The cost of doing business?

[Jerrinator]

Warning, long rant;

The longer I think about this, the more it pisses me off..and I am wondering if others have experienced this;

I called around to the local dealerships in the Burlington area to price tires and no surprise that I found the prices everywhere from a 'bit' higher to prices a LOT higher than I could purchase online. Also, the online price had a discount of FREE shipping if your order was more than $200. I bought my tire online for a good $50 less than the least quote at one of the local dealerships.

Now comes the 'fun' part (I say with gritted teeth)
I call around for pricing on swapping over and balancing a tire off the bike...prices vary only by about $5 or so...so I go to the dealership that I have purchased 3 NEW bikes from, many many parts, helmets, oil etc...and they say on the phone $15 for a tire change...but when I get to the shop, the price is $35 because I am bringing in my own tire, not purchasing one from them. The turn around time on my tire is only about 10 minutes which is GREAT! BUT the price....$20 EXTRA dollars! WTF! They are charging me for something I DID NOT buy. Now I find that most ALL dealerships are doing this practice....

I take my car every year and swap out winter tires for summer, and then again in the fall swapping summer for winter and they only charge me anywhere from $12-$15 a tire and they don't give a DAMN about where I bought the tire, or what brand it is,...only that it is a sound tire.

My dealership said that this 'extra' charge is because they don't make enough on the tires to begin with which is bullshit! It's not like I am asking them to put the tire on for free! I am only asking that they do it fair...

If you look at it this way;
$85/hr for shop rate....that's $1.42 per minute....
10 (-/+) minutes to change tire and balance
10 minutes time for $14.20 or round it up to $15.00
so they got paid the shop rate.

now...$35 for tire change;
10 minutes of labor = $35
works out to be $3.50/min
or
$210.00 per hour!

I think that's the last time I take my business to this particular dealership!
I know that there are employees of local dealerships on this forum and you need to hear this...I have not mentioned the business name on purpose, you know who you are, you know who *I* am....maybe if I decide to do business again at your establishment, things will be different.

Because the practice of charging a customer for something they did not purchase (charging me extra for a tire that I didn't purchase from you) is bullshit!
With the economy the way it is, gas prices on the rise, taxes going up every year....I am looking for ways to cut all costs associated with the things I do for enjoyment, and if it means paying $50 less by buying my tires online, then that is what I need to do...but shops charging more to penalize the customer for bringing in their own tire...well that's just bullshit! Bad business!
Make a statement and be one of the shops that value customers and show them with your pricing...

ok, enough of my rant, I am done!

[JohnnyV]

If they are working in the tire disposal into that price of $35 per wheel, then in all honesty it is not that horrible. We also have numerous members on the forum here that do tire changes for a better rate than just about any shop you will find.

[TheIglu]

Mount them yourself.

Set of irons runs about $15. That's what I do.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Jerrinator

now...$35 for tire change;
10 minutes of labor = $35
works out to be $3.50/min
or
$210.00 per hour!

this is all wrong. i come from a small business background and this is something that comes up all the time. the cost of the change is 35 dollars. if you give them your business in the form of buying tires then they will discount the price and give it to you for 20 dollars less. it is a reward for doing business with them. if everyone bought their tires online and brought them in they would not make any money. there is overhead involved. they need to pay the tech, recoup machinery costs, and offset the time lost changing your tires vice doing maintenence that makes them money. i hear all the time "it is so much cheaper online" followed by " i can never find anyone locally who does work that is cost effective". that is because you decided to buy all your products online and take money away from the businesses that support your community. it is 35 dollars, quit your bitching that is still a good deal. you want the discount? shop local and support your small businesses

[hessogood]

There are at least 10 people on this site spread around new england that have tire machines and mount tires.

[Jerrinator]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

this is all wrong. i come from a small business background and this is something that comes up all the time. the cost of the change is 35 dollars. if you give them your business in the form of buying tires then they will discount the price and give it to you for 20 dollars less. it is a reward for doing business with them. if everyone bought their tires online and brought them in they would not make any money. there is overhead involved. they need to pay the tech, recoup machinery costs, and offset the time lost changing your tires vice doing maintenence that makes them money. i hear all the time "it is so much cheaper online" followed by " i can never find anyone locally who does work that is cost effective". that is because you decided to buy all your products online and take money away from the businesses that support your community. it is 35 dollars, quit your bitching that is still a good deal. you want the discount? shop local and support your small businesses

Hey Woodsy, if you read the whole thing, you will see that I HAVE done MUCH business with them, purchased three NEW bikes, also a USED bike some years ago, I have purchased helmets, oil, parts AND TIRES in the past...just makes me wonder if I want to DO business with them in the future...thats all...

