[-jro-]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

I was really hoping our first black president was going to be Colin Powell. The more I learn about what he did in the Bush admin, the more I like his stances. Bush/Cheney (really just Cheney) did some serious bullshit in the signing documents and DOJ, Powell resigned over it (along with quite a few other people).

yea, I would've voted for Colin Powell over any other candidate too- unfortunately for us, he's waaaayy too smart to run for president hah.

[Erebus]

I will probably cast a defensive vote for McCain. I hope he picks a good VP like Romney that he can put in charge of the economy and can work his economic magic. But mostly at this point it's about judges. As many as 4 are rumored to retire in the next term and we kept a Constitutionally "Guaranteed" Right by a mere 1 vote with the Heller case.

[scottieducati]

+1 for Ron Paul, the only politician I've ever heard who talked straight, and knew WTF was important and what wasn't.

Too bad most people didn't learn more about him and give him a chance.

I love how neither candidate will even go near the #1 problem with this country... the value of the dollar and the fact that we're way, way past broke, and nobody has a plan to stop it. But they will keep making $$ out of thin air to fund this war (republicans) or stupid charities / universal health care (democrats).

LOL, I'm sure both will get exhausted and have no money just like social security.

::sigh:: Great now I'm depressed.

[REDVTR1000]

personal opinion: you should not be allowed to be commander in cheif of the armed forces is you have not , at least in some capacity, served in them. how can you possibly be allowed to order young men and women to do something you yourself would not do. McCain has it this time.

[-jro-]

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

personal opinion: you should not be allowed to be commander in cheif of the armed forces is you have not , at least in some capacity, served in them. how can you possibly be allowed to order young men and women to do something you yourself would not do. McCain has it this time.

by this logic, shouldn't Kerry have won last election? I do get your point- however, the President is much much more than just the commander in chief. He is president to the people of America (even us non military types) and I find the veto pen to be mightier than the sword.

[REDVTR1000]

Originally Posted by -jro-

by this logic, shouldn't Kerry have won last election? I do get your point- however, the President is much much more than just the commander in chief. He is president to the people of America (even us non military types) and I find the veto pen to be mightier than the sword.

I agree he is much more than just a commander in chief, and bush does have some military service (just as spotty as Kerry’s in my opinion) but this one facet is something that is vitally important. It is a deal breaker for me but not the sole factor behind my decision. How can Obama talk about the plight of our troops without ever having known what it is to fight? It just seems like politics from him. I think McCain truly does care. On top of this I think he is more qualified to make decisions pertaining to war because he has been there. The other big issue is the Economy and on this both of them have their heads so far up their ass it is unbelievable. I am not the biggest fan of either of them but it is easy to see that the lesser of 2 evils is McCain. It is just like a company. Sure there is so much involved in running a company and a person might have been a great CEO elsewhere but if he/she doesn't know dick about your product or a large facet of your business then they are probably not going to do well. If we were not currently in the middle of a war in 2 countries then I would be less inclined to press the issue but we need someone with strong military experience. Someone who has shown already that they are willing to do what it takes and sacrifice a big part of themselves, without hesitation, for this country. That person right now is McCain. Like I prefaced the previous post, personal opinion.

[mondos06cbr1000]

as an Army Officer I cannot speak on these matters openly...












but I bet you guys know who im rooting for

[richw]

Where is the ACLU defending your military right to frre speach

I admit Obama people are clever having him speak at the end of a free rock concert.

[Thunderbisciut]

Originally Posted by taxonomy

I think that I don't see anyone addressing real issues.

Someone has to talk about the shift in demographics. People used to retire at 60 and die at 65, now they live till 90 gobbling resources and driving the cost of health care up because they require massive services for years and years. US health care is costing us all way more than $4 gas is. Products manufactured here are more expensive for it. We pay huge money and get little for it. It needs a radical overhaul that I am just not seeing.

We need to move the world off fossil fuel. It's in the wrong places, there's not enough, it's dirty. We could be a world leader and rich if we get the patents but I don't see it happening. Ethanol is a joke. Nukes are fine if you can trust people to carefully manage the waste for the next 5000 years. Considering the middle ages and all that stuff I don't think it's a great idea.

If you think about the last real resource war, Operation Barbarosa, Hitlers drive to Baku, there were a million casualties at Stalingrad alone. That was a war about oil fought with bolt action rifles and piston driven aircraft. Imagine a real grab there today.

Lastly, if China and Russia are going to be rich they need to step up and take part of the check when it comes to keeping the world from breaking into an open firefight. The US has too long been the dork at the dinner table picking up the check. We need to back off a little. Russia has not interest in fostering Islamic Militants. China needs fuel and markets as much as we do. We can't be the only super power. It's too expensive.

