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View Poll Results: How did it appear to you, please comment

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  • It was a wash

    4 33.33%
  • I got the other sides views

    0 0%
  • Kerry got Krushed(get it Kerry---Krushed)

    4 33.33%
  • Bush got Bashed(get it Bush---Bashed)

    4 33.33%
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The last debate

  1. #26
    Lifer
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    The last debate


    Sorry man.. I took economics in college too and I don't think it is demonstrable that lower taxes always boosts the economy... It is a freakin nasty, complicated system. If it were that simple the computer models would be able to figure everything out and we'd be living in a WAY different world.

    The spending is the bigger part of the problem IMO.

    And Bush has just been insanely fiscally irresponsible.

    That is another thing I don't understand. Republicans love Reagan, and he ran up a huge deficit too.

    Bush I and Clinton were both much better about being responsible weren't they?

    Ben

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  2. #27
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    I will agree that Bush has been pretty crazy with the way that he has spent, but I really think that he is trying to get a handle on that. Yes, the war in Iraq is incredibly expensive and, yes, the Homeland Security Dept. is another big expense. But, I do think that he is trying to make the cuts in alot of the useless pork barrell programs and some of the entitlement programs that do not belong as a function of government.

    But, his tax cuts have had a DIRECT effect on me. I have more money in the bank than I did 4 years ago, that is powerful stuff!!!

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    LRRS#167

  3. #28
    Lifer
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    The last debate

    You can point to you having more money in the bank, but there are all kinds of other effects to the economy that are very complex that could easily erase that. Looking at a thousand dollars or something in your bank account is a short term view.

    The deficit is a big one that is looming that will affect our bank accounts over the long run.

    E.x. negative effects lowering taxes can have

    - Have to cut funding for transportation & infrastructure - shipping is more difficult, huts businesses, they may not move in or may move their businesses

    - Cut funding for education - 20 years down the road you have no engineers & scientists, etc.. and you can't compete in high tech fields. (Ever wonder why so much of the high tech revolution happened in CA and MA instead of South Carolina and Oklahoma?)

    Now if you run up a deficit you can still fund everything, and of course there is government waste, but it is not a perfect truth that lowering taxes will always help things.

    But Presidents and CEOs don't have to deal with consequences 20 years later, so in our current environment they are only accountable for the short term.

    Ben

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  4. #29
    ultrabuddy twrayinma's Avatar
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    The last debate

    if it's in the bank, then you're not spending it, and not fueling the economy.


    you fucking communist.

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  5. #30
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    if it's in the bank, then you're not spending it, and not fueling the economy.
    Yes, there is plenty in the bank, but I also have three more motorcycyles in my garage along with much more gear, tools, bling, etc. Of course, this is all in addition to bigger TVs, computers, etc.

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    LRRS#167

  6. #31
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    The last debate

    I agree with you with expanding the economy but the economy isn't expanding really. It is sort of holding its own barely, So I wonder where we would be without the tax cuts.

    However part of me wonders what will happen when we will have to pay for it seeing the government just ran out of money again?

    This is how economies crash.

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  7. #32
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Yes, there is plenty in the bank, but I also have three more motorcycyles in my garage along with much more gear, tools, bling, etc. Of course, this is all in addition to bigger TVs, computers, etc.
    3 Motorcycles =Japan
    TV = Japan, China or Taiwan
    Computers = Japan, China or Taiwan
    Leathers = Italy or China or Japan
    Helmet = China or Korea
    Tools = China (maybe some US)
    Bling = US

    So whose economy does that support?

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  8. #33
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    In response to Ben...
    Yes, more money in my bank account is a short term thing. But consider that I also have money now that I place into a brokerage account, every month, which is something I could not have done 4 years ago. That IS a long term thing.

    I understand the defecit too. And, I think that would be payed down quicker by eliminating many of the ineffective government entitlement programs.

    I don't think that cutting education is something that we should even consider because I agree with you that we ought to invest in future generations for the same reasons you pointed out.

    Anyway, I believe Bush is the better guy, all the way around.

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  9. #34
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    My purchases and yours effect not only the economies of the other countries that you listed, but the US economy as well because of the fact that those companies employ US workers and they are sold, distributed, warehoused, etc. in the USA.