[Kurlon]

That's pretty much the norm for bike shops. They really don't make much money on tires. They don't sell anywhere near the volume of the online places, nor do they have the storage space to buy old lots in bulk for even cheaper pricing. (If you buy online, check the DOT Date Code, depending on what and where you buy, they may be 2 or more years old... Michelin Pilot Powers come to mind.) They typically pay pretty close to what the online places charge the public to get tires in. So if they try to match online pricing... there goes any profit. Warm fuzzy feelings aside, they have to make SOMETHING on the transaction.

The shops around here charge listed retail for the tire, and include mounting and balancing on and off the bike for that price. If you bring your own tires, you pay labor based on weather or not you take the wheels off yourself or not.

Seems fair to me?

[Jerrinator]

Originally Posted by hessogood

There are at least 10 people on this site spread around new england that have tire machines and mount tires.

Thanks for the info.. I mean, I am sure that I can unmount and remount a new tire (I've never done if before, but sure I can learn) but I do not have a balancer, so I would still have to go to a dealership to do that...

I appreciate the info though, maybe I will do a little searching around on the threads to see who around here mounts them (not dealerships) and get in touch that way...

I actually had a local dealership tell me that since my bike is a Yamaha, and they only sold Triumphs, Ducatis and BMW's that they wouldn't touch my tire...they wouldn't change it at ALL! Go figure...

[The Crashing Tomato]

Ran into the same problem a year back now I take my needs to the track where it's totally service oriented. I thinks that most track vendors have a policy to do any tire (purchased from them free or not purchased from them for 15$ IIRC and it's not just NHMS been to other traks with different vendors and same policy)

[TheIglu]

A balancer?

Got a long rod and two jackstands?

I got your balancer right here.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Jerrinator

Hey Woodsy, if you read the whole thing, you will see that I HAVE done MUCH business with them, purchased three NEW bikes, also a USED bike some years ago, I have purchased helmets, oil, parts AND TIRES in the past...just makes me wonder if I want to DO business with them in the future...thats all...

great! but now you want them to install a product you purchased from somebody else? ok, but do not expect to get a great deal. I read your whole post but at the end of the day it comes down to " i decided to give my money to somebody else who cannot provide the services you offer but i would still like the same treatment you give to somebody who does buy from you" that is BS. why don't you try to have the internet install them? were the tires 80 dollars more at the shop? if so, you are still getting a deal, if not then you would have saved money going through them.

[Pittenger5]

As far as how much things cost at the store vs online, my dad tried to buy a ladder a while back, he called our supplier got the price, managed to find one online delivered to our door for 50 dollars less than our supplier would have charged us. Which is of course not what we could charge a customer coming in the door. Little real world example of why prices are higher at the store.
And a store is in the business of making money. To charge less for mounting and balancing is probably incentive for people to spend more money on something at their shop instead of online. Obviously if they're losing that money to somewhere online, they're going to charge more to try and give people incentive to buy in the store so they can make money. Instead you want them to do the dirty work, but make slim to no money on the deal. Almost like a "cash discount" at gas stations.

[Kham]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

there is overhead involved. they need to pay the tech, recoup machinery costs, and offset the time lost changing your tires vice doing maintenence that makes them money.

their health care, food on table, the whole 9 yards.

so how come the online business still makes money?

[Kham]

good rant jerrinator.

[Pittenger5]

Originally Posted by Kham

their health care, food on table, the whole 9 yards.

so how come the online business still makes money?

You mean how they dont need to pay rent on the store, electricity, heat, and since they dont mount the tires, they dont need the techs, machinery, health insurance etc etc.
A lot of theres are probably 3 people in a simple warehouse that can get huge bulk discounts and save there.


It always makes me laugh how EASY it is to tell who's worked extensively in retail, and who hasnt.

[Kurlon]

Originally Posted by Kham

their health care, food on table, the whole 9 yards.

so how come the online business still makes money?

