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'14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

  1. #51
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    stupid question, what If you drove it in a straight line for a those miles. (like driving down the boston post road) (if you had to in the summer and didn't have access to somewhere offroad)
    A) You are unlikely able to hold the vehicle straight enough to avoid binding
    B) Slight variances in tire wear, circumference, grip, the alignment of the earth, moon, and sun, and dumb luck will likely cause the driveline to bind anyway

    Iglu has it : Do not drive a part-time 4WD in 4WD mode in high traction situations. The larger the footprint tire you are running (read: more grip) you have, the more of an issue this is.

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  2. #52
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Straightish is generally fine. You want to avoid tight turns, but it's reasonable to do this on pavement as long as there aren't a bunch of turns just to exercise the system.

    I'd also add that I think 10 miles is a little much. You want to make sure that the system gets exercised / lubed more than anything. Same is true for putting it in Low every once in a while just to exercise the parts.

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    Last edited by jasnmar; 12-11-17 at 11:17 AM.

  3. #53
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    meh, the down the first fairway, across 5, back up 9 and grab a cold one at the club house. just have to watch crossing by the water hazard on 4...

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  4. #54
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    This thread is proof: Front wheel drive with snows...

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  5. #55
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Generally there is a slight reduction in gear ratio for the front axle on 4WD systems. That reduction is what keeps the entire driveline loaded when 4WD is being used. So yes, straight line on dry pavement is okay but not desirable due to tire wear and driveline wear.

    Clunking is acceptable unless you are purposly spinning tires and trying to engage/ disenage 4WD.

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  6. #56
    Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    This would probably be a good place to put this:

    If, as a result of binding, you find yourself unable to disengage your 4WD, try driving in reverse and turning various ways. This helps unbind the drivetrain.

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  7. #57
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Look up vehicle reliability

    last year 7 out of the 10 worst vehicles were Jeeps

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  8. #58
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    My wife put her Tahoe in 4WD high and it bound up also: very noticeable when trying to make a small radius turn. Went away after more driving. This model also has a 4WD automatic mode.

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  9. #59
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    My wife put her Tahoe in 4WD high and it bound up also: very noticeable when trying to make a small radius turn. Went away after more driving. This model also has a 4WD automatic mode.
    It probably operates similarly to my wife's Nissan Armada

    2WD = normal rear wheel drive
    AUTO = variable torque to the front wheels based on rear wheel slip, throttle position, and braking with ABS active. You can turn on asphalt without the driveline binding.
    4H = high range 4WD with a locked transfer case. Will bind in high traction environments.
    4LO = low range 4WD with a locked transfer case. Will bind in high traction environments.

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  10. #60
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    This is a pretty reasonable explanation of drive trains / steering.

    YouTube

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  11. #61
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Look up vehicle reliability

    last year 7 out of the 10 worst vehicles were Jeeps
    yep, I think they should bring the 4.0 back as well

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  12. #62
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    It probably operates similarly to my wife's Nissan Armada

    2WD = normal rear wheel drive
    AUTO = variable torque to the front wheels based on rear wheel slip, throttle position, and braking with ABS active. You can turn on asphalt without the driveline binding.
    4H = high range 4WD with a locked transfer case. Will bind in high traction environments.
    4LO = low range 4WD with a locked transfer case. Will bind in high traction environments.
    Pretty much. Straight from the owners' manual on my 2015 Silverado 4WD:
    AUTO (Automatic Four-Wheel Drive): Use when road surface traction conditions are variable. When driving in AUTO, the front axle is engaged, and the vehicle's power is sent to the front and rear wheels automatically based on driving conditions. This setting provides slightly lower fuel economy than 2 m.
    My understanding is that it locks the front hubs and uses an electronically controlled clutch system in the transfer case to produce the variable torque. Basically a flip of the FWD bias "AWD" cute-utes. The front half-shafts and diff are spinning, hence the reduced fuel economy. Some of the stuff on the 'net says there is like a 5% bias to the front in the dry. I've read reports that one can burn out the clutch in the t-case running at high speeds and/or loads in 4WD AUTO for prolonged periods of time.

    I occasionally forget the truck is in 4AUTO. You can feel it in the steering, barely. But its nothing like the bind in 4Hi. Some say you can hear the difference in drive-line noises. I can't.

