[richw]

Temps have not risen since 1998 actually have fallen

If you kicked your State legislators in the balls who mindless follow whatever California does and eliminate

Ethanol and Oxygenated fuels out of New England your fuel costs would go down $ .20 and your mileage would go up 15% for a net 20% gain in dollars per mile.

If you are a tree hugger worried about global climate change then just burn the entire corn plant in your homes or electric plants not convert it to ethanol inefficiently and drag it around so your car works worse.

Oh I am sorry I forgot tree huggers don't want you driving so costly personal transportation is the goal not the side effect.

[vt625]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

300 million people in the US, two thirds own a car and you don't think consumer fuel efficiency is important?

Bottom line: People in this country are too stubborn and unwilling to give up anything in their personal lives to have any positive changes happen that aren't forced down their throat.

I absolutely think that consumer fuel efficiency is important. But don't you think that the small gains that are being made could be far out weighed by improvements in freight fuel economy? I don't know of any stats, and would love to see some, but lets look at freight trucks. How many of those are on the road at any given time? They prob avg in the single digits for mileage (18 wheelers, trash trucks, cube trucks, etc...) vs the consumer fleet average which must be at least in the high teens. If we could increase the freight mileage, wouldn't that make a larger immediate impact than creating new cars that people aren't buying? Make a freight truck that gets better mileage and industry will buy them because their costs go down. They want every advantage they can have to keep profits up. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think that all sources of fuel consumption have to be looked at and improved. No question. But there will be no one answer, and I don't think that focusing on consumer vehicles is the best place to start, thats all. It is a huge uphill battle to get the avg American to modify their lifestyle to help the environment. So why start with them? Make the improvements with people that want to help. Truckers may not give a shit about the enviro, but they sure do care about fuel mileage!

[vt625]

the problem with battery cars is what to do with the batterys afterwards

I agree. Maybe they should be using capacitors or some other way to store the electricity. But having some way to capture the regen braking forces makes so much sense, that we def need to pursue it - battery storage or otherwise. We use batteries in so many things, we need to figure out a way to dispose / recycle them regardless of their use in cars.

[TheIglu]

Originally Posted by vt625

I agree. Maybe they should be using capacitors or some other way to store the electricity. But having some way to capture the regen braking forces makes so much sense, that we def need to pursue it - battery storage or otherwise. We use batteries in so many things, we need to figure out a way to dispose / recycle them regardless of their use in cars.

The slew of hibrids out now currently have regenerative braking.

Capacitors don't have the ability to store enough energy.

18 wheelers have some of the best fuel efficiency on the road per pound. Remember, they have to be made to haul their max load with regards to engine power.

Lets say for a moment that for every 100 people, there is a single 18 wheeler. Sounds reasonable, right? (and probably WAY more people than that in reality)

Average car gets 23mpg. Average truck gets what, 2?

So for every mile that those hundred people drive, they use 4.34 gallons of gas. And that truck used half a gallon. What do you think is the biggest consumer? What is more flexible with other means of transportation? What is more of a necessity? Do the trucks have the option to take the bus, walk or buy a 4-banger?

Take a look at a modern frightliner. See what goes into making them as efficient as possible. Notice the entire cab is made of aluminum to save weight. Do you see aluminum cars driving around?

Do you see regular cars out there that struggle up long hills because they aren't grossly overpowered for the basic function of transportation like you do a tractor trailer?

The cars we all drive ARE the problem. Same with our home heating systems. Improve those and there will be no need to drill all over the world for more oil. We'll let the other countries fight over it as we watch on the sidelines and remember what is used to be like.

[richw]

Does anyone know how to process liberals into fuel?

[TheIglu]

No need to do anything about fuel economy if the government truely stays conservative. The market will take care of itself.

(of course we know both sides are trying like hell to get the vote of the poor so they will do anything to convince people that the gas price situation can be remedied without sacrificies)

[vt625]

The slew of hibrids out now currently have regenerative braking.

I know, I own one. That's my point. that idea or system is great. Why let the energy go to waste? if we could find a way to store the energy without batteries, then we would be able to increase mileage without the disposal issue of batteries.

Your point about mileage per pound is interesting. I did a quick search and found this chart. If you add up the trucks and rail figures, you get about 250 billion miles. divide by 2mpg and you get 125 billion gallons. If you take the passenger vehicles and include the "other 2 axle" miles as well and divide by 23mpg, you get 115 billion gallons. Lower. So if nothing else, they are very similar. Not quite the picture you paint. Please correct me if my math is wrong based on these old numbers from '93. It's all very interesting.

I think the gov't should be looking at all these fuel consumers, including home heat like you mention. Not just focusing on passenger cars. That's all.

[TheIglu]

I'll have to update my numbers:

Average MPG of a 26,000lb+ tractor trailer: 5.3

Trains should not be counted as they use less than a third of the fuel per ton-mile as a tractor trailer. Also they reduce congestion on roadways which decreases realized MPG exponentially.

[Honclfibr]

Originally Posted by vt625

Make a freight truck that gets better mileage and industry will buy them because their costs go down. They want every advantage they can have to keep profits up. Maybe I'm wrong.

You're not wrong and there are thousands of engineers working every day to do just that. It's just not something that's advertised on television or anywhere else because it's not consumer related. I've worked in that industry on fuel-saving devices and you can bet that any improvement that saves even a fraction of a percentage in freight fuel cost is being studied and developed.