fiction novels. Entertaining? yes. Thought provoking? Certainly. Fact? Well, some of it is. But whether the conclusions are accurate remain to be seen.

The DaVincil Code certainly aligned with a lot of my beliefs about Christ and religion. But it too is a novel and has spawned a huge tourist trade and secondary industry. At the end of the day though, it is a work of fiction and as believable as it is the fundamental conclusion is a much a fantasy as the source material it attempts to disprove.

I've read about the upcoming conference and will be interested in the outcome.

M guess is that, like most things, there are elements of useful truth in both sides of the debate. We would probably serve ourselves well to reduce greenhouse gas, dependance on fossil fuels, and figuring out how to trap carbon more effectively. The problem is that until a sane discussion takes place we are at the hands of every whack job on both sides promoting their own schemes to save us all.

And if there is one thing I am sure of, the best thing to do when some one wants to save you is to run for your life!

[yzedf]

it is all a moot point. the average temp of the sun is increasing... must be our fault somehow.

[richw]

Actually in the last calander year the average world temp has

dropped .65 degrees C

reversing 80% of the total gain of the 20th century

in 1 year

To get a big grant you need to scare people
scientists are i n the grant business
the ivy covered halls produce only BS

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by richw

Actually in the last calander year the average world temp has

dropped .65 degrees C

reversing 80% of the total gain of the 20th century

in 1 year

To get a big grant you need to scare people
scientists are i n the grant business
the ivy covered halls produce only BS

Good example of creating a universal law from a single data point....

We prefer to get our data from politicians and fiction writers rather than scientists....

[highsider]

Here's a fun fact for all who care - according to Time magazine, a glacier extended as far as the state of Montana during the 1600's, which has since receded.

So - what did those fucking pilgrims do? Driving around in Chevy big blocks?

[l3uddha]

i just heard on the news, al gore says he invented gay.

[Pittenger5]

Weather Channel Founder Wants to Sue Al Gore | Al Gore, Eco, Global Warming | CitizenSugar - News and Politics

[RandyO]

wasn't the earth formed by a big ball of hot gas, molten rock, and the earth cooled to what it is now, isn't it really cooling, just as the sun will eventually burn out all it's energy and die


a little extra heat is actually extending the life of our planet

where is the fucking logic that global warming can do any lasting damage

a few people may have to move further away from the coast

[Kham]

nvm...

[vt625]

DucDave - I think this is what you were looking for Newsmax.com - Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back

[vt625]

There was a scientist that talked about global warming at UVM last year. His main point was that CO2 is not the main contributor ( if it even is at all) for temp change, but that the sun controls the earths temp and climate. They have been able to accurately predict weather months out based on sun spot activity. That makes a lot more sense to me than CO2.

[RandyO]

Originally Posted by vt625

There was a scientist that talked about global warming at UVM last year. His main point was that CO2 is not the main contributor ( if it even is at all) for temp change, but that the sun controls the earths temp and climate. They have been able to accurately predict weather months out based on sun spot activity. That makes a lot more sense to me than CO2.

I recently went to a seminar, maybe the same speaker but prolly not

water vapor is the # 1 greenhouse gas, all other greenhouse gasses combined are maybe 2% I don't remember the exact #, real low %

our historical data is so limited, even with what we have projected into the past with polar ice coring , who really to fuck knows

[Kham]

Originally Posted by vt625

There was a scientist that talked about global warming at UVM last year. His main point was that CO2 is not the main contributor ( if it even is at all) for temp change, but that the sun controls the earths temp and climate. They have been able to accurately predict weather months out based on sun spot activity. That makes a lot more sense to me than CO2.

Here you go!

"Nobody can show that there is no solar/Earth climate connection," he added. "But having said that, if there is one and if these records are representative, whatever connection exists is weak."

Sun Not a Global Warming Culprit, Study Says

[vt625]

I finally found the guys name - Dr. S Fred Singer.

Some good vids here

Fisher interview with PBS

Wikipedia on Dr Singer

[vt625]

"over the past eight years, temperatures have plateaued"

Interesting article for those that are keeping up with new developments.

[a13x]

If Global Warming is the modern boogie man / paper tiger to help keep people from treating the world like a giant toiliet, then I'm all for it! Sign me up!

Must say it's far nicer now-a-days to see more people concerned about the environment, recycling, gas-economy, and generally thinking a bit beyond their front yards. Sorta. A bit. Say what you want about A.Gore, but his movie and subsequent crusade has definitely raised the public awareness about our world.

[Kham]

nothing will matter in 2036 if Apophis hits earth. a third of the planet will be doom. i will be 65.

[TheIglu]

Lets just dump all our waste in the water and drive huge resource consuming vehicles because we are FUCKING PROUD AND AMERICAN! FUCK YEAH!

[R1slowflyer]

Anyone watch the Human footprint? i caught about 5 minutes of it last night. it was about how many cups of milk 1 person would drink in their life time and it was something like 13000 pints and they laid out all 1 pint cartons and it filed up quite a large area.

[vt625]

Originally Posted by a13x

If Global Warming is the modern boogie man / paper tiger to help keep people from treating the world like a giant toiliet, then I'm all for it! Sign me up!

Must say it's far nicer now-a-days to see more people concerned about the environment, recycling, gas-economy, and generally thinking a bit beyond their front yards. Sorta. A bit. Say what you want about A.Gore, but his movie and subsequent crusade has definitely raised the public awareness about our world.

