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clay shooting

  1. #26
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting


    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Thanks for all the information and good suggestions. Major Waldron's is a must when we go back online!
    Gun needs to be a good around unit and under $500. I do like the idea of a semi auto but the pump action guns are attractively priced, and simpler to maintain i would guess also ?
    Still in research mode so no rush to purchase.
    carry on
    I have a Stoeger O/U, a solid gun, but heavy

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  2. #27
    Lifer union's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Thanks for all the information and good suggestions. Major Waldron's is a must when we go back online!
    Gun needs to be a good around unit and under $500. I do like the idea of a semi auto but the pump action guns are attractively priced, and simpler to maintain i would guess also ?
    Still in research mode so no rush to purchase.
    carry on
    I've found my semi auto to be simpler to break down and put back together then my pump. My O/U even easier then both. None are overly difficult once you figure it out it's just the pump gun has more parts. I am more then happy to let you try any or all of them and show you have they break down. Only my O/U is setup for clays. Other two have short barrels on them but you can still try.

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  3. #28
    Member Johnpewpew's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Thanks for all the information and good suggestions. Major Waldron's is a must when we go back online!
    Gun needs to be a good around unit and under $500. I do like the idea of a semi auto but the pump action guns are attractively priced, and simpler to maintain i would guess also ?
    Still in research mode so no rush to purchase.
    carry on
    so from the sound of it, it looks like your looking for an all around cays gun. pump guns are fun and cheaply priced but most likely you will get tired of it quick. like someone els suggested go to a local club and see if some one will let you shoot a round or 2 to see if you like it. if you find that you want to get into it and your working on a tight budget defiantly go with a semi auto. if your using the gun for just clay shooting i haven't seen a semi fail to cycle on factory clay loads yet. both my benelli and beretta ate every factory load i tossed in them. as for gun recommendation i recommend this https://www.stoegerindustries.com/clays-shotguns pick any one. stoeger's are awesome starter shotguns and priced very aggressively. stoeger semi autos are basically cheap benelli's. now people are going to tell you the stoegers are heavy and they are but for someone starting off heavy will benefit you. it will help you with the single most important thing in any clay shooting discipline.... your swing. because they are on the heavyer side you will be less likely to stop your swing this will benefit you in the long run. i had a stoeger condor when i first started. thing was a tank and it keeped asking for more. there are a few people who shoot the M3500 at my club and they shoot well. my vote goes to stoeger if you want new. but dont rule out a good used semi also keep an eye on gunbroker and armslist.

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  4. #29

    Re: clay shooting

    You guys are awesome thanks for all the invites to shoot. I am going to make a effort to go shoot at a range soon.. at the moment things are a little crazy here . as i am sure with everyone!
    I am starting work again and dealing with an injury that might affect shooting this is the reason I am looking into other hobbies other then riding.
    I see left handed guns I don't completely understand why?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I have a Stoeger O/U, a solid gun, but heavy
    what model?

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    Last edited by MUZ720; 04-27-20 at 05:51 PM.

  5. #30
    Member bassomatic's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    ....
    what model?
    Condor Competion, a little heavy for skeet but a solid value. And adjustable comb!!

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  6. #31
    Member Johnpewpew's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    You guys are awesome thanks for all the invites to shoot. I am going to make a effort to go shoot at a range soon.. at the moment things are a little crazy here . as i am sure with everyone!
    I am starting work again and dealing with an injury that might affect shooting this is the reason I am looking into other hobbies other then riding.
    I see left handed guns I don't completely understand why?

    - - - Updated - - -



    what model?
    the stoeger condor https://www.stoegerindustries.com/co...tition-shotgun
    this is a solid O/U shotgun. not to mention that stoeger has fantastic customer service

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  7. #32
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    One more thing to throw in there is eye dominance. For anyone getting started it's worth checking yourself (there are easy DIY tests).