Buy in BIG bulk - cheaper up front cost
Buy older stock - cheaper up front cost
Pay lower wages - Packing monkey's don't need to know much compared to a qualified mechanic
Pay lower benefits - Hey, it's cheap labor, did you expect benefits at that wage point?
Lower liability - Hey, they didn't put the tire on?

[KillBill]

It's called overhead....as Woodsy stated

Same reason why my prices are higher than some douche bag
selling supplements out of his basement.

I do feel for you considering you were a loyal customer to this
shop though. They could have treated you a little better....maybe
have met you in the middle?

I bought two bikes from Best Cycle (worse dealership ever) and needed
a couple fairing allen nuts.....they wanted $3 bucks each! So.....I left
and have not returned since. Vote with your dollars

[FlynGSXR1k]

$35? Thats all?????
Consider yourself lucky.... I know of three dealerships in Southern NH that charge anywhere from $50-$83 (I got screwed with an $83 one because my tire split and I had no choice!) to mount and balance tires not purchased from them. I did similar math and it worked out to be $400+/hour. I actually wrote an article in my outrage of that. I gladly paid Stoneman the going NESR site rate of $35 plus disposal fee and bought my tires online. (I even got to drink a couple of his beers!! )

I have to agree with Woodsy a bit more on this one.. especially if they are charging less than $50 to cover overhead.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Kham

their health care, food on table, the whole 9 yards.

so how come the online business still makes money?

little to no overhead. they do not offer the services that the local shops do, seek out locations where real estate is less, and employ less people. if you are cool with that than buy online. all i am saying is do not expect the same treatment.

[dhuze]

Buy parts for your car then bring them to a garage or dealer and see if they charge you the same for installing them.

[Degsy]

$35 a tire is very reasonable considering the shop's overheads. I charge $20 a rim PLUS $7 tire disposal and that is really a low rate. I SHOULD be charging $35 a rim plus the disposal fee. There are plenty of dealerships that charge up to $75 a rim for tire changing. At the track we charge $15 a rim because we are constantly manning the machine and the quantity we do means we can reduce overhead.

Little 5 minute jobs take a member of staff off a job he is doing and actually probably cause 30 minutes of downtime. I highly doubt they did the change and balance in 10 minutes.

The other thing is liablilty. They are taking your rim and tire and guaranteeing that they don't damage them. It can sometimes happen that a tire gets damaged in the machine. Very occasional, but it does happen. There's a $160 tire the dealer has to pay for.

I can tell you guys that there are companies out there on the internet that are charging as little as $7 to $10 profit per tire and selling them by the hundreds.

Personally, I pay a little extra than online prices when I buy my parts from Bettencourt's but I get customer service and a physical place to return stuff I don't need. Also, I want them to stay in business so I still have a local dealer and the guys and girls that work there get to keep their jobs.

We need to take a more community oriented stance when it comes to purchasing decisions. We are all part of the motorcycle community and we should help each other out as much as we can so we don't turn into an internet only motorcycle world.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by dhuze

Buy parts for your car then bring them to a garage or dealer and see if they charge you the same for installing them.

you are taking money out of there pocket and then chastising them for it.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Degsy

We need to take a more community oriented stance when it comes to purchasing decisions. We are all part of the motorcycle community and we should help each other out as much as we can so we don't turn into an internet only motorcycle world.

well said degsy

[Kham]

yea well there's always people with more money than god to keep local bussiness going. sooner or later they die out and the mighty GM falls. stay compatitive. i dont think it's a rocket science.

[Pittenger5]

Originally Posted by KillBill

I do feel for you considering you were a loyal customer to this
shop though.

Its funny what people consider themselves to be a loyal customer too though. Ive bought a few things here, I think you should change company policy to please me in this case where I did not buy from you.
We always get people that ask, well I've bought 4 gallons of paint from you, do I get some sort of discount? They consider themselves a high margin buyer, but thats nothing compared to even our smaller corporate accounts.
Like I say in my ladder story, you might think you're getting "ripped off" at the store, but sometimes it just costs them more money.
And I do understand that sometimes the cost differential is too extreme that you cant justify buying in the store vs online, hell, everyone does it. But just dont expect the store to bend over backwards to help you out when it doesnt work, or you need help. That service comes with a price.