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educate me 401-k

  1. #301
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k


    OK, Roth IRA... I am having a slight bit of difficulty wading through certain terms ATM. Expense Ratio (typical vernacular) vs. Weathfront's "advisory fee" vs Fidelty's $7.95 commission vs. Fidelity's 0.001-0.003% assessment fee on sells vs. Vanguard's "very few" buy/sell fees of 0.25-1.0%. Are these the same thing? Different? Seems like Fidelity's commission is entirely unique, while Fidelity's fee is comparable in type to Vanguard's fee. Does "commission" mean every time I buy or sell (if so, that seems high compared to Vanguard's statement).

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  2. #302
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    I have a Fidelity Roth. You're charged a flat fee everytime you buy or sell something that isn't theirs.

    You pay that percentage when you sell only. I don't worry about that fee. The last time I sold something it was 46 cents.

    The trading fees seem cheaper to me at Fidelity than Vanguard. The 3xpense ratios of Van guard funds slay Fidelity though. Depends on what you want to hold in the account and how active you want to trade I guess.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 11-24-15 at 02:25 PM.
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  3. #303
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Yeah. I'm an (mostly index) fund guy. I look at expense ratios and little else.
    Tax impact is meaningless as this is an IRA. Trade at will.

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  4. #304
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Ah, OK - so "commission" or "buy/sell" fee is literally only related to assets other than that companies funds? That probably should've been apparently to me (and, I think, subconsciously was), but wasn't clicking today.

    Edit: Feck, I finally just found the link w/in Vanguard that confirms that

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    Last edited by Mustang; 11-24-15 at 02:48 PM.
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  5. #305
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    But maybe ETFs solve this. I see some of you cats are into ETFs. I'm not much of a trader and never really looked hard at ETFs. Can someone school me?
    Well. Sometimes I teach myself this stuff by jumping into the fire.

    Two large downsides to using ETFs that I've found already: the bid/offer spread, and the increased settlement time. (Google the terms, gobs of info out there.)
    The spread isn't so bad on most of the index stuff I'm dealing with. On the order of 0.02-0.05% of the face price. Just one more thing to remember when setting those limit orders.
    But the settlement time is driving me nuts. 3 business days with Vanguard. Patience is not my strongest virtue.

    Mutual fund moves are close at end of business and funds are ready to go the next day.

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  6. #306
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Language caution..


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  7. #307

    Re: educate me 401-k

    common knowledge, for any asshole in the world LOL

    how do we get to 2.5 million well before we're 65 tho??

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  8. #308
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Most of us would be happy to put away a fraction of that by the time we are 65. But it's nice to have goals.

    If you haven't seen the film that bit is pulled from, click here.
    I now want to see it just for Goodman's part.

    And that man has his head up his ass about owning a home. It's probably because he doesn't even know how to fix a fuckin' toilet.

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  9. #309
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    how did i miss this movie?

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  10. #310
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Most of us would be happy to put away a fraction of that by the time we are 65. But it's nice to have goals.
    Really? It doesn't seem that far-fetched. If a person started contributing the max 401k contribution of 1500/month at age 30 (when you should finally have your shit together and start pulling in a decent salary, hopefully), starting with a zero balance, no employer match and a conservative 6% return you'd have over 2M at age 65.

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  11. #311
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    I guess it's a matter of perspective. I find the idea of throwing $1500/mo into the retirement bucket a challenge as a fairly well paid single guy. Can't imagine doing that with kids or lesser pay or other obligations. 30 years old is also where most are popping out offspring, signing themselves up for huge mortgages and so on and so forth.

    I had an intelligent response citing sources that something like 4% of americans actually max out their retirement savings. If you buy that, then yes, it seems unlikely that the vast majority of americans will not have anything close to $2.5m in the bank @ 65.

    I argue thats actually okay.