    It kind of sucks, but if you're thinking you'd like to get into sporting shotgun disciplines (5-stand, Sporting Clays, etc) there's a pretty big benefit to mounting the gun on the same shoulder as your dominant eye and to shooting "low gun" with both eyes open. Seems it's not as much of an issue with straight-away targets like in trap (Nora Ross shoots lights out with one eye closed) but for something like sporting clays or bird hunting where you need to hit widely varying doubles and hard crossing targets you won't meet many world-class shooters who pull the trigger with one eye closed.

    Anyway, might be worth biting the bullet and starting the process on the right shoulder even though it will slow your progress at the beginning. If you want to stick with it, it will pay off in the long run. (I wish I could go back and take my own advice)

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  8. #33

    Re: clay shooting

    Currently my right wrist is injured, but when I pickup a long gun it feels good on both shoulders but my right eye is dominate . . its been awhile since I have shot anything, So it should be interesting when a try again ! I am going to give it about six weeks or so before I give it ago.

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    Last edited by MUZ720; 04-27-20 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #34
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Wait so you go with eyes over hands? I've always gone with hands over eyes when it comes to teaching shooters. For me my left hand is useless (unless it's stranger time) . I can shoot a Pistol all day long weak hand but a rifle forget it.

    Eta just adding my. 02

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    Last edited by G21forme; 04-27-20 at 07:29 PM.
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  10. #35
    Lifer union's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    I see left handed guns I don't completely understand why?
    For left handed shooters like me. My Browning a a left handed gun. The difference is in the stock.

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  11. #36
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Wait so you go with eyes over hands? I've always gone with hands over eyes when it comes to teaching shooters. For me my left hand is useless (unless it's stranger time) . I can shoot a Pistol all day long weak hand but a rifle forget it.

    Eta just adding my. 02
    Not that I ha a choice since I'm left handed and left eye dominate but if I had to choose it would be eye over hand. Reason for that is I have better vision in my left eye. Can always train muscle to work around things but you can't train clearer vision.

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  12. #37
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by union View Post
    Not that I ha a choice since I'm left handed and left eye dominate but if I had to choose it would be eye over hand. Reason for that is I have better vision in my left eye. Can always train muscle to work around things but you can't train clearer vision.
    Eta
    Guns are one thing archery is super hard to shoot cross dominance was the point of the story, sorry

    Left and left? Did you mean left/right? Sorry I always go back to archery, in my experience training students you always go with the hands. Completely different I just always go there when I look back at training cross eyed dominant folks.

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    Last edited by G21forme; 04-27-20 at 07:50 PM.
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  13. #38
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Wait so you go with eyes over hands? I've always gone with hands over eyes when it comes to teaching shooters. For me my left hand is useless (unless it's stranger time) . I can shoot a Pistol all day long weak hand but a rifle forget it.

    Eta just adding my. 02
    Yup. It's important to remember that you don't aim a shotgun like you do a pistol/rifle. You point it. It sounds like semantics, but in practice it's a big difference.

    It's generally agreed that a shooter should watch the targets emerge with both eyes open (best depth perception, widest field of view, best ability to calculate lead), without the gun mounted on the shoulder. As the shooter swings the gun from the hold point to the point they intend to hit the target the focus (where the eyes are looking) never shifts from the target.

    That leaves two options for non-dominant eye shooters, neither advantageous:
    1. Start with both eyes open, but close the dominant eye when it's time to pull the trigger. The dominant eye will naturally take the lead and track the target, but the shotgun barrel is lined up with the non-dominant eye. It's easy to see why this is a problem in practice. Mount a shotgun and "aim" it using one eye, the same eye as the shoulder that the gun is mounted to... Now close that eye and open the eye of the other shoulder without moving the gun. It's way off right? So, while there are advantages to watching the target(s) present with both eyes open, the shooter now has a big problem to fix at the last possible moment.
    2. Start with one eye closed. The shooter loses critical depth perception, field of view, etc... It can work, but it's hard to argue that there's a benefit to less field of view.

    The thing is, both of those can be done... relatively successfully, even. But they're pretty distinct disadvantages.

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  14. #39
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    You guys are awesome thanks for all the invites to shoot. I am going to make a effort to go shoot at a range soon.. at the moment things are a little crazy here . as i am sure with everyone!
    I am starting work again and dealing with an injury that might affect shooting this is the reason I am looking into other hobbies other then riding.
    I see left handed guns I don't completely understand why?