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    LRRS#167

  10. #35
    I Dance With Will
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    In response to Ben...
    Yes, more money in my bank account is a short term thing. But consider that I also have money now that I place into a brokerage account, every month, which is something I could not have done 4 years ago. That IS a long term thing.
    how come you can't do it 4 yrs ago? how much tax cut do you get really? lets say 1200/yr? so that comes out to $100/m and you put all that in the bank. right? that's good. still a long way to retirement. no? or do you use all that to fuel the economy? but if someone wants to save all that for retirement, is that illegal? no, then that doesn't help the economy much. correct?

    probly not all that simple but

    Originally posted by lrrs167

    I understand the defecit too. And, I think that would be payed down quicker by eliminating many of the ineffective government entitlement programs.
    i think Kerry is for cutting the fed spending and Bush is against?

    but hey i'v been wrong before.

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    "fuckit!"

  11. #36
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Hey, I'll concede that Bush is not the only reason why my life is much better, finacially, than it was 4 years ago. But, I was offering an example in the simplest of terms, that is all. Most of what I have accomplished over that time is because of my hard work. But, I do like that Bush understands that people ought to be able to keep more of the money that they earn by way of their hard work and that they ought not be taxed at a higher rate when they reach $200K or more. BTW, $200K is NOT wealthy, it is well off, but NOT wealthy. John Kerry is way out of touch with this concept.

    A flat tax is the only way to insure that all are paying their fair share. Do away with the IRS and SIMPLIFY the tax code, it is currently waaaay to complicated and cumbersome and INEFFECTIVE.

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  12. #37
    I Dance With Will
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by lrrs167

    A flat tax is the only way to insure that all are paying their fair share. Do away with the IRS and SIMPLIFY the tax code, it is currently waaaay to complicated and cumbersome and INEFFECTIVE.
    i think you should consult the tax expert, Squid. he said flat tax is bad.


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    "fuckit!"

  13. #38
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Squid is gone. Where did he go?

    I think someone knows...

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    LRRS#167

  14. #39
    aka Johnny Valve Stem need4speed's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    Squid is gone. Where did he go?

    I think someone knows...
    He's gone to never neverland to play with Michael Jackson

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    John
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    "To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains".


  15. #40
    Littering and........
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    The last debate

    I was looking for the box for

    Neither one of those touchholes can answer a fucking question, neither one of them is going to keep any of their promises, and neither one is someone I ever want to meet. They both make me sick.

    I recommend that everyone watch the movie "Head of State" with Chris Rock. They clearly show how a debate should be held, particularly when Chris Rock advises everyone that his opponent is "full of shit". A little honesty. Something missing from today's politics.


    Pardon me. I have to now, I thought about our presidential candidates.

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  16. #41
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    The last debate

    I am not sure what tax cut you guys are talking about, but I got some $300 check a year or so ago and when it came to doing my returns I had to give it back. I remember saying at that time, what the hell is all this talk about tax cuts? All this big friggin hype and talk netted me $10. Big friggin deal.

    We didn't have any children so that didn't help us.

    Bush took away my wifes "Teacher" $250 tax credit this year for the supplies that she spends on for her students with her own money. She spends way more than that. That only hurts the kids as some teachers count on that.

    This marriage penalty--- didn't do anything for us as we are middle income people.

    So where is my tax cut? Oh wait that went to the high income over $200k a year people that is where it went.

    I would rather give my $10 a year back to govt and sleep at night knowing that there will be medicare and SS and for our troops and security.

    Oh and wait wasn't our economy doing just fine in the high tax years of Reagan, Ford, Carter and Clinton?

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  17. #42
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by Kham




    i think Kerry is for cutting the fed spending and Bush is against?

    but hey i'v been wrong before.

    And you're wrong again!

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  18. #43
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by TheIglu
    Kerry is getting heat for standing up for everyone.
    oh man, thanks. I haven't laughed that hard in a looooooong time!

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  19. #44
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Again, no point in arguing here. It is damn near impossible to get any points across in a way that everyone will understand.