I agree - to an extent. I like the fact that generally people are more aware of the world around them. That's really good. However, the fear tactics are not something I appreciate. Admittedly they are probably the only way for the general public to pay attention. Bottom line in my mind, is that we as people need to think about the things we do and the impact it has on our environment - locally and globally. Tread Lightly so to speak. Recycle what you can, buy and dispose things responsibly, etc... The world isn't going to blow up if you buy a truck, but do what you can to minimize your personal impact.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by a13x

If Global Warming is the modern boogie man / paper tiger to help keep people from treating the world like a giant toiliet, then I'm all for it! Sign me up!

Must say it's far nicer now-a-days to see more people concerned about the environment, recycling, gas-economy, and generally thinking a bit beyond their front yards. Sorta. A bit. Say what you want about A.Gore, but his movie and subsequent crusade has definitely raised the public awareness about our world.

on principle i agree...but at what cost? a lot of the things being done do more harm to the planet and our country then good...

state run recycling programs cost taxes payers tons of money and actually do more harm to the environment then they do good...except for some materials it is better for our environment to bury trash then it is to recycle...so in the end you rape the economy and do more harm then good. Not to mention hardly anyone else int he world i going to join in...

look at ethanol from corn...theres a real winner lol

i'm glad people are thinking about this stuff but they need to stop listening to dolts like gore and use their heads...

more need to be done with how we manufacture these products and be less wasteful. Like Poland Springs and other bottling companies coming up with new bottles that use 20% less plastic....and looking into other forms of fuel besides ethanol from corn and battery powered cars.....

time to look into hemp if you ask me......the first model T was made with and ran on it..

"Ford recognized the utility of the hemp plant. He constructed a car of resin stiffened hemp fiber, and even ran the car on ethanol made from hemp. Ford knew that hemp could produce vast economic resources if widely cultivated."

Hempcar.org-Henry Ford

[vt625]

Exactly. Ethanol is a joke. it takes more crop land away from other food sources which drives up the cost of that. And it sucks as fuel. We have to be careful to think ahead of what the consequences are to our actions.

I don't know much about the recycling programs and the harm they do , but it wouldn't honestly surprise me if they are a sham. But if they are, lets look at how to actually recycle things in a good process.

As for the cars, its a whole other discussion. battery powered cars are not the answer. the batt / ICE hybrids (gas or diesel or whatever fuel) are certainly a step in the right direction. With the main exception being what to do with the batteries when they die. But the idea of using wasted energy to save and reuse like from regenerative braking makes a lot of sense. It's like using windmills or ocean wave generators to create electricity. The energy is there, we just need to harness it. That's the direction to be looking imo. Look for the "free" energy. We also need to focus on industry and other fossil fuel users more than personal cars. Think about the difference a 10% increase in mileage on a freight truck or boat would make in fuel savings. HUGE. Much more than you or I getting 10% better mileage in our cars. Over the road trucks, city buses, construction equipment, boats, cruise ships, airplanes, tanks, etc... all use massive amounts of fuel. Certainly your avg car is much more optimized than those. Lets focus on the things that can gain us some real improvements. Not mom and pa's crown vic...

[Kham]

Originally Posted by vt625

Exactly. Ethanol is a joke. it takes more crop land away from other food sources which drives up the cost of that. And it sucks as fuel. We have to be careful to think ahead of what the consequences are to our actions.

i heard that the new supersonic jet will be using Ethanol? that ain't helping either.

Certainly your avg car is much more optimized than those. Lets focus on the things that can gain us some real improvements. Not mom and pa's crown vic...

well if everyone has crown vic, don't they add up? how many trucks and tanks are there running every seconds? why not focus on both, big and small?

[TheIglu]

300 million people in the US, two thirds own a car and you don't think consumer fuel efficiency is important?

Bottom line: People in this country are too stubborn and unwilling to give up anything in their personal lives to have any positive changes happen that aren't forced down their throat.

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by vt625

Exactly. Ethanol is a joke. it takes more crop land away from other food sources which drives up the cost of that. And it sucks as fuel. We have to be careful to think ahead of what the consequences are to our actions.

I don't know much about the recycling programs and the harm they do , but it wouldn't honestly surprise me if they are a sham. But if they are, lets look at how to actually recycle things in a good process.

As for the cars, its a whole other discussion. battery powered cars are not the answer. the batt / ICE hybrids (gas or diesel or whatever fuel) are certainly a step in the right direction. With the main exception being what to do with the batteries when they die. But the idea of using wasted energy to save and reuse like from regenerative braking makes a lot of sense. It's like using windmills or ocean wave generators to create electricity. The energy is there, we just need to harness it. That's the direction to be looking imo. Look for the "free" energy. We also need to focus on industry and other fossil fuel users more than personal cars. Think about the difference a 10% increase in mileage on a freight truck or boat would make in fuel savings. HUGE. Much more than you or I getting 10% better mileage in our cars. Over the road trucks, city buses, construction equipment, boats, cruise ships, airplanes, tanks, etc... all use massive amounts of fuel. Certainly your avg car is much more optimized than those. Lets focus on the things that can gain us some real improvements. Not mom and pa's crown vic...

the problem with battery cars is what to do with the batterys afterwards

I guess first you need to decide whats important, gas mileage or the environment...if it's tech environment the old discarded batteries do much more damage then the pollution from fossil fuels....

i'd like to see the main focus on making cars more fuel efficient first...then look into alternatives....and a multi-purpose alternative that makes sense and not just makes us feel better...

eventually we need to ween off fossil fuels but we ned to be smart about it....hybrids and the most other alternatives are "band-aid" fixes that make us feel better...

like the dumbass actors driving their hybrids around town yet charter private jets anytime they go anywhere....it's a joke