    - - - Updated - - -



    what model?
    mine is a Condor Longfowler 30" barrel 12ga O/U

    got it at KTP on a fantastic deal, their reg price $399, I had a $75 coupon I got in a flyer, and because they closed down the NH outlet, they were giving another discount that was enuf to cover sales tax on a $750 gun, and I was only paying tax on $325, so actual cash outa my pocket was only $305

    the breakdown action was too tight, I had to file and polish, I got it so that it is ok, but it will get better with use

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    RandyO
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  15. #40
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Mike View Post
    Yup. It's important to remember that you don't aim a shotgun like you do a pistol/rifle. You point it. It sounds like semantics, but in practice it's a big difference.

    It's generally agreed that a shooter should watch the targets emerge with both eyes open (best depth perception, widest field of view, best ability to calculate lead), without the gun mounted on the shoulder. As the shooter swings the gun from the hold point to the point they intend to hit the target the focus (where the eyes are looking) never shifts from the target.

    That leaves two options for non-dominant eye shooters, neither advantageous:
    1. Start with both eyes open, but close the dominant eye when it's time to pull the trigger. The dominant eye will naturally take the lead and track the target, but the shotgun barrel is lined up with the non-dominant eye. It's easy to see why this is a problem in practice. Mount a shotgun and "aim" it using one eye, the same eye as the shoulder that the gun is mounted to... Now close that eye and open the eye of the other shoulder without moving the gun. It's way off right? So, while there are advantages to watching the target(s) present with both eyes open, the shooter now has a big problem to fix at the last possible moment.
    2. Start with one eye closed. The shooter loses critical depth perception, field of view, etc... It can work, but it's hard to argue that there's a benefit to less field of view.

    The thing is, both of those can be done... relatively successfully, even. But they're pretty distinct disadvantages.
    Is it really that far off? I mean we are talking a shotgun and clays... Honest question as I've always struggled teaching cross dominant friends, some do very well with hands and some do well with eyes. Luckily I'm right/right

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  16. #41
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Is it really that far off? I mean we are talking a shotgun and clays...
    100%
    I mean, maybe you'll still hit a doorknob from across the room, but...

    If we're hand throwing close-range targets in a sand pit with a cylinder choked 12-ga it might not seem like an issue, but trying to hit FITASC targets at greater speeds/angles/distances is much, much harder. Open competition tends to weed all of this out... It's not hitting that FITASC target presentation that's important, it's hitting more of those targets more consistently than the competition who is mounting the gun based on dominant eye and seeing the targets with both eyes open.

    Again, the point I'm making is not that it's impossible to break targets with one, or even both eyes closed for that matter (we've done that on skeet station 7 low house), it's that it's nearly universally agreed to be a disadvantage.

    For those just starting out and expecting/hoping to stick with it/fall in love, eye dominance is worth thinking about while still in the beginner stages.

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    Last edited by Tricky Mike; 04-27-20 at 08:45 PM.

  17. #42
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Thanks for all the information and good suggestions. Major Waldron's is a must when we go back online!
    Gun needs to be a good around unit and under $500. I do like the idea of a semi auto but the pump action guns are attractively priced, and simpler to maintain i would guess also ?
    Still in research mode so no rush to purchase.
    carry on
    For 500 bucks you'll be hard pressed to find a good autoloader and even harder pressed to find a good over/under. I was in the same boat & just went w/ a quality pump. No ragerts.

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  18. #43
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Mike View Post
    100%
    I mean, maybe you'll still hit a doorknob from across the room, but...

    If we're hand throwing close-range targets in a sand pit with a cylinder choked 12-ga it might not seem like an issue, but trying to hit FITASC targets at greater speeds/angles/distances is much, much harder. Open competition tends to weed all of this out... It's not hitting that FITASC target presentation that's important, it's hitting more of those targets more consistently than the competition who is mounting the gun based on dominant eye and seeing the targets with both eyes open.

