[zombie]

5 years later and we're still there
No WMD's
Osama bin laden still hikng around somewhere
4 thousand dead american and coalition servicemen and women and
countless dead Iraqi civilians
Oil prices skyrocketing
economy heading to the shitter
and the administration thinks everything is great.
Remember November time for regime change at home

[Mongoose441]

Originally Posted by zombie

5 years later and we're still there
No WMD's
Osama bin laden still hikng around somewhere
4 thousand dead american and coalition servicemen and women and
countless dead Iraqi civilians
Oil prices skyrocketing
economy heading to the shitter
and the administration thinks everything is great.
Remember November time for regime change at home

+100%

[taxonomy]

+1

[highsider]

Yep, what Mick said.

I really think GW Bush will be remembered universally, by the whole country, Republicans and Democrats alike, as the worst fucking president in the history of this country. I'm sure my daughter will think so, as she helps pay for Bush's war decades after it ends.

[TimTim]

-we ousted their douchebag president
-Al Queda took a strong foothold
-we killed alot of those fcks and were getting really good at it
-without going into a longwinded message about what ive seen or done, just understand that you dont know whats really going on here.

[agrabau]

Everything's been Super.

[TimTim]

Originally Posted by agrabau

Everything's been Super.

its WAR.

[TheIglu]

Originally Posted by TimTim

-we ousted their douchebag president
-Al Queda took a strong foothold
-we killed alot of those fcks and were getting really good at it
-without going into a longwinded message about what ive seen or done, just understand that you dont know whats really going on here.

-When is someone gunna oust OUR douchebag president?
-I guess you didn't read the news this week about Al Queda in Iraq
-Killing people is a good reason to kill people, right
-Go ahead, explain. We've been getting "explained to" for 5 years and it STILL isn't making it right.

[TimTim]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

-When is someone gunna oust OUR douchebag president?
-I guess you didn't read the news this week about Al Queda in Iraq
-Killing people is a good reason to kill people, right
-Go ahead, explain. We've been getting "explained to" for 5 years and it STILL isn't making it right.

A. Bush was reelected (after the war started and when more Americans were generally patriotic), and in the US we elect a president every 4 years.
B. I don't really know where youre getting that from...Al Queda are not people. Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
C.What haven't you figured out in 5 years? There's nothing I can say to sway you I'm sure.(not that I care)

We're here.So maybe a full on invasion of Iraq was a bit extreme, maybe not. People get paid alot of money to figure that shit out. 27 years old, sitting behind your computer in MA, how much do you REALLY know. Don't you think we should make the most of it? We owe it to the Iraqis, kinda of.

[TheIglu]

Originally Posted by TimTim

A. Bush was reelected (after the war started and when more Americans were generally patriotic), and in the US we elect a president every 4 years.
B. I don't really know where youre getting that from...Al Queda are not people. Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
C.What haven't you figured out in 5 years? There's nothing I can say to sway you I'm sure.(not that I care)

We're here.So maybe a full on invasion of Iraq was a bit extreme, maybe not. People get paid alot of money to figure that shit out. 27 years old, sitting behind your computer in MA, how much do you REALLY know. Don't you think we should make the most of it? We owe it to the Iraqis, kinda of.

Fine, then YOU can owe it to the Iraqi's. Leave me out of it. I don't give a rats ass if they die. I just don't want US to be doing the killing. Let someone else handle the shitstorm over there. We are obviously gaining nothing from the entire situation.

[TheIglu]

So the next time a liberal is elected by majority, then will the country be wrong?

BTW, the majority voted for Al Gore, not Bush.

Patriotic? More like afraid and paranoid. Patriotic does not involve putting gas prices and the economy over our boys in uniform in two wars over seas.

[eboos]

Let someone else handle the shitstorm over there.

The would be the exact wrong thing to do. We would gain plenty from the entire situation if the American people did not desire a TV dinner victory. Creating stability over there is not going to happen overnight and you can not expect Iraq to be the new tourist destination in just 5 years after living under a genosidal dictator.

What has been gained by all of the years of sitting back and doing nothing? Our enemies have a 40+ year head start on destabilizing the area, sorry Bush couldn't fix it in the time frame that you expected.

[richw]

For all the Bush haters , regardless, we are going to get CHANGE because he can't run again. Its a demo talking point "change" because we are getting it one way or another.

WMD's They were there then they are not and Saddam wanted Iran to believe they were there to keep Iran at bay. He made a bad gamble that others wouldn't invade for the same reason. Also minimal WMD's have been found and some evidence of passed large scale efforts.