Until someone starts talking like this it's all a joke. It's not an election, it's Kabuiki theater. It's retarded.

I like this guy, I will vote for him

[richw]

Russia is drilling in the North Pole

China is making decade long deals with Libiya and Cuba etc.

Democrats are blocking everything that would help

[TheIglu]

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

How can Obama talk about the plight of our troops without ever having known what it is to fight? It just seems like politics from him.

Hey, sounds a lot like our current mistake, huh?

[kbroderick]

I can't believe I'm wading into this one...

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

I agree he is much more than just a commander in chief, and bush does have some military service (just as spotty as Kerry’s in my opinion) but this one facet is something that is vitally important.

Are you fucking serious? One of them was in the country with the war and was involved in live-fire situations. How he actually performed in them is a matter of some debate that I doubt anyone's mind is going to be changed on at this point, but how the fuck do you compare that to flying jets for the Texas ANG?

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

It is a deal breaker for me but not the sole factor behind my decision. How can Obama talk about the plight of our troops without ever having known what it is to fight?

How can McCain talk about the plight of the middle class without ever having been a member of it?

Answer: they're both smart people. They can understand a situation without having personally been in that situation. They may not know exactly how it feels, and they'd both probably admit that, at least in private. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that getting mortared and/or dealing with IEDs in a war with an unclear path to completion sucks or that trying to figure out how to stretch a level paycheck to cover ever-increasing health care costs sucks (although both suck in entirely different ways).

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

It just seems like politics from him. I think McCain truly does care.

I think they both do truly care. I think you'd have to be an asshole not to, and I don't think that either of them are straight-up assholes. They're politicians, which is slightly different.

Originally Posted by REDVTR1000

The other big issue is the Economy and on this both of them have their heads so far up their ass it is unbelievable.

To fix our economy, we need to do a few things. The first is to stop hemorrhaging money into Iraq. Unfortunately, we need to do that in a way that doesn't create a bigger problem than we started with.

The second is to join the first world and adopt some form of nationalized health care. Right now, the health care system is so broken that it's impacting both private industry and individuals to a very significant extent. I don't expect McCain to tackle this.

We also need to rescind the upper-end tax cuts and get the federal budget under control. Running severely in the red hurts the value of the dollar, which impacts our economy from top to bottom and drives up the cost of things that come from overseas, like sportbikes. It also means that we don't have enough wiggle room in the federal budget to deal with stuff like the mortgage industry going into a self-induced death spiral. McCain has switched to be in favor of the Bush tax cuts, which are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Speaking of switched positions, compare McCain's 2000 platform to his 2008 platform. I have a hard time dealing with a politician who has moved so far without acknowledging and explaining the changes in his positions (changing your mind is okay, which I wish the current president would understand, but you had damn well better be prepared to explain when and why to the public). Hell, I probably would've voted for McCain in 2000 if he had won the nomination, and I sure as hell won't this time around. If you want to talk about doing something strictly for political gain, McCain-2008 vs McCain-2000 seems like a clear case of that to me. I think McCain realized that, realistically, he had to move his positions further into the dark realm of the Republican Party in order to keep the support of the party and get the nomination.

As far as Obama goes, he seems capable of thinking critically and then expressing that critical thought in a manner that's comprehensible to voters. Bush seems to be missing the first half of that equation, and Kerry was missing the second half. I'm pretty convinced that, as long as he can think critically and does so when selecting the people who will surround him, he can learn anything that he needs to for running the country.

To the guy who suggested the LP earlier, I'd point out that the LP is based on the theory that the greatest threat to our personal liberty is from the people in government holding too much power and exerting it for its own sake. I don't think that's the greatest threat in today's world; I think that powerful corporate interests using exceptional economic leverage to exert power, both through the government and through its failure to act against their use of power, is a much greater threat to our liberty. Therefore, it's critical that we check the power of the corporations (and, by extension, the power of those who control the corporations).

[ChrisNoF4i]

[Erebus]

I agreed with everything else you said so I am only addressing what I didn't agree with.

Originally Posted by kbroderick

To fix our economy, we need to do a few things. The first is to stop hemorrhaging money into Iraq. Unfortunately, we need to do that in a way that doesn't create a bigger problem than we started with.

Energy is what is cutting our economic throats today, not the war. the war also will end at some point. Energy consumption will not. Energy is the long term problem not the war. The war is $144B per year according to the New York Times.

We are sending $700B per year to the oil producing nations. Some if which is funding the very people we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. The amount of capitol that is leaving this country in the form of foreign oil purchases is the number one money pit we are in today. And everyday we dig it deeper. We have to reach a point where we are no longer buying foreign oil at all. That HAS to happen in several ways. There is no single solution or silver bullet.

