[Stoneman]

Just wondering if you sir, have any idea how many shovels-full of snow your fuckin' global warming is...

[TheIglu]

He invented snow.

[Stoneman]

'...according to reports from the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) that reveal that almost all the allegedly “lost” ice has come back. A NOAA report shows that ice levels which had shrunk from 5 million square miles in January 2007 to just 1.5 million square miles in October, are almost back to their original levels.

Moreover, a Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming. The Daily express recalls the photograph of polar bears clinging on to a melting iceberg which has been widely hailed as proof of the need to fight climate change and has been used by former Vice President Al Gore during his "Inconvenient Truth" lectures about mankind’s alleged impact on the global climate. Gore fails to mention that the photograph was taken in the month of August when melting is normal. Or that the polar bear population has soared in recent years. As winter roars in across the Northern Hemisphere, Mother Nature seems to have joined the ranks of the skeptics.

As the Express notes, scientists are saying the northern Hemisphere has endured its coldest winter in decades, adding that snow cover across the area is at its greatest since 1966. The newspaper cites the one exception — Western Europe, which had, until the weekend when temperatures plunged to as low as -10 C in some places, been basking in unseasonably warm weather.
Around the world, vast areas have been buried under some of the heaviest snowfalls in decades. Central and southern China, the United States, and Canada were hit hard by snowstorms. In China, snowfall was so heavy that over 100,000 houses collapsed under the weight of snow. Jerusalem, Damascus, Amman, and northern Saudi Arabia report the heaviest falls in years and below-zero temperatures. In Afghanistan, snow and freezing weather killed 120 people. Even Baghdad had a snowstorm, the first in the memory of most residents.

AFP news reports icy temperatures have just swept through south China, stranding 180,000 people and leading to widespread power cuts just as the area was recovering from the worst weather in 50 years, the government said Monday. The latest cold snap has taken a severe toll in usually temperate Yunnan province, which has been struck by heavy snowfalls since Thursday, a government official from the provincial disaster relief office told AFP.
Twelve people have died there, state Xinhua news agency reported, and four remained missing as of Saturday. An ongoing record-long spell of cold weather in Vietnam's northern region, which started on Jan. 14, has killed nearly 60,000 cattle, mainly bull and buffalo calves, local press reported Monday. By Feb. 17, the spell had killed a total of 59,962 cattle in the region, including 7,349 in the Ha Giang province, 6,400 in Lao Cai, and 5,571 in Bac Can province, said Hoang Kim Giao, director of the Animal Husbandry Department under the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development, according to the Pioneer newspaper. In Britain the temperatures plunged to -10 C in central England, according to the Express, which reports that experts say that February could end up as one of the coldest in Britain in the past 10 years with the freezing night-time conditions expected to stay around a frigid -8 C until at least the middle of the week. And the BBC reports that a bus company's efforts to cut global warming emissions have led to services being disrupted by cold weather.
Meanwhile Athens News reports that a raging snow storm that blanketed most of Greece over the weekend and continued into the early morning hours on Monday, plunging the country into sub-zero temperatures. The agency reported that public transport buses were at a standstill on Monday in the wider Athens area, while ships remained in ports, public services remained closed, and schools and courthouses in the more severely-stricken prefectures were also closed. Scores of villages, mainly on the island of Crete, and in the prefectures of Evia, Argolida, Arcadia, Lakonia, Viotia, and the Cyclades islands were snowed in. More than 100 villages were snowed-in on the island of Crete and temperatures in Athens dropped to -6 C before dawn, while the coldest temperatures were recorded in Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria and Florina, where they plunged to -12 C...'

If global warming gets any worse we'll all freeze to death!!!

[Stoneman]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

He invented snow.

HA!

Of course the 'crusaders' will now tell us that the cold temps and record snowfall is all part of global warming. As is normal temps. It's all part of it! Run! Run for your lives! Follow me to freedom!

[wylee]

Stop pissing in my corn flakes.

I'm still hoping for that Virginia climate I was promised up here in the northern sticks.

[snowborder]

more snow Friday night!!!

[DucDave]

Hey Jay...where do you get that article? I'd like to see the original.

Sounds a lot like the point the Michael Crighton was making in



I am a complete idiot in trying to determine where the truth lies but I'm pretty sure Gore doesn't have it all right...