Al Qaeda There is only 1 thing worse then war on foreign territory that is war on your territory. Since 911 so far so good.

If we have shown the world no political will, it is that we are too screwed up to wrestle down our energy problems. What side does No drilling, no coal burning, no nukes come from?

Guess what Children there has been a recession at almost every change of a decade starting around the 8th year and continuing until around year 1 or 2. Here it is again, right on schedule. It may be worse this time because of the USA manufacturing fleeing the country, both political parties have their fingerprints on that one.

I am terribly sorry for the dead and wounded we have suffered. If I was running the show there would be more dead Iraqis and less dead USA troops. The media and their pals are the ones that we try to minimise the carnage for. I believe the result is that more people die because the left wing harangue encourages the enemy to fight on. The USA should have another true Soldiers bill of rights like after WW11 where returning soldiers could go to school including room and board for their families. One of the reasons for the economic boon that lasted 20+ years was the number of college educated ex service men launched on the economy. so its really a win win.

God bless them all

[KillBill]

We're not in a recession, we're in a "rough patch"
according to Mr. Bush

[Doc]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

-When is someone gunna oust OUR douchebag president?
-I guess you didn't read the news this week about Al Queda in Iraq
-Killing people is a good reason to kill people, right
-Go ahead, explain. We've been getting "explained to" for 5 years and it STILL isn't making it right.

-VOTE, Protest, do what you can. (It is a FREE country without fear of death because you can speak your mind. Unlike the middle east)
-Do you believe everything you hear on the news? Don't you think it is kinda skewed to what sells?
-Killing people sucks, when you have a reason it sometimes has to be done. You wanna do it here or over there?
- Explain... I can't, you won't listen.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

Fine, then YOU can owe it to the Iraqi's. Leave me out of it. I don't give a rats ass if they die. I just don't want US to be doing the killing. Let someone else handle the shitstorm over there. We are obviously gaining nothing from the entire situation.

You are left out of it.

I do give a rats ass.

No one else is capable of handling the shit storm.

It will take longer than you realize (and are willing to put up with) to see the fruits of the sacrifices we have made for that shithole.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

So the next time a liberal is elected by majority, then will the country be wrong?

BTW, the majority voted for Al Gore, not Bush.

Patriotic? More like afraid and paranoid. Patriotic does not involve putting gas prices and the economy over our boys in uniform in two wars over seas.

The Gas prices and the Ecomomy has more to do with Oil company profits than it does the Wars.

Diesel costs less to manufacture... why is it more than Gas?

[Doc]

Originally Posted by eboos

The would be the exact wrong thing to do. We would gain plenty from the entire situation if the American people did not desire a TV dinner victory. Creating stability over there is not going to happen overnight and you can not expect Iraq to be the new tourist destination in just 5 years after living under a genosidal dictator.

What has been gained by all of the years of sitting back and doing nothing? Our enemies have a 40+ year head start on destabilizing the area, sorry Bush couldn't fix it in the time frame that you expected.

+1000

The problem is the government led the masses to believe it was going to be a "TV dinner victory"

Hell the first Gulf War was sucessful in the eyes of the American People BECAUSE it was so short and had less Casualties.

War is Hell boys. It isn't won overnight.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by richw

For all the Bush haters , regardless, we are going to get CHANGE because he can't run again. Its a demo talking point "change" because we are getting it one way or another.

WMD's They were there then they are not and Saddam wanted Iran to believe they were there to keep Iran at bay. He made a bad gamble that others wouldn't invade for the same reason. Also minimal WMD's have been found and some evidence of passed large scale efforts.

Al Qaeda There is only 1 thing worse then war on foreign territory that is war on your territory. Since 911 so far so good.

If we have shown the world no political will, it is that we are too screwed up to wrestle down our energy problems. What side does No drilling, no coal burning, no nukes come from?

Guess what Children there has been a recession at almost every change of a decade starting around the 8th year and continuing until around year 1 or 2. Here it is again, right on schedule. It may be worse this time because of the USA manufacturing fleeing the country, both political parties have their fingerprints on that one.

I am terribly sorry for the dead and wounded we have suffered. If I was running the show there would be more dead Iraqis and less dead USA troops. The media and their pals are the ones that we try to minimise the carnage for. I believe the result is that more people die because the left wing harangue encourages the enemy to fight on. The USA should have another true Soldiers bill of rights like after WW11 where returning soldiers could go to school including room and board for their families. One of the reasons for the economic boon that lasted 20+ years was the number of college educated ex service men launched on the economy. so its really a win win.

