[ChR1s]

http://www.mass.gov/dcr/recreate/ohv...rch%207-08.pdf

[Pittenger5]

That was a lot of words, and i didnt read most of it. What I DO know is the local police department does NOT look kindly on riding a KLX110 at the park down the street from my house.

[Pigman]

Waste of time and money....let them be and let them ride

[TheIglu]

If you "let them be", they will continue to ride illegally and destroy property.

We need to OPEN more land for managed usage.

I won't bother to reg my bike in MA until there is someplace to ride within an hour and a half of me that is legal. I'll reg and ride in NH until then.

[Pigman]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

If you "let them be", they will continue to ride illegally and destroy property.

We need to OPEN more land for managed usage.

I won't bother to reg my bike in MA until there is someplace to ride within an hour and a half of me that is legal. I'll reg and ride in NH until then.

True, i ride in NH just cause they don't bust balls...and look at Cali and how they have made tons of land open to riding and no probs at all

[TheIglu]

I don't mind following the rules. I just won't ride in MA until it's closer than NH. 3/4 of the state has a 2+ hour drive to ride in MA legally. That is the real problem here. People would ride legally if it was even remotely convenient to do so.

[R1slowflyer]

My town gave up on the program, some officers were taking it too seriously and it became a nightmare.

since when is a 14 year old worth arresting because he is not causing trouble. for example the only thing to do in this here town to keep from drugs and other mischievous activities, is to go out and rip up the trails, trails that have been around and widely used since my parents grew up in this town. now they go out with dirtbikes and charge you for trespassing, seize or confiscate your quad or dirtbike and arrest you. aren't there better things to spend their time and law enforcement on.

[Pittenger5]

Thats one of the biggest problems I see, they spend millions if not BILLIONS on trying to keep kids busy and give them something to do other than get in trouble, then they wont do anything that might actually keep them out of trouble.

[TheIglu]

So what did they do with skateboarding?

Did they just stop enforcing rules against kids ruining stairs, railings and sidewalks?

No, they setup places for them to ride.

That is the only solution.

I sure would get pissed if some kid came and ripped my yard up without my permission.

[Pittenger5]

In my town theres been talk of a skatepark for YEARS, its still not built. Its locations been approved, the moneys been raised, the lawyers are still arguing over insurance for the city in case someones been hurt.
Meanwhile skaters are kicked out of anywhere to skate around town.

[R1slowflyer]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

So what did they do with skateboarding?

Did they just stop enforcing rules against kids ruining stairs, railings and sidewalks?

No, they setup places for them to ride.

That is the only solution.

I sure would get pissed if some kid came and ripped my yard up without my permission.

You know you seem to be devils advocate in most arguments, but you have a point, problem is its not skateboarding, its not in the public eye, like skateboarding. most of the trails are way out in the woods, and most of us are respectful i said most.

there are bad eggs yes, for example my town set up a fundraiser that raised 100k for a skate park and within a week of it being open they trashed it. so they closed the skate park as opposed to monitoring it and finding the bad eggs they shut it down and now its illegal to skate there does that make sense.

thats like saying this kid got and F so everyone gets and F.

[TheIglu]

Leaving them alone won't work.

Neither will shutting down all areas.

Gotta figure out a solution, that's all.

And yes, unfortunately you DO have to keep the bad eggs in mind. That's why we as a society are forced to have things like prisons that are paid for by the population.

With that being said, punishing the law abiding citizens for the crimes of non-abiding will never get us anywhere. Same thing with guns and drugs. People who use (insert ATV's, boats, guns, knives, SUV's, etc etc etc) responsibly should never have their rights taken away due to someone who isn't responsible.

[Pittenger5]

You better watch what you say in a public forum! Thats the type of revolutionary talk that gets you put on certain government lists! Obviously the government knows exactly whats best for us!

[ChR1s]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

So what did they do with skateboarding?

Did they just stop enforcing rules against kids ruining stairs, railings and sidewalks?

No, they setup places for them to ride.

That is the only solution.

I sure would get pissed if some kid came and ripped my yard up without my permission.

Excellent example for comparison. As much as the DCR is using environmental concerns to shape policy, complaints of illegal riding (tresspass, damage) is one of the more prevalent concerns voiced by citizens.

One thing I find curious is the DCR's process of applying their filter criteria to the remaining areas where OHV use is still permitted. They've only applied the "coarse" filter so far, which caused the closure of Georgetown-Rowley State Forest to OHV use. They were very hot to apply their filtering at first, yet they're now way behind in applying their final, "fine" filter to the remaining areas. THAT is going to have some impact.

[ChR1s]

BTW, the state recently altered language in the CMRs to further define Off Highway Vehicles (OHV). There's now specific language that states any wheeled vehicle, like a plated dual-sport, is considered an OHV as soon as it leaves a public way. That means as soon as your DRZ/KLR leaves the road, you're then subject to all regulations as they pertain to dirtbikes and ATVs. Oh, The Man is working overtime to spoil our fun. I've yet to see one foot of newly created trail in the years since they re-opened a few state forests back up to OHV use.

[gregp]

So there are 29,000 OHV users and 155 of DCR trails???? Some quick math reveals that if even half of the users ride on any given weekend, there are over 93 vehicles per trail mile. Gee, and we have a problem?
C'mon, DCR and legislators, don't be stupid, we *need* more open trails! This problem will *not* go away, and steeper fines is *not* the answer!