    Let's play some hypotheticals. Let's say you have half that, $1.25m in the bank @ 65. You plan to live to 95, or 30 year draw down. Your house is paid for. We'll pretend social security has gone bust and you're on your own. 4% rule says you can draw down $50k/yr safely. Running it through a FIRE sim calculator suggests a $1.25m portfolio drawn down @ an inflation adjusted rate starting at $50k/yr would last 30 years 94.8% of the time, historically speaking.

    That works for me. As the song says, fifty thou a year'll buy a lot of beer.

    So yeah, my "fuck you" threshold for savings is way less than $2.5m. As with everything, YMMV.

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  12. #312

    Re: educate me 401-k

    oh it's real...the average saving rate of americans under 35 is -1.8%

    getting to the 2.5mil is tough...

    but several of my parents' friends have multiple assisted living facilities, hotels, fedex/kinko's, convenience stores, some own software companies, some are professionals like physicians and all of their net worth are at least in the 10 million range at retirement...so my Dad laughs at (what I consider a high reaching) 2.5 million retirement goal.

    so I'm kinda w' Sav looking outside the 401k scheme of things...seems like innovation and small business is the way to go (hard work is not enough!)...saving a w2 & real estate are just components of it

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 04-06-16 at 08:55 AM.
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  13. #313
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Wow. I guess I have it all wrong then. Shows what I know.

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  14. #314
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I guess it's a matter of perspective. I find the idea of throwing $1500/mo into the retirement bucket a challenge as a fairly well paid single guy. Can't imagine doing that with kids or lesser pay or other obligations. 30 years old is also where most are popping out offspring, signing themselves up for huge mortgages and so on and so forth.

    I had an intelligent response citing sources that something like 4% of americans actually max out their retirement savings. If you buy that, then yes, it seems unlikely that the vast majority of americans will not have anything close to $2.5m in the bank @ 65.

    I argue thats actually okay.

    Let's play some hypotheticals. Let's say you have half that, $1.25m in the bank @ 65. You plan to live to 95, or 30 year draw down. Your house is paid for. We'll pretend social security has gone bust and you're on your own. 4% rule says you can draw down $50k/yr safely. Running it through a FIRE sim calculator suggests a $1.25m portfolio drawn down @ an inflation adjusted rate starting at $50k/yr would last 30 years 94.8% of the time, historically speaking.

    That works for me. As the song says, fifty thou a year'll buy a lot of beer.

    So yeah, my "fuck you" threshold for savings is way less than $2.5m. As with everything, YMMV.
    Well there's not a right or wrong here, it's really about priorities, risk, etc and it's different for everyone. The fuck you threshold is pretty subjective - you're not telling too many people to fuck off with $50k a year in 2016, and certainly not 20 years from now.

    However, considering the average persons saving habits, 50k is not chump change and like you said, if everything else is paid off you're probably in a good position to enjoy the golden years (you know, arthritis, incontinence, Alzheimer's...kidding, sort of).

    I don't think the 2.5M is unrealistic to achieve, but I do agree it's difficult given our societies addiction to immediate gratification.

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  15. #315

    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Wow. I guess I have it all wrong then. Shows what I know.
    didn't mean it that way

    there is no right or wrong...it's w/e you wanna do

    talking big is just my harbored resentment to the "you're a failure" speech from my Dad that I *still* receive as a professional adult

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 04-06-16 at 09:29 AM.
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  16. #316
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    $1500 a month is a lot even with a match. I do around $1300 a month and I don't see myself getting anywhere close to $2.5mil by the time my wrinkled old skin flap of a dick is ready to retire. I'd be lucky to make it to half that.

    If you were one of the lucky few to graduate right after the tech bubble (shit paying entry level jobs with big college debt), and managed to listen to everyone and buy a house at the peak of the housing bubble, then you will never see that magic $2mil number, unless you live like a brokedick and commute 2 hours each way to your Boston/NYC job.

