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Crypto currency discussion

  1. #351
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion


    Quote Originally Posted by k1200s View Post
    I mean believe what you want, but I think your making a big mistake by investing based on your emotions and not logic. I won't argue with you any more, but if you knew more about how money actually works and where fiat currency's derive their value you might start to see why everyone is beating up on it. I think it is pretty inappropriate to encourage people to buy something you don't understand but you obv arent changing your mind.

    10k invested in the stock market at 25 is $227,000 by the time you are 65, pretty much guaranteed. I'll take my stocks over this any day, and you'd probably do better saving at foxwoods than bit coin, but to each his own. Just don't be relying on my social security taxes for your retirement because that's going away quick.
    Wait did you just say your stocks are guaranteed?

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  2. #352
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    Wait did you just say your stocks are guaranteed?

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  3. #353
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    I said pretty much guaranteed because the stock market has literally always gone up in the long term since its inception. While it is theoretically possible the entire US economy will crash permanently, it is pretty unlikely.

    Again, the more you know.

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  4. #354
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Oh I see.

    I wonder if the dudes with a ton of ENE thought "Eh, it'll go back up eventually. It's virtually a guarantee!"

    Or GM holders when it dropped to nothing, restructured, and the old stocks were worth nothing.

    I mean there's plenty more but safe investments aren't safe. "Pretty much guaranteed" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard haha. GE has tanked lately too. Yeah that'll probably come back someday, but that isn't always how it works.

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  5. #355
    Member k1200s's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    Oh I see.

    I wonder if the dudes with a ton of ENE thought "Eh, it'll go back up eventually. It's virtually a guarantee!"

    Or GM holders when it dropped to nothing, restructured, and the old stocks were worth nothing.

    I mean there's plenty more but safe investments aren't safe. "Pretty much guaranteed" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard haha. GE has tanked lately too. Yeah that'll probably come back someday, but that isn't always how it works.
    More ignorance projected onto others. If you ever actually looked into investing you would know that no one ever has encouraged individuals to invest into individual stocks. You should be investing into low cost index funds and ETF's namely any by Vangaurd which usually charges $5-10 per 10,000 to provide you with a diversified basket of stocks. Then you would only be holding at most 8% or so in Enron which could be offset if you have uncorrelated holdings.

    Yes, if you buy individual stocks you will def lose money but no one ever has encouraged you to do that....

    Just a side note, I do have a masters degree in accounting and 3+ years of investment experience and work at a large regional accounting firm with a focus on banks. Am I an expert? Hell no, but i can easily smell the bull shit you guys are spouting off and I don't think you have much real knowledge of this issue based on responses. Take my advice or leave it but your not going to convince me bitcoin is safe or valuable

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  6. #356
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    I'm not even arguing FOR crypto, I'm just arguing that your virtual guarantee is as worthless as you claim virtual money is lol.

    No one cares about your credentials.

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  7. #357
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    And it hurts your career and knowledge base to have crypto currencies thrive. Ok, starting to figure out the inherit bias.

    Of course the horse shoe salesman says cars are a worthless fad.

    And people were paying outrageous amounts of money for tulips in Holland at one point.

    Somewhere in between is crypto. Sorry to rain on your "fiat is the only way ever and nothing better will ever come about" parade, but even Warren Buffett said Amazon and Google weren't worth investing in early on.

    Imagine if people didn't need to pay someone like you. How about that? Hmmm.

    There is value to decentralized currencies. Just not in your profession/life. It's a direct threat.


    Now I will agree that crypto is a good way to move financial assets without government knowledge. But to assert that by buying and selling crypto is stomping on puppies and raping uncle sam in the butthole is just drama. But on that same token (kinda a crypto pun), every time I make a profit buying/selling crypto, I'm taking money AWAY from those bad people. Right? Or does it somehow make fuzzy logic that everyone makes money forever? This isn't the stock market after all.

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  8. #358
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    And it hurts your career and knowledge base to have crypto currencies thrive. Ok, starting to figure out the inherit bias.

    Of course the horse shoe salesman says cars are a worthless fad.

    And people were paying outrageous amounts of money for tulips in Holland at one point.