[bergs]

Quoted from another thread that was posted many moons ago:

Originally Posted by bergs

People,
The good Mother Earth has been around for billions of years....humans have been around for, what, 20,000 years or so...?...Point is, it's the weather!!
We have absolutely no way to figure out what's happening now or what's going to happen 30, 50 or 723 years from now.

It's a crapshoot. People should realize that we're just along for the ride....Mother's going to be the one who dictates 'who and what' with the weather, not any of us.

Until we figure out how to control the weather, then, and only then, will we be able to accurately predict what's going to happen....Until then, just sit back and enjoy the ride...

There's no such thing as global warming or cooling as we define it.

What we're seeing is a natural process that has been going on for many years before humans even remotely existed.

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by bergs

Quoted from another thread that was posted many moons ago:

There's no such thing as global warming or cooling as we define it.

What we're seeing is a natural process that has been going on for many years before humans even remotely existed.

I really want to believe that...but what do you say to the hundreds of really smart people...some maybe even smarter than you...who believe otherwise?

That's why I like to try and follow these articles to the source...and then follow their data to the source. So often its impossible to get to any real science but there is a lot of 'real science' that supports the notion that man is having an impact on the climate.

From there it gets confusing as hell. For example, one arguement is that sheep and cattle are, by far, the greatest contributors to greenhouse gas so really, all we have to do is kill all the cows. Do you believe that? Fucked if I know...

[Pittenger5]

Originally Posted by DucDave

I really want to believe that...but what do you say to the hundreds of really smart people...some maybe even smarter than you...who believe otherwise?

And in response, what do THEY say to the hundreds of OTHER really smart people that say its completely natural?

Fact of the matter is, the world at one time was covered in ice, i believe it was called the Ice Age. Also theres evidence that the earth was extremely hot and temperate at some point. Im a firm believer in this is a natural cycle coming around again. Humans mayve pushed things along, but at the same time, nature moves in a pendulum fashion as well.

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

And in response, what do THEY say to the hundreds of OTHER really smart people that say its completely natural?

EXACTLY!

Fact of the matter is, the world at one time was covered in ice, i believe it was called the Ice Age. Also theres evidence that the earth was extremely hot and temperate at some point. Im a firm believer in this is a natural cycle coming around again. Humans mayve pushed things along, but at the same time, nature moves in a pendulum fashion as well.

And I guess this is the crux of the issue. How much? How fast? Is it reversable? Is it important? Should this concern become (more than it already is) a driving force in our politics, economics and social/moral fabric?

Thats the part that brings me up short...

Still hopin' Jay can point me to the source of his post!!!

[Pittenger5]

Theres definite global warming and global cooling. Is it something us as humans 100% caused, not a chance in hell. Is it something us as humans can 100% stop, not a chance in hell.

Thats what I believe, thats what a TON of scientists believe, theres plenty of evidence that seems for every 1 scientist that says we caused global warming and can change it, theres 10 that say we didnt and cant. But thats not getting Al Gore more publicity and money.

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Theres definite global warming and global cooling. Is it something us as humans 100% caused, not a chance in hell. Is it something us as humans can 100% stop, not a chance in hell.

Thats what I believe, thats what a TON of scientists believe, theres plenty of evidence that seems for every 1 scientist that says we caused global warming and can change it, theres 10 that say we didnt and cant. But thats not getting Al Gore more publicity and money.

You're way smatah than me...

...cus I didn't think anyone on any side ever said that man was 100% responsible for global warming...or that that humans can stop 100% of global warming.

Stupid me. I thought it was a question of 'degree' not 'absolutes'. And that the people who are concerned are trying to encourage the rest of us to consider the economic, social and political impact of doing nothing or doing something. That's what I thought it was about...

How much simpler it is to think of it in absolutes...!

Thank you!

Oh....and it's also good to know that a TON, (~11 actual scientists at ~180 lbs each), of scientists believe as you do in the absolute that we didn't cause global warning. And for those 11 there is only 1 scientist who believes we caused it completely. With that ratio we ought to be able to shut the whinning babies up pretty easy.

(..and yes, I am a dick...)

[Pittenger5]

We should, but theres a lot of dumb people in the world.
And look at the news, its all, global warming caused by this, and caused by that. CAUSED being the key word. CAUSED implies 100%. The news never says Increased, or sped up, they say pollution CAUSES.