God bless them all

I love this man!

[bigred875]

like or not the war is soemthing that needs to be dealt with regardless of how you feel about it and unfortunately neither Hillary nor Obama have plan for dealing with it...

regime change....sure...but who? Obama? Hillary? please!

[Kham]

the only problem i have is if this war effects the bad economy. i don't know the really answer to that. i probably dont care much who's eating who unless im in the right position.

i don't believe nobody is encouraging the true enemy to fight on. we're just making more enemy by saying you're not with us you're against us. at the least it's not the way to make friends by showing tough attitude i dont think.

sometimes the best change is no change at all?

[TheIglu]

Originally Posted by Doc

It will take longer than you realize (and are willing to put up with) to see the fruits of the sacrifices we have made for that shithole.

I sure hope so.

In the meantime, OBL is still on the loose and nobody seems to be invading any countries to get THAT taken care of.

I don't think we should pack up and leave. I do think that countries like Spain and England need to step it up and handle the situation. They were attacked too.


Oil company profits?

Take a class in economics (or 3, but trust me, it'll be dry and boring) and realize that the profits the oil COMPANIES (yes, they are businesses, in BUSINESS to make MONEY) are making a VERY reasonable profit.

I was referring to oil prices and the economy dominating the concerns of the American voters over Iraq or the war on terror. I was not trying to link Iraq with oil prices.

Rich, if we (as in the oil companies) drilled for oil in Alaska, who would buy the oil? Let's look at it this way: If you could sell the oil for CHEAP to Americans because they refuse to pay high prices for it or sell it to the rest of the world who is paying market rate, who would you sell to?

The US government is not, should not and hopefully will never be a utility provider. Have you seen what it has done with other government regulation? Farming? Healthcare? Welfare? Taxes?

The government is NOT our babysitter, waiting to swoop in to make everything better anytime we are the slightest bit inconvenienced. If we spent 1/4 of the money spent on the Iraq war up until now on alternative energy research AND hunting OBL, I'm willing to bet that we'd be on a path that would be much easier to "stay the course" with.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

I sure hope so.

In the meantime, OBL is still on the loose and nobody seems to be invading any countries to get THAT taken care of.

I don't think we should pack up and leave. I do think that countries like Spain and England need to step it up and handle the situation. They were attacked too.


Oil company profits?

Take a class in economics (or 3, but trust me, it'll be dry and boring) and realize that the profits the oil COMPANIES (yes, they are businesses, in BUSINESS to make MONEY) are making a VERY reasonable profit.

I was referring to oil prices and the economy dominating the concerns of the American voters over Iraq or the war on terror. I was not trying to link Iraq with oil prices.

Rich, if we (as in the oil companies) drilled for oil in Alaska, who would buy the oil? Let's look at it this way: If you could sell the oil for CHEAP to Americans because they refuse to pay high prices for it or sell it to the rest of the world who is paying market rate, who would you sell to?

The US government is not, should not and hopefully will never be a utility provider. Have you seen what it has done with other government regulation? Farming? Healthcare? Welfare? Taxes?

The government is NOT our babysitter, waiting to swoop in to make everything better anytime we are the slightest bit inconvenienced. If we spent 1/4 of the money spent on the Iraq war up until now on alternative energy research AND hunting OBL, I'm willing to bet that we'd be on a path that would be much easier to "stay the course" with.

OBL may be on the loose but is that figure head the real concern? We do have Troops in Afganistan, we are looking for him.
It is the old "needle in a Haystack" and I think we are more concerned about stability in the region than we are going after someone's head (hence leaving Saddam in Power after the first Gulf War)

I agree others should step up! Let's here more of that rather than "We need to drop everything and run".

I am not an economics person (i hate math) so I will defer to you, BUT the American people are indifferent, sure they bitch and moan about the price of gas but they will pay what they have to to drive their Big trucks and other luxuries (motorcycles, boats, owning 2 cars etc)

Maybe the sky rocketing gas prices will help auto makers realize they need to make more fuel effiecent vehicles or we all need to start looking at alternative fuels.

[richw]

I read in Popular Mechanics that if everything was 40MPG that would equal all the oil bought from the towel heads and Venezuela.

I wince when I say this but a larger interpretation of the Governments role is to protect the public fromexplotive situations that the individual can not control.

Government lease Anwar California, Florida so oil companies can sell into the USA at 2 times there producer cost which even in the far north would mean 45 to 50 dollar pricing.

[g®eg]