    Somewhere in between is crypto. Sorry to rain on your "fiat is the only way ever and nothing better will ever come about" parade, but even Warren Buffett said Amazon and Google weren't worth investing in early on.

    Imagine if people didn't need to pay someone like you. How about that? Hmmm.

    There is value to decentralized currencies. Just not in your profession/life. It's a direct threat.


    Now I will agree that crypto is a good way to move financial assets without government knowledge. But to assert that by buying and selling crypto is stomping on puppies and raping uncle sam in the butthole is just drama. But on that same token (kinda a crypto pun), every time I make a profit buying/selling crypto, I'm taking money AWAY from those bad people. Right? Or does it somehow make fuzzy logic that everyone makes money forever? This isn't the stock market after all.
    Couple things, I am an accountant, job security is not an issue. Bit coins, fiat, or glubux, I will still have a well paying job and have literally no skin at all in this game lol.... not sure why crypto would have any effect on that.

    If you think that bitcoins would mean that you for some reason wouldn't need a mortgage or any other kind of loan, and all banks collapsed, and while working the most stable career in America I couldn't find another job, then yeah I guess I would be nervous about crypto but.... why would any of that happen? It is a different currency, not free money. People will still need banks.

    2: you again showcase a lack of understanding of economics. The only people actually using crypto are using it for illegal purposes, the rest are speculating. These nefarious orgs are not buying and holding crypto like you and are not taking gains or losses, they are transacting with it as a currency. By buying and selling you are providing them the liquidity to make that possible. If person A, an anti US terrorist, wants to fund A Qaida, all he has to do is go buy a bit coin, which are readily available now and send that untracked coin to al Qaida who then sells it or uses it to purchase illegal goods. They are not an investment fund holding these to speculate, and are not taking gains or losses. You are very literally financing terrorists and this has been brought up by other critics too.

    Most people care about the credentials of who is providing them investment advice, but if you want to get your investment advice from your mechanic/dentist/friends, go ahead

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    Last edited by k1200s; 05-10-18 at 11:20 AM.

  9. #359
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    I'm also curious what you mean by "untracked". Literally every transaction is permanently recorded on the blockchain and is publicly visible.

    Bitcoin is one word.

    You're also high if you think no one is using cryptocurrency for legitimate purposes. Craigslist has it as a payment option for christ sake. Pornhub is taking XVG as payment. XRP is working with western union and they're trying to eliminate the need for nostro accounts in cross border payments. Siacoin is a way to pay for third party / cloud storage. Ethereum is for smart contracts which is literally the future lol. Yeah bitcoin wanted to be a currency, there are reasons that isn't going to happen that are more technical than conceptual. Blockchain will replace fiat.

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  10. #360
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by k1200s View Post
    Most people care about the credentials of who is providing them investment advice, but if you want to get your investment advice from your mechanic/dentist/friends, go ahead
    In a sense you're right. The problem is that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You may be great with money but the fact that you don't believe crpyto is being used right now by real people who aren't terrorists tells me that you're not a very technical person, and you're talking about something you read in an article or saw on the news. So you may be flaunting your credentials but all I'm seeing is a guy who's talking about something he doesn't know anything about, just like you're seeing.

    Take it or leave it, but crypto is a LOT bigger than you think it is, and it's going to keep getting bigger. Blockchain is the future bub. Even if BTC isn't.

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  11. #361
    Member k1200s's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    I have nothing else to add at this point, were way off topic and people are flailing for ridiculous arguments. Craigslist doesn't sell anything, the fact that they allow people selling stuff to choose to accept crypto isn't ground breaking or evidence it is a currency, I could also choose to accept banana peels as payment, it's just not an option on the website. If they made it an option to choose to accept banana peels that doesn't make banana peels currency, it just means there are at least some people on craigslist who value banana peels....

    But seriously, I'm not going to start a fin 101 class on here just because you guys chose to duct tape your rose tinted glasses on. Good luck but I do see this ending very badly for anyone who isn't even remotely skeptical, and is a very bad habit to get into

    Not sure how many trust fox news - I don't- but they arent the only ones with these kinds of stories. Look into it yourself. 85k of financing from 1 person blows away the tiney amount of legit transactions and there's obv more.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...y-attacks.html

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    Last edited by k1200s; 05-10-18 at 11:46 AM.