    I actually don't know how the hubs on this truck work. On my last 4WD (2003 Ford Ranger) they'd switched to the same system as the explorer where the front hubs could not be disconnected. The front half shafts were always engaged. Only the t-case enabled/disabled power to the front. Dealer told me this was because they had problems with the half shafts and diff seizing due to non-use. Probably related to the Toyota advice re: using the system periodically.

    In practice the system works really well. Although there is definitely still a RWD bias. Great power slides!
    This, plus the locking rear diff make my Silverado pretty darn good in the snow. Although mine could use a fresh set of sneakers this season.

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  13. #63
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    I can only comment on the Auto 4wd of my older Avalanche for a GM, but it seems to work differently than the wife's Armada. When the Avalanche was in auto 4wd, you could hear something engaged and whirring even when the fronts weren't employed. The Armada, you switch it to auto and it really make no difference in anything. Maybe the newer vehicle is just smoother than the old truck I had? I don't know but we run the Armada in Auto a lot in the winter (we were told by the sales guy to run it in auto all the time, I don't think that is great advice) but I would always be switching the Avy out of auto because of the drag and noise it seemed to make.

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  14. #64
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    If the Armada has clutches in it like the GM system I would think running in 4AUTO all the time would be a really bad idea. Potential for premature wear for no real upside. Couple reports of the GM system wearing if overused out there on the interwebs.
    Stuff I've read says the GM system has evolved over the year. Mostly with programming; the clutch engages more smoothly. I wonder if the 5% FWD bias thing is newer; software programmed to keep the clutch partly engaged for faster, smoother reaction to slippage.

    My last 4WD truck (the Ranger) lacked 4AUTO was not great when locked in 4Hi. I think the ABS system was not well programmed and stopping got really shitty in 4Hi. I become conditioned to leave stops in 4Hi and then immediately shift into 2Hi once rolling. Truck felt far more in control in 2Hi at speeds > 30 ish.

    The Silverado is different. Brakes are far better. 4Auto is pretty great. I should use it more whenever there is snow and ice.

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  15. #65
    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    how about just leaving it in 2wd and using auto when its shitty out. or using full 4wd when its really shitty out.

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  16. #66
    Senior Member Gixxer's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    how about just leaving it in 2wd and using auto when its shitty out. or using full 4wd when its really shitty out.
    I don't think the Tacoma has 4 auto

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  17. #67
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    When I had 4 wheel I drove in 2 wheel and used 4 wheel to get me out

    Solid 4 wheel with big tires and asphalt and actual mechanical damage can/will occur

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  18. #68
    Senior Member Gixxer's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    So a couple thoughts:

    On the Tacoma, I am 6'4" and every vehicle I have ever driven, I reach in, push the seat all the way back, and drive. The Tacoma? I have to move the seat up. So, tons of legroom up front, and the roof bows up so there's plenty of headroom.
    ...
    However, there is no headroom in the back!



    Now, Wrangler? Redesign for 2018, a bunch of small changes, along with 3 engine options. Most useful, a little more rear legroom, a simplified soft top, etc.

    Yet, for a 2 door wrangler, $28,xxx gets you a manual tranny, and.... NO a/c! The base price jumped by about 3k, and you don't even get air. You have to pay 2 grand For an automatic, which is expensive by most bump ups for autos, and it's a Chrysler 8 speed that will probably fail before 30k.

    So, just to get an auto and air, you're at 32k!

    Fuck Fiat-Jeep.

    I wish they would bring back the tj, call it a "retro", or bring back an old name which seems to be the trend, and call it the new CJ, but bring back the 2006 TJ, with the 4.0 inline, 6 speed manual tranny, air conditioning, the option of electric lime green with a tan soft top, for an even 20k and call it a day.

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  19. #69
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Pretty much. Straight from the owners' manual on my 2015 Silverado 4WD:


    My understanding is that it locks the front hubs and uses an electronically controlled clutch system in the transfer case to produce the variable torque. Basically a flip of the FWD bias "AWD" cute-utes. The front half-shafts and diff are spinning, hence the reduced fuel economy. Some of the stuff on the 'net says there is like a 5% bias to the front in the dry. I've read reports that one can burn out the clutch in the t-case running at high speeds and/or loads in 4WD AUTO for prolonged periods of time.