Im just saying, too many people think by buying a Prius we'll stop global warming.
On that note, how many people buy Prius's to help the environment dont realize the production of a Prius (from the battery cells) causes 6 times the pollution of producing a regular car? Im willing to bet not many, thus they all buy into it.

[dhuze]

Originally Posted by wylee

Stop pissing in my corn flakes.

I'm still hoping for that Virginia climate I was promised up here in the northern sticks.

I'm in Virginia right now. Its only 18 out and rain and snow. I think you are getting the Virginia climate.



And Jay, Al gore may not have invented the internet, but he did make up global warming.

[Stoneman]

Originally Posted by DucDave

Still hopin' Jay can point me to the source of his post!!!

It was in a rag my pops gets. I think it was Newsmax or some shit. You don't need that though. Just Google 'global COOLING'...

[DucDave]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

It was in a rag my pops gets. I think it was Newsmax or some shit. You don't need that though. Just Google 'global COOLING'...

Shite....

...did I mention I'm lazy?

I'm lazy.


Maybe tomorrow!!!

[R7]

It's a pattern, just look at the long term weather patterns? A warmer winter always equals more snow...and this winter has been far from cold. I can't ever remember a year when the ice in my area was never at some point safe to go on...never happened this year.

There was a show on discovery a few weeks ago about global warming and the New England area. Just a degree or 2 average warmer per year (most importantly keeps the ocean a degree or 2 warmer...and you New Englanders should know what that meens) can cause stronger and more frequent snowstorms

[mzdagrl]

Originally Posted by R7

It's a pattern, just look at the long term weather patterns? A warmer winter always equals more snow...and this winter has been far from cold. I can't ever remember a year when the ice in my area was never at some point safe to go on...never happened this year.

There was a show on discovery a few weeks ago about global warming and the New England area. Just a degree or 2 average warmer per year (most importantly keeps the ocean a degree or 2 warmer...and you New Englanders should know what that meens) can cause stronger and more frequent snowstorms

+1 IIRC, global warming creates more severe extremes of weather throughout the year and around the world. Mor frequent and severe snowstorms, more severe hurricanes, more frequent tornadoes... It basically fucks with the jet stream....

[R1slowflyer]

My view on global warming is that this pattern of weather has in fact happened once already when humans existed at least in recoded history we just had no way to record the data that scientists are now seeing. What we are seeing now is all those really smart people can now monitor through all different types of equipment what is happening and they are basing everything they see on nothing, because they dont have enough physical data going back far enough to compare it to. They can look at numbers all day and say this can happen or if this happens then this is gonna happen but the truth is without previous data they have nothing to compare it to.

I agree with bergs 100% those really smart people are smart, but some of the smartest people i know are stupid in the fact that they have no common sense. Its easy to look at numbers and say this is gonna happen, but without those numbers going back throughout the period of the human race or at least recorded history it is in fact a crap shoot. Everything that we as a race have used is all derived from the planet itself.

[naked-daytrader]

Originally Posted by mzdagrl

It basically fucks with the jet stream....

Is that your scientific opinion?

[mzdagrl]

Originally Posted by naked-daytrader

Is that your scientific opinion?

As scientific as I get. Hence the IIRC at the beginning. It has been a long time since I've paid attention to all this global warming debate crap.

[highsider]

The sky is falling!

[TheIglu]

I'd rather proceed with caution and restraint only to find out that global warming is natural than the other way around.

Doesn't matter much though, air pollution has many other effects other than global warming that we know are directly linked.

Btw, that Prius article about pollution neglects to take into account the decades of pollution traditional automobile manufacturing creates.

[TimTim]

Originally Posted by DucDave

Sounds a lot like the point the Michael Crighton was making in

I actually just read this a few months back, its a great read. There's a conference coming up (in NYC) to shed some light on the topic. Here's some excerpts from the website...

"The global warming debate that the public and policymakers usually see is one-sided, dominated by government scientists and government organizations agenda-driven to find data that suggest a human impact on climate and to call for immediate government action, if only to fund their own continued research, but often to achieve political agendas entirely unrelated to the science of climate change. There is another side, but in recent years it has been denied a platform from which to speak."

"...an antidote to the one-sided and alarmist bias that pervades much of the current public policy debate..."

"...turn the debate toward sound science and economics, and away from hype and political manipulation..."

instead of reading the picket signs of hippie wackos, perhaps the media should consult a paleo-climatologist. "the past is the key to the future"