  12. #362
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    What are you even talking about? I never said send money to craigslist. It's on there as an accepted payment option. If no one used it they wouldn't have added that feature.

    Does your fin101 class cover terror101 as well? If you want to talk about flailing arguments we should start there. Should we all stop using USD because it gets sent back to the middle east to fund terrorism? I'm just a little lost in what you're getting at with that honestly. Is all crypto made up by terrorists to get americans to throw money at it so they can fund their terror?

    Or are they just making money trading it like everyone else?

    because according to you that CANNOT happen because fin101. It's a terrible investment.

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  13. #363
    Member k1200s's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    What are you even talking about? I never said send money to craigslist. It's on there as an accepted payment option. If no one used it they wouldn't have added that feature.

    Does your fin101 class cover terror101 as well? If you want to talk about flailing arguments we should start there. Should we all stop using USD because it gets sent back to the middle east to fund terrorism? I'm just a little lost in what you're getting at with that honestly. Is all crypto made up by terrorists to get americans to throw money at it so they can fund their terror?

    Or are they just making money trading it like everyone else?

    because according to you that CANNOT happen because fin101. It's a terrible investment.
    Re read my post more carefully this time and read the edit at the end.

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  14. #364
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by k1200s View Post
    Couple things, I am an accountant, job security is not an issue. Bit coins, fiat, or glubux, I will still have a well paying job and have literally no skin at all in this game lol.... not sure why crypto would have any effect on that.

    If you think that bitcoins would mean that you for some reason wouldn't need a mortgage or any other kind of loan, and all banks collapsed, and while working the most stable career in America I couldn't find another job, then yeah I guess I would be nervous about crypto but.... why would any of that happen? It is a different currency, not free money. People will still need banks.

    2: you again showcase a lack of understanding of economics. The only people actually using crypto are using it for illegal purposes, the rest are speculating. These nefarious orgs are not buying and holding crypto like you and are not taking gains or losses, they are transacting with it as a currency. By buying and selling you are providing them the liquidity to make that possible. If person A, an anti US terrorist, wants to fund A Qaida, all he has to do is go buy a bit coin, which are readily available now and send that untracked coin to al Qaida who then sells it or uses it to purchase illegal goods. They are not an investment fund holding these to speculate, and are not taking gains or losses. You are very literally financing terrorists and this has been brought up by other critics too.

    Most people care about the credentials of who is providing them investment advice, but if you want to get your investment advice from your mechanic/dentist/friends, go ahead
    Shall we compare my lack of understanding of economics with your lack of understanding of crypto?

    The inherently secure open transaction model of blockchain transactions is complex, yet fairly well thought out. It's also a new model for financial transactions and will need adjustment as time goes on to better suit it to various socioeconomic factors.

    And ever since we removed any tangible assets from being bonded to the dollar, we made it just as speculative and "worthless" as any other currency. Oh, but that's right. It's backed by a government with $21 TRILLION in debt. Yeah, super secure and stable there.

    Crypto has it's place. Maybe not yet, or ever, as a replacement for fiat, but the technology that is the foundation can and is being used for many other purposes. The nature of distributed computing and transparent transactions that are verified by millions of verifiers with the sole interest of being able to be paid for verifying transactions is inherently stable.

    Think of it this way.

    As an accountant, you have someone else verify your work after it's completed, right?

    Blockchain is hundreds of thousands of people all looking at your work, checking it, agreeing that you did it, then publicly posting your work. That's it. Everything else value wise is human/business influences. It's completely market driven. Is one Bitcoin worth $9300? Well, if someone is willing to pay $9300 useless worthless paper dollars for it, then no, it's not. If someone is willing to pay nothing, then it's worthless.

    If all transactions, including taxation, mortgages, credit cards, etc, were public record for all transactions, then there is no need for accounting as we do it today. It would change significantly. Especially the taxation part, since our model of "we tell the government how much we think we should pay" wouldn't apply anymore. If the government had free and public access to every transaction and account you owned, they would tell YOU how much tax you owe.