    I occasionally forget the truck is in 4AUTO. You can feel it in the steering, barely. But its nothing like the bind in 4Hi. Some say you can hear the difference in drive-line noises. I can't.
    Just drove the Outback and Tahoe in 4WD auto back to back. When I first engaged 4Auto, there was some noticeable front wheelspin, then it seemed to diminish (driving on snowy surfaces. Seems like it “clutches out” unless there’s rear wheelspin. Switched to 4Hi.

    By contrast the VTD system in the Outback is 45/55 unless one end loses traction. Felt much more connected and with IRS handles rough roads much better.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 01-01-18 at 11:41 AM.
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  20. #70
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Look up least reliable vehicles last year

    7 of 10 were jeeps

    At your size perhaps you should look full size pickups

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  21. #71
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Just drove the Outback and Tahoe in 4WD auto back to back. When I first engaged 4Auto, there was some noticeable front wheelspin, then it seemed to diminish (driving on snowy surfaces. Seems like it “clutches out” unless there’s rear wheelspin. Switched to 4Hi.

    By contrast the VTD system in the Outback is 45/55 unless one end loses traction. Felt much more connected and with IRS handles rough roads much better.
    Yup. Sounds just about right.

    FWIW the truck will get VERY tail happy if you are frisky with the throttle in 4Auto. Quite frankly it'll rotate nicely given the right conditions in 4Hi too.

    If you aren't good with that I suggest going easy with the skinny pedal .. or driving something else.

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  22. #72
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    I thought they came with ESC? That’s a pretty major oversight for what seems to be primarily a soccermommobile and other disengaged drivers.

    EDIT: Tahoe comes with ESC, as do Silverados. GM calls it Stabilitrack. It’s the usual yaw sensor / ABS sensor nanny system.





    Ours also has a trailer stability system that is part of the Max Towing Package and the electronic brake controller. It can be switched off if you want to try and get the thing around corners without fighting nanny. Not a fun vehicle to be in a hurry with.

    StabiliTrak Electronic Stability Assist | GM Technology | GM Fleet

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    Last edited by Garandman; 01-03-18 at 12:59 AM.
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  23. #73
    Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post

    I wish they would bring back the tj, call it a "retro", or bring back an old name which seems to be the trend, and call it the new CJ, but bring back the 2006 TJ, with the 4.0 inline, 6 speed manual tranny, air conditioning, the option of electric lime green with a tan soft top, for an even 20k and call it a day.
    I have a TJ and a JK. I love my 4.0, but the newer motors are MUCH better. On the other hand, I much prefer the old 5-speed to the new 6-speed. The 5-speed is very easy to go into whatever gear you want at any time. With the 6-speed, I am ALWAYS searching for 6th in part because 5th is so vague and reverse is just awkward.

    Beyond that, the features on the JK Rubicon are just mind blowing. Push a button and your sway bar disconnects. The 4:1 t-case gives gearing so low that in low 1st on flat ground I cannot stall it no matter how hard I try. Hill start assist is annoying, but not hard to turn off, which I did. The freedom top is awesome(on the 4-door).

    Ultimately, I love my TJ, but the JK is a much better machine. I suspect the JL will be almost entirely better. One nice thing about Wranglers is that while they cost a lot initially, they hold their value REALLY well. I bought my '03 in 2009 in AZ for $13K and had someone offer me $10K for it last year(in part because it was an AZ vehicle). If I ever convinced myself to sell it, I would replace it with a JK or JL Rubicon. Those new diesels are calling me, but there is no way I would buy an automatic.

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  24. #74
    Senior Member Gixxer's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    I was moving the cars around clearing them off and shoveling (15" on the roof of my car so far, before I cleared it, and it's still snowing), and I had the Tacoma in 4wd and just realized I turned it off after I parked it and didn't put it back in 2wd... is that an issue?

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  25. #75
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: '14 wrangler vs '16 tacoma

    Leaving a vehicle parked, off in 4WD? No, that's not a problem.
    Just remember to put the t-case back in 2Hi before hitting dry pavement.

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