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Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

  1. #1
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    Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    So I'm getting ready to finish my garage, I added some stairs, next step is putting a floor upstairs for storage. I've done this before at a previous house but it didn't have the angled 1x6's up there, which gave me a ton more room to move and keep things a little neater. So my question is, do I have any options with these? I'd love to take them out completely or even replace them with a knee wall further back. I did some googling on it but I can't really find anything solid on the topic. Any thoughts?
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    Last edited by b0xmonkey; 01-08-18 at 01:57 PM.

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    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    What purpose do those 1x6 boards serve? they are useless under compression and there's no tension in that part of the structure unless the joists are way under-sized and they are holding up the floor.

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    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    If they are under tension, you could build knee walls further back with studs that extend to the bottom of the joists and beef up the joists between the knee walls with some OSB laminated to them.

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    Lifer burnham's Avatar
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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Looks almost like the used those spring boards to hang the joists from the rafters.
    Is there a beam in the space below?

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    Last edited by burnham; 01-09-18 at 06:18 PM.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    That's a cantilever style roof, don't remove those.

    Edit:
    You could convert it to a strong back style bracing as you already have collar ties in place. It is still a bit intrusive, but it doesn't have purlins at every joist so you can access the area inside the purlins for storage as well.

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    Last edited by loudbeard; 01-08-18 at 04:52 PM.
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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by burnham View Post
    Looks almost like the used those spring boards to hang the joints from the rafters.
    Is there a beam in the space below?
    No beam. Just 2x8 joists.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    That's a cantilever style roof, don't remove those.

    Edit:
    You could convert it to a strong back style bracing as you already have collar ties in place. It is still a bit intrusive, but it doesn't have purlins at every joist so you can access the area inside the purlins for storage as well.
    You're speaking Greek right now dude! From what I read, some say they keep the garage from falling over or blowing down, others say they are just there for construction to hold up the joists until the sheathing goes on. Either way, It's an attached garage, it's not going to fall over or blow away.
    edit: And to my original post, I've seen and owned other houses that had nothing at all in that space, some older some newer than this house...so why must I keep them?

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    Last edited by b0xmonkey; 01-08-18 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    They are holding your ceiling/floor up. Depending on the span, you could sister the floor/ceiling joists with LVL, or I joists. Or you could put a beam in the garage below the joists.
    You can’t just remove them, and you can’t move them to mid span of the roof rafter. Stick built roofs are by design, not rated to hold any internal weight within the rafters.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    The alternative to stickbuilt is prefab correct?

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    For a roof system, it’s stick built or truss system.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Stick built roofs are by design, not rated to hold any internal weight within the rafters.
    conventional design ......... maybe, I don't know

    what I do know, is that internal loading is whatever it is designed for

    if you want it to hold more load than normal, design it and build it that way, or maybe that $1k LVL beam I put in my barn was a waste of $$$$ cause stick built roofs have a design limit that you can't surpass

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Yeah I'm not putting in a beam just for a few extra square feet of storage. I don't know that much about the engineering of a building, but I still can't see why these diagonals have to be there when a garage that looks identical to me with no beam doesn't have these.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by b0xmonkey View Post
    Yeah I'm not putting in a beam just for a few extra square feet of storage. I don't know that much about the engineering of a building, but I still can't see why these diagonals have to be there when a garage that looks identical to me with no beam doesn't have these.

    They probably don’t need to be there to hold up the ceiling alone. Add plywood and storage space above and you change the load rating.

    How wide is the garage?
    What is the actual size of the ceiling joists?

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    conventional design ......... maybe, I don't know

    what I do know, is that internal loading is whatever it is designed for

    if you want it to hold more load than normal, design it and build it that way, or maybe that $1k LVL beam I put in my barn was a waste of $$$$ cause stick built roofs have a design limit that you can't surpass

    Unless you’re specific with whoever engineers your roof, and tell them you’re going to add internal load, it’s going to be designed by snowload in your area. My last house had a 20” LVL as a ridge, to meet current snowloads.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    They probably don’t need to be there to hold up the ceiling alone. Add plywood and storage space above and you change the load rating.

    How wide is the garage?
    What is the actual size of the ceiling joists?
    Garage is a 2 car, 2x8 joists.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by b0xmonkey View Post
    Garage is a 2 car, 2x8 joists.
    So about 24’ span. To give you an idea, the max span for 2x8 @ 16”oc for floor load is 12’. You can up that to 14’ by going 12”oc

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    So about 24’ span. To give you an idea, the max span for 2x8 @ 16”oc for floor load is 12’. You can up that to 14’ by going 12”oc
    Sounds like I should just keep it simple up there then. Doesn't seem worth it to add a beam for a small amount of storage.

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    Re: Carpenters/Builders-some garage finishing questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by b0xmonkey View Post
    Sounds like I should just keep it simple up there then. Doesn't seem worth it to add a beam for a small amount of storage.
    retrofitting, I agree,

    but in initial design and construction, it can make a big difference in many ways. my beam spans 30 feet, holds up one end of a loft designed for commercial 100lb/sf load and can support a trolley rail attached to the bottom that can lift 2 tons and I have a 30' space below with no support columns. It came in 4 2"x22"x30' sections that I bolted into a 8"x22" beam, Putting it in place almost became a fiasco, I did the "get four guys from NESR and lift it" routine, I shouldn't have engineer graduated tapes on one end of the beam and feet & inches on the other, luckily, it was only a jack stud, and discovered before we notched the beam

    glad I built it that way, it was not intended to be an office, but is out of necessity, I can't even guess how many tons of paper are in file cabinets & plan files "up in the archives" in my loft

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