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  15. #365
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Shall we compare my lack of understanding of economics with your lack of understanding of crypto?

    The inherently secure open transaction model of blockchain transactions is complex, yet fairly well thought out. It's also a new model for financial transactions and will need adjustment as time goes on to better suit it to various socioeconomic factors.

    And ever since we removed any tangible assets from being bonded to the dollar, we made it just as speculative and "worthless" as any other currency. Oh, but that's right. It's backed by a government with $21 TRILLION in debt. Yeah, super secure and stable there.

    Crypto has it's place. Maybe not yet, or ever, as a replacement for fiat, but the technology that is the foundation can and is being used for many other purposes. The nature of distributed computing and transparent transactions that are verified by millions of verifiers with the sole interest of being able to be paid for verifying transactions is inherently stable.

    Think of it this way.

    As an accountant, you have someone else verify your work after it's completed, right?

    Blockchain is hundreds of thousands of people all looking at your work, checking it, agreeing that you did it, then publicly posting your work. That's it. Everything else value wise is human/business influences. It's completely market driven. Is one Bitcoin worth $9300? Well, if someone is willing to pay $9300 useless worthless paper dollars for it, then no, it's not. If someone is willing to pay nothing, then it's worthless.

    If all transactions, including taxation, mortgages, credit cards, etc, were public record for all transactions, then there is no need for accounting as we do it today. It would change significantly. Especially the taxation part, since our model of "we tell the government how much we think we should pay" wouldn't apply anymore. If the government had free and public access to every transaction and account you owned, they would tell YOU how much tax you owe.
    Now your agreeing with my first post. Crypto will be gone, blockchain is here to stay. We will see almost every company move their systems to a blockchain system and the feds may apply blockchain to fiat, but there will never be a national decentralized currency.

    And the feds could already tell you how much tax you owe, but our country uses a voluntary system to levy taxes so you would still file a return, just in bitcoin not USD. Moving to or from blockchain has nothing to do with a voluntary tax system.

    Also, the 1099's. W-2 ect you use to file your taxes is already being sent to the IRS, thats why there multiple copies of the same doc and that is way unrelated to this, they have that info already.

    You are confusing the national debt with the value of our currency, which is foolish. Go look at any company, they all have debt and that debt allows them to invest in income producing assets the national debt does not effect the value of our currency lol.

    All fiat money derives its value from what people will pay for it, that is why the fed sells t bills at a discount lol.... the value of a dollar is determined by how many dollars you will pay today for a dollar in the future, meaning a dollar derives its value from public consensus not the national debt

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  16. #366
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Any crypto derives it's value the same way. Except there is no debt tied to it's value. A government can't influence it the same way it can monetary policy. That's the point of decentralization. As said earlier in this thread, there can be outside influences, but not the same set of influences that value or devalue traditional currency, which is primarily country based.

    What it ends up being is simple clock cycles. There is value in computing. There is value in it for people looking to utilize those clock cycles, and there is value in it for those performing the clock cycles.

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  17. #367
    Member k1200s's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Any crypto derives it's value the same way. Except there is no debt tied to it's value. A government can't influence it the same way it can monetary policy.
    Total lack of reading comprehension, for the 3rd time: national debt doesn't have anything to do with currency. Switching to bitcoin isn't like flipping over the monopoly board where you can make everyone start over. Our country would still have a national debt and would still be totally unrelated to currency value.

    Also consider all the pump and dump, fraud, and theft and I have no idea what you are talking about as far as no manipulation. You mean experienced institutions that have been handling monetary policy for centuries can't do anything helpful, but scammers can have a field day? Mt gox anyone or just pretend that wasn't real?

    It's not that I think blockchain is worthless, but you guys are valuing crypto for all the wrong reasons, basically giving it merit only based on the things that our money already does but you just don't understand

    Are you not concerned you have invested money based on extreamly basic and misguided preconceptions that I keep disproving? If you are just having fun in crypto, enjoy it, speculating is fun. But if losing any would hurt you, sell now, invest in vangaurd, and sleep well at night like the rest of us

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    Last edited by k1200s; 05-10-18 at 01:21 PM.