A - Start producing more of our own oil so that we are selling more oil. This will help move toward net zero import. We need to drill here now to start offsetting/decreasing what we are importing. We can stop drilling when we no longer need it, if that ever happens.

B - Start developing energy sources that can replace oil in areas where it makes sense. IE get rid of the oil power plants and replace them with clean coal, nuclear, solar, wind, etc. Also tax incentives for people to install solar panels, windmills, etc on their homes where it makes sense.

They call Chicago the windy city, why isn't there a windmill on every roof? If every roof in the big cities had a windmill and solar panels how much less electricity would have to be generated with oil, coal, etc?

C - The president(whoever he is) needs to use the bully pulpit to start talking to people about moving to other forms of energy for things like transportation, home heating, etc. I don't want legislation to force people to do something they don't want to do. That's not freedom and this is a free country. I don't have a problem with tax incentives and such to give people reasons to make the move. I just don't want the government telling people, "We have decided you have to...".

D - Development of technologies that consume less energy such as LED based lighting, those florescent bulbs are a good step in the right direction but they have drawbacks. But as technology is it will continue to improve.

I'm sure there are more that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by kbroderick

Speaking of switched positions, compare McCain's 2000 platform to his 2008 platform. I have a hard time dealing with a politician who has moved so far without acknowledging and explaining the changes in his positions (changing your mind is okay, which I wish the current president would understand, but you had damn well better be prepared to explain when and why to the public). Hell, I probably would've voted for McCain in 2000 if he had won the nomination, and I sure as hell won't this time around. If you want to talk about doing something strictly for political gain, McCain-2008 vs McCain-2000 seems like a clear case of that to me. I think McCain realized that, realistically, he had to move his positions further into the dark realm of the Republican Party in order to keep the support of the party and get the nomination.

they are both pandering to both sides as much as they can. They are politicians, that's what they do.

Originally Posted by kbroderick

As far as Obama goes, he seems capable of thinking critically and then expressing that critical thought in a manner that's comprehensible to voters. Bush seems to be missing the first half of that equation, and Kerry was missing the second half. I'm pretty convinced that, as long as he can think critically and does so when selecting the people who will surround him, he can learn anything that he needs to for running the country.

That's great but he isn't running against Bush or Kerry. They both(Obama & McCain) did very well last night in that church forum/thingy. They both displayed that they are very different people and have different styles but both were every personable and explained their positions where explanations were necessary. I actually liked that forum MUCH better than any debate I have seen in years.

Originally Posted by kbroderick

To the guy who suggested the LP earlier, I'd point out that the LP is based on the theory that the greatest threat to our personal liberty is from the people in government holding too much power and exerting it for its own sake. I don't think that's the greatest threat in today's world; I think that powerful corporate interests using exceptional economic leverage to exert power, both through the government and through its failure to act against their use of power, is a much greater threat to our liberty. Therefore, it's critical that we check the power of the corporations (and, by extension, the power of those who control the corporations).

Governments exists to serve themselves. The people have to make sure that they retain as much power themselves as government will always abuse power. As soon as you let them get an inch they are going to take the mile.

Corporations are not the root of all evil like many try to make them out to be. That being said I do think they are exerting too much political influence as do special interest groups.

One concept many people have lost today is the Calvin Coolidge quote "The business of America is business". Government doesn't create jobs or capitol. Business does. Business creates a product or service that induces the transfer of capitol. When a business creates a product of service that peopel want and pay for that business employs more people to produce/provide that product or service and those employees in turn buy products and services creating more jobs. It's a self perpetuating cycle. Government's job in all this is to make sure that competition is maintained and that the cycle doesn't become self destructive such as we saw with the interest only mortgages and predatory lending.

Government cannot create jobs. They can only create conditions that are good for job production or bad for it. Higher taxes are always bad for it. When the company has to give more of it's capitol to the government then that is that much less capitol it has to developing the next desirable product or service or to hire more people to produce/provide that product or service. So government has to find the point where businesses keeps growing and producing more and hiring as much as possible while bringing in as much tax revenue as possible. It's not a simple equation.

[richw]

This is the end

Good luck with your Chinese masters

[scsanteRRe]

Ron Paul, the only politician I've ever heard who talked straight

+1 . . . no bs from this guy, in the first clip, (whole thing is good) but great points on where our country is headed at 2:40 mark.

Clips from AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM
Clips from AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM

im also sick of hearing 'voting for lesser of two evils' so either way, your voting for evil?.. not good sense, ill write in Ron Paul, no way id vote for either of these two nut jobs.

[-jro-]

Originally Posted by scsanteRRe

im also sick of hearing 'voting for lesser of two evils' so either way, your voting for evil?.. not good sense

Wasn't it Michael Moore who said that first....in support of Ralph Nader? Heh just saying.

[bigred875]

I prefer "we have a choice between dog shit and horse shit...."