[rmbbikes]

Originally Posted by TheIglu

If you "let them be", they will continue to ride illegally and destroy property.

We need to OPEN more land for managed usage.

I won't bother to reg my bike in MA until there is someplace to ride within an hour and a half of me that is legal. I'll reg and ride in NH until then.

Come on up brother man. I got the secret KB trails!! All legal of course. I belong to the club, pay my dues, and will share with certain legally registered guests. There is even a nice pool and a fridge full of beer at the end of the rides. Then scorpion bowls and chinese food on the way home.

KB

[dhuze]

First page quote. Yeah, what a bunch of dicks wasting money on safety and law enforcement.

"Key recommendations include:
• Expand law enforcement capacity to provide consistent and effective enforcement
of OHV laws and regulations.
• Strengthen fines and penalties for OHV offenses including trespass.
• Require safety and responsibility training for all OHV operators eighteen (18)
years of age and younger.
• Simplify the registration process and require registration for all OHV’s with
revenues directed to increasing enforcement capabilities and the development,
maintenance and restoration of OHV trails.
• Reduce allowable OHV noise levels to the national standard 96dbA at 20 inches.
• Reinforce efforts to protect children by strengthening requirements for adult
supervision of young operators, restricting the sales of adult sized ATV’s and
integrating Consumer Product Safety Commission rules for OHV use into state
regulations.
• Strengthen communication among enthusiasts, land managers, enforcement
agencies and other stakeholders by establishing an OHV Advisory Group similar
to those in other states."

[Paul_E_D]

I think it says "enforcement" more than any other word in there. The most distressing to me is the enforcement on private property. Fook that!

But at least it recognizes that given the number of OHVs there will be no solution without opening more terrain. It only mentions that like once though... the rest is fines and enforcement...

[R1slowflyer]

Strengthen fines and penalties for OHV offenses including trespass.

this right here is retarded. again the people out riding on the trails are NOT the ones out causing trouble.

I know that there is far worse things teenagers and adults could be doing with their time including destroying "public" property. but whenyou consider the facts, at least in my area, the puclic property being used, was just over the past 5 years introduced as public property and has been established trails for years before i was born. there is at least 4 quarries in my area with strict off limits enforcement which is understandable, but i digress.

I dont know about you, but the problem here, was complete lack of the law even from the LEO's. like i said before the officer in charge of the program took it too far, because he thought he was exempt from following the laws he was trying to enforce. including the following.

illegal seachr and seizure of my friend in my yard. it didn hold up in court.
trespassing to enforcce a trespassing arrest didn't hold up in court
excessive force on minors didn't hold up in court
excessive force, drawing his weapon on a senior citizen riding a quad.

the enforcement of private property trespass, can be dealt with primarily by the land owner in conjuntion with the local poice. another problem here is that neighbors of the adjacent land would call in said trespass and the cops had no authority to be on the premises and again that didn't hold up in court.

eventually the discontinued the program. the only way to enforce these new laws is to open up the trails and then go from there.

what they are trying to do know is enforce the laws and then open up the trails.

i dont know if this even made sense, but i could get into specifics about what has happened in the past with this program and what happened to have it put to an end, it was basically one officer that took the law to far because he had no juristiction on most of the property he was trying to control!

[trickphoto]

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

The most distressing to me is the enforcement on private property. Fook that!

Yeah, me too... Ask Jeremy McGrath if that's something we should be concerned about.

[Paul_E_D]

R1s I understand your post, and that's one reason I'm not too upset. Enforcement will kind of backfire on them . It's not sustainable, especially in a recession. Also, many property owners do not cooperate with the police, and so fines and such don't hold up. Still, it will be a pita if they get gung ho about it for a while...

[R1slowflyer]

exactly my point. they were gung ho about it for about 3 years, 2 of which were nothing but problems, and they gave us no alternative, no legal trails within 20 miles or so, also they shut down the windham depot which is about 10 minutes from my house and it gave us no choice. it got bad when almost everyone i knew went to court to either fight a ticket or a case, and like you said the landowners are the ones who put a stop to some of the disputes, due to they never called to file a trespass complaint so the trespass was on both parts and all charges were dropped.

the only real solution is to open up a state funded trail program that can facilitate many many many riders and establish tht as the stapl for a period of time say years, and then begin the enforcement of illegal trail riding. until then the enforcement is illegal and the cases unwarranted.

it just doesnt make sense to take an activity that many kids can participate in by saving there hard earned money and learning the value of the dollar, and keeping them from exploring activities with drugs and exccessiveness and they can just rip it all away and say, hey this is just as illegal as drugs and underage drinking, but you can hide drugs and underage drinking.

[gregp]

One of the major problems that I see with this regulation is that they do not prioritize the order of events. It is sensless to step up enforcement and punishment without offering a place to ride *first*.
Give riders places to go. Help them find their way there. *Then* step up enforcement and punishment of illegal riding. It makes absolutely no sense to initiate these objectives at the same time. To do so will only ensure every rider is infuriated, and that the youth of today will despise authority tomorrow - a bad outcome for all.

[Rye]

Originally Posted by Pigman

True, i ride in NH just cause they don't bust balls...and look at Cali and how they have made tons of land open to riding and no probs at all

Mmmmmm. If you were to run that statement by riders in California, you might get a slightly different interpretation of "no probs". Take it from me, I use to ride Ocotillo Wells and surrounding areas in SD county. A Mass liberal has nothing on the nazis in Cali.