    So what about my idea of meeting at F1 for drinks and cart racing and some friendly political talk? I think we would have a great time and we don't even have to discuss politics at all. I think it would be a great winter thing to do in order to help us all get over the fact that we won't be riding again until spring. And, I will waste any and all challengers on the track!!!!!

    So how 'bout it peeps????? NESR day at F1 Boston. Let's make it happen.

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  20. #45
    I Dance With Will
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by snowborder
    I am not sure what tax cut you guys are talking about, but I got some $300 check a year or so ago and when it came to doing my returns I had to give it back. I remember saying at that time, what the hell is all this talk about tax cuts? All this big friggin hype and talk netted me $10. Big friggin deal.

    We didn't have any children so that didn't help us.

    Bush took away my wifes "Teacher" $250 tax credit this year for the supplies that she spends on for her students with her own money. She spends way more than that. That only hurts the kids as some teachers count on that.

    This marriage penalty--- didn't do anything for us as we are middle income people.

    So where is my tax cut? Oh wait that went to the high income over $200k a year people that is where it went.

    I would rather give my $10 a year back to govt and sleep at night knowing that there will be medicare and SS and for our troops and security.

    Oh and wait wasn't our economy doing just fine in the high tax years of Reagan, Ford, Carter and Clinton?
    that's what i said. where's the tax cut for the poor bastids like me. the two big things for me are the Iraq war and jobs lost. im sick of hearing the repetitive defensive line everytime Iraq is mention. i watch the Pennsylvania town hall meeting last night with CNN and got really sick of hearing Liz Chaney repeating Bush's line about Iraq.

    "where are the WMDs?"
    "well we know he has the capabilities and blah blah blah..."

    sick.

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    "fuckit!"

  21. #46
    Lifer SEVENSGT's Avatar
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    The last debate

    Originally posted by Kham
    that's what i said. where's the tax cut for the poor bastids like me. the two big things for me are the Iraq war and jobs lost. im sick of hearing the repetitive defensive line everytime Iraq is mention. i watch the Pennsylvania town hall meeting last night with CNN and got really sick of hearing Liz Chaney repeating Bush's line about Iraq.

    "where are the WMDs?"
    "well we know he has the capabilities and blah blah blah..."

    sick.

    Jobs lost huh?? What about all the companies in the want ads looking for help, this morning I heard there is a company in norwood that is looking for sales people, and bookeepers...Where are the jobs lost.....If therew are so many jobs lost then why do companies give into union demands when they could just hire all the jobless folk that you guys are talking bout


    Education is part of the reason we pay city and state taxes, the IRS was put into place for education due to the boom in families after the BIG WAR.... Simplify the tax code and do away with the IRS, I pay city taxes for schools, and state taxes for schools....Taxes on goods bought is the way to go

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  22. #47
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    The last debate

    I don't know what Sales jobs you are talking about.... but only 95,000 jobs were created last month was Bush's praise of the day.

    They don't tell you that 90,000 of them are below the poverty level pay!

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  23. #48
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    The last debate

    They don't tell you that 90,000 of them are below the poverty level pay!
    More of the same partisan BS. How about when talking of the unemployed, include the disclaimer that illegal aliens and able-bodied, welfare collecting people who choose not to work are included in that figure. Betcha didn't know that did ya? You see EVERYONE on the government entitlement dole is included in the unemployment figures.

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  24. #49
    Lifer
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    The last debate

    You are soooo wrong.

    The #s are based on claims for unemployment that are valid.

    If you are an illegal and were not paying unemployment taxes, you will get your claim rejected and will not be counted in the numbers.

    If you are on welfare, you have been taken off the unemployment list a LONG time ago. And by the way, you do realize there are very few people like us who qualify for welfare anyway, right? It is basically single women with kids, etc.. disabled people, etc.. who qualify. A healthy young man who can work will get rejected in most cases.

    Hell you even get removed from the unemployment figures once your benefits run out!

    The numbers are actually LOW.

    The main indicator that is useful information is the weekly change in new unemployment claims. The overall number is much more vague and is usually unrealistically low.

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  25. #50
    Member gixx6man's Avatar
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    Tax Cut

    If i am not mistaken, Bush's reason for the tax cut wasn't to help the economy. It didn't need it at that time. It was because the government had a huge surplus.

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