    Again, the point I'm making is not that it's impossible to break targets with one, or even both eyes closed for that matter (we've done that on skeet station 7 low house), it's that it's nearly universally agreed to be a disadvantage.
    Thanks for the education, much appreciated. So both eyes open then close the dominant or non dominant eye for the shot. Again eyes open shooter

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  19. #44
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Regarding the eye dominance thing, I always thought you should go with eye over hand until I heard you & Johnny both make the argument against it...

    And what you guys said makes a lot of sense for pistol/rifle/archery, etc. at an Olympic level... But for skeet/trap/clays, where both eyes need to be open with your central vision on the target and basically just the peripheral vision of your dominant eye is what's looking at the front bead, I can understand why eye dominance would be the more important factor.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 04-27-20 at 09:07 PM.
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  20. #45
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Important to remember that pistols and rifles have rear sights. Sporting shotguns don't. The rear sight is a combination of how the gun is mounted and the eye above the shoulder it's mounted to... So imagine two shotguns. In one case the rear sight (shooters eye) is in line with the barrel. In another case the rear sight is the opposite eye. The shooter is looking across the barrel, not down the barrel... fairly significantly too. Seriously. It's easy to see, even at 20 yards. Mount the gun and close the dominant eye. That's the difference.

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  21. #46
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Regarding the eye dominance thing, I always thought you should go with eye over hand until I heard you & Johnny both make the argument against it...

    And what you guys said makes a lot of sense for pistol/rifle/archery, etc. at an Olympic level... But for skeet/trap/clays, where both eyes need to be open with your central vision on the target and basically just the peripheral vision of your dominant eye is what's looking at the sights, I can understand why eye dominance would be the more important factor.
    Shooting 90m cross dominance with an Olympic style recurve is rediculously hard. Trust me I trained at lake placid and a bud just couldn't do it no matter how hard he tried bless his heart. 20m good to go but 100 yards plus not so much. And I say Olympic style archery because when I trained compounds were not allowed in the Olympics.

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  22. #47
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Shooting 90m cross dominance with an Olympic style recurve is rediculously hard. Trust me I trained at lake placid and a bud just couldn't do it no matter how hard he tried bless his heart. 20m good to go but 100 yards plus not so much. And I say Olympic style archery because when I trained compounds were not allowed in the Olympics.
    I'm with that guy! It's legit.

    After I got into shotguns I got into archery, but nothing at that level.. shooting compound through a peep sight. I really didn't have any experience, so I said fuck it... I'll shoot lefty based on my eye dominance. Weird at first, but man, what a difference in sight picture/clarity. I could see the target perfectly without straining through the sights... I'm not sure the exercise helped my cross-dominant shotgun scores, but oh well. Kind of solved one of my internal debates. My eye dominance isn't particularly pronounced, but it exists, even if only slightly, and it seems like it matters. If I could go back I'd fight through the awkward beginning of learning to shoot the shotgun lefty.

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  23. #48
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Yeah Olympic recurve is 90% body 10% bow.

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  24. #49
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    Re: clay shooting

    I've seen a number of people who place opaque stickers on their shooting glasses over the dominant wrong eye, but it only covers the center portion of the glasses so target acquisition is available but sighting is blurred to the dominant eye and forces the gun eye to pick up the sight. Some do that only until they train their eyes and others do it forever it would seem. I don't know how proper that it but it works for them.

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  25. #50
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: clay shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    I've seen a number of people who place opaque stickers on their shooting glasses over the dominant wrong eye, but it only covers the center portion of the glasses so target acquisition is available but sighting is blurred to the dominant eye and forces the gun eye to pick up the sight. Some do that only until they train their eyes and others do it forever it would seem. I don't know how proper that it but it works for them.
    Absolutely. It's such a common issue. There are also a variety of different products to address it. They're helpful, but often come at some cost. I've used these easy hit sight tubes off and on. https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Easy.../dp/B004U8M52E

    You can't really see the sight with your off-shoulder eye, so you regain some control over which eye sees the front sight. The rub is that ideally, you're looking at the target, not the sight. "Checking" the front sight is one of the most common ways to miss behind a crossing target.

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