  18. #368
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    No, I am going bet everything I own on it. I'm heading to the payday lender after work. And the title loan company too. I've maxed out my credit cards on it and re-mortgaged the house. Right?

    Dude, where is this "it's either extreme A or extreme B" mentality coming from?

    People can dabble. Just as people buy lottery tickets, or stocks for a questionable company, or take a risk on real estate. Crypto is no different. People dictate the value in all those scenarios in different ways.


    We get it. You don't like it.


    So here is something I tell people who are anti-abortion.


    Don't get one.

    Ok?

    In other news, ETH seems to have stabilized around $740 daily. Glad I didn't dump at $370 a short time ago.

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  19. #369
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    No, I am going bet everything I own on it. I'm heading to the payday lender after work. And the title loan company too. I've maxed out my credit cards on it and re-mortgaged the house. Right?

    Dude, where is this "it's either extreme A or extreme B" mentality coming from?

    People can dabble. Just as people buy lottery tickets, or stocks for a questionable company, or take a risk on real estate. Crypto is no different. People dictate the value in all those scenarios in different ways.


    We get it. You don't like it.


    So here is something I tell people who are anti-abortion.


    Don't get one.

    Ok?

    In other news, ETH seems to have stabilized around $740 daily. Glad I didn't dump at $370 a short time ago.
    All I'm saying is, when you are encouraging other people to buy in by creating hype, but are 100% talking out of your ass, people should call you out. Being on here with no idea of how fiat works but telling people to buy crypto is the same as if someone who never rode a bike came on here talking about how dangerous it is. Your gonna get called out. Yeah I'm being really scrutinizing, but otherwise this would be a thread of fan boys hyping up something they don't get.

    Now I will finally let it go haha. Good luck in all seriousness but fomo investing is real, don't give advice if you don't actually know what you are saying because people feel bad about missing out and do stupid shit with their money. Spec when they see others did well

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  20. #370
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    In other news, ETH seems to have stabilized around $740 daily. Glad I didn't dump at $370 a short time ago.
    #HODLgang

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  21. #371
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Literally the first piece of advice anyone gives anyone in the crypto space is "Don't invest anything you're not comfortable waking up without tomorrow" but k1200 is here to tell us all we don't know how risky it is.

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  22. #372
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by k1200s View Post
    All I'm saying is, when you are encouraging other people to buy in by creating hype, but are 100% talking out of your ass, people should call you out. Being on here with no idea of how fiat works but telling people to buy crypto is the same as if someone who never rode a bike came on here talking about how dangerous it is. Your gonna get called out. Yeah I'm being really scrutinizing, but otherwise this would be a thread of fan boys hyping up something they don't get.

    Now I will finally let it go haha. Good luck in all seriousness but fomo investing is real, don't give advice if you don't actually know what you are saying because people feel bad about missing out and do stupid shit with their money. Spec when they see others did well
    Show me the post where I recommended people to buy, EVER.

    I'll wait.

    Mind you, I've said MULTIPLE times in this thread that I have no $$$ skin in this game. I don't buy crypto.

    But you know me so well. So go ahead. Show me.

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  23. #373
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    BTW, may want to remind Argentina and Venezuela that government debt and actions have no value on a currency. They seemed to have forgotten.

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  24. #374
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by k1200s View Post

    You are confusing the national debt with the value of our currency, which is foolish. Go look at any company, they all have debt and that debt allows them to invest in income producing assets the national debt does not effect the value of our currency lol.
    Wow. If a country that backs a currency is very heavy in debt, guess who wants their currency? Or wanna speculate on how much interest they will have to pay for a loan if paid back in their own currency? Or maybe wanna look at one of the factors that goes into currency exchange rates. Debt has a lot more influence than you think.

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  25. #375
    Senior Member capitalcrew's Avatar
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    Re: Crypto currency discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    Wow. If a country that backs a currency is very heavy in debt, guess who wants their currency? Or wanna speculate on how much interest they will have to pay for a loan if paid back in their own currency? Or maybe wanna look at one of the factors that goes into currency exchange rates. Debt has a lot more influence than you think.
    Relax he's an accountant he knows what he's talking about.

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