    If you make 6 figures, sure. But even then, "lifestyle inflation" is the biggest culprit of lack of savings. Get a raise, raise your standard of living.


    I'm starting to see a bunch of my friends and relatives my age moving into bigger/nicer houses. Sorry, but I just can't see the justification to spending half a million dollars to live in a town like Hudson in a 2k square foot new house with a postage stamp yard/lot. Just doesn't make sense......

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 04-06-16 at 10:34 AM.
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  17. #317

    Re: educate me 401-k

    anyone with any input on life insurance policies?

    I have one through work...depending on how many times of your salary you want paid out to beneficiaries, you pay a relatively small premium ($20-$60ish IIRC) per pay period to get a pay out to others if you die

    I met with a financial advisor that was a previous manager at a site I worked at, and he was pushing life insurance...like $500/month I always thought it was a scam? But he has it setup for his kid - basically you contribute a certain amount for x amount of years, then you can borrow against your death benefit tax-free for many years and just decrease how much of a pay out goes to your beneficiaries

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  18. #318
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    $1500 a month is a lot even with a match. I do around $1300 a month and I don't see myself getting anywhere close to $2.5mil by the time my wrinkled old skin flap of a dick is ready to retire. I'd be lucky to make it to half that.

    If you were one of the lucky few to graduate right after the tech bubble (shit paying entry level jobs with big college debt), and managed to listen to everyone and buy a house at the peak of the housing bubble, then you will never see that magic $2mil number, unless you live like a brokedick and commute 2 hours each way to your Boston/NYC job.

    If you make 6 figures, sure. But even then, "lifestyle inflation" is the biggest culprit of lack of savings. Get a raise, raise your standard of living.


    I'm starting to see a bunch of my friends and relatives my age moving into bigger/nicer houses. Sorry, but I just can't see the justification to spending half a million dollars to live in a town like Hudson in a 2k square foot new house with a postage stamp yard/lot. Just doesn't make sense......
    Agreed, and it's painful to put that 18k per year in at first, but like anything else, you adjust. And you're sheltering income (an HSA is good for this too, especially with kids going to the doctor/ orthodontist...)It's priorities. I have a mortgage, one kid starting college and one going into high school. The trick is to live within your means to the best extent you can. I didn't buy more house than I need, have a ten year old bike, etc. Dont buy shit on credit cards. Learn to cook, and you eat better at home than almost any restaurant for a fraction of the cost. I don't deal well with having debt (part of that 'fuck you' mentality I guess) so a mortgage and 2 leased vehicles is all I'm willing to entend myself on.

    I really should vote for Bernie and his 'free' college plan because I'm about to get ass raped!

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  19. #319
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Watch this. Laugh a little. Cry a little.


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  20. #320
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    First thing I thought of yesterday when I watched that was "Bubs told me all this shit last year. Nice job, Bubs!"

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  21. #321
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    anyone with any input on life insurance policies?

    I have one through work...depending on how many times of your salary you want paid out to beneficiaries, you pay a relatively small premium ($20-$60ish IIRC) per pay period to get a pay out to others if you die

    I met with a financial advisor that was a previous manager at a site I worked at, and he was pushing life insurance...like $500/month I always thought it was a scam? But he has it setup for his kid - basically you contribute a certain amount for x amount of years, then you can borrow against your death benefit tax-free for many years and just decrease how much of a pay out goes to your beneficiaries
    Ask if he is a "fiduciary". If he says no, run away.

    The video above explains why.

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  22. #322
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    And the internetz told me it 3 years ago. Nice job internetz. Not just for cat videos and porn anymore!

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  23. #323
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Yeah, I guess it has been longer than that since you went on your financial factoid rampage.

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  24. #324
    Just Registered rolker's Avatar
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    Re: educate me 401-k

    Congrats Bubs!

    educate me 401-k-finance_certificate_bubba-jpg

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  25. #325

    Re: educate me 401-k

    Just texted him to ask!!

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