GM's 3.0L diesel

[ducatirdr]

The issue with these USA diesels is the reliance on complex systems to apply DEF. They will not run or not well aka go into limp mode if these systems are compromised. That's a lot of electronic jibbery to worry about. That has been the bane of maintaining these type of vehicles long term. Complex systems break and then it's back to the dealer to diagnose what solenoid needs to be replaced.

First question to ask. When the DEF system fails how does the vehicle behave? The default answer is they don't run.

[number9]

decent oil

Don't you fucking dare

[jhawley]

So would this finally be a as designed use for Rotella T6?

[e30addict]

So would this finally be a as designed use for Rotella T6?

Does Rotella meet DexosD and would any quality CK4 oil be good enough

Rotellais heavier then spec

[Garandman]

New diesels scare the hell out of me. I really want to like this one, but some of the tech is "concerning" and this one really doesn't have many miles racked up by people yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFNsg7bCtdA&t=590s

We had two Cruze diesels and had a lot of problems with emissions controls. That system is warranted to 100K by federal law. Later generation Sprinter owners are reporting $3,500 emissions system repairs (or deletes, which may come back to haunt them).

So after the 2015 experience smog controlled diesels are a hard no for me. I’m a diesel fan and our 2006 Sprinter is awesome. Hope they’ve improved the new ones and I’d look at an extended emissions warranty if available.

[jeantarrou]

The issue with these USA diesels is the reliance on complex systems to apply DEF. They will not run or not well aka go into limp mode if these systems are compromised. That's a lot of electronic jibbery to worry about. That has been the bane of maintaining these type of vehicles long term. Complex systems break and then it's back to the dealer to diagnose what solenoid needs to be replaced.

First question to ask. When the DEF system fails how does the vehicle behave? The default answer is they don't run.

What you're saying here is completely accurate and appears to be the primary "risk factor".

[db79]

We had two Cruze diesels and had a lot of problems with emissions controls. That system is warranted to 100K by federal law. Later generation Sprinter owners are reporting $3,500 emissions system repairs (or deletes, which may come back to haunt them).

So after the 2015 experience smog controlled diesels are a hard no for me. I’m a diesel fan and our 2006 Sprinter is awesome. Hope they’ve improved the new ones and I’d look at an extended emissions warranty if available.

After two cracked DPFs and a HPFP that was starting to get loud I called it quits with the VW TDI. Newer models may not be as problematic with the DPF but the complexity with DEF has now been added.

[nhbubba]

The issue with these USA diesels is the reliance on complex systems to apply DEF.

What is the solution used in Europe or RoW?
My understanding is that the emissions requirements are even more strict in Europe.
My friend has what I think is a 2000's era diesel VW in Germany that he isn't allowed to drive in the city anymore at all.

[number9]

What is the solution used in Europe or RoW?
My understanding is that the emissions requirements are even more strict in Europe.
My friend has what I think is a 2000's era diesel VW in Germany that he isn't allowed to drive in the city anymore at all.

They're certainly just as strict in Australia, which is why delete tunes are so popular.

[ducatirdr]

Yes the new EU regulations are now as tough as here. I guess they are now doing DEF as well.

[Punjistick]

I like diesels but I'm not sure I'd buy another one again unless I could do a delete that somehow passed MA inspections once the warranty ran out. I had some issue with a sensor in a DEF tank and dealer wanted $4,000, luckily it was covered under warranty. A few years later I had a cracked EGR valve and it went into limp mode. $2,000 not covered by warranty. I only have 67k miles...but my car is 9 years old.

[e30addict]

I like diesels but I'm not sure I'd buy another one again unless I could do a delete that somehow passed MA inspections once the warranty ran out. I had some issue with a sensor in a DEF tank and dealer wanted $4,000, luckily it was covered under warranty. A few years later I had a cracked EGR valve and it went into limp mode. $2,000 not covered by warranty. I only have 67k miles...but my car is 9 years old.

I completely forgot about the inspection issue! I take it they can flag if the stuffs been deleted through OBD2

[boosten lebaron]

I have a 2008 diesel ford focus in europe. It gets good mileage but thats it. If i cross into london its like a $25 fine as im not supposed to bring any diesels older than 2015 in. I cant drive the car into big cities like Paris or Vienna. Actually i can but i have to pay a big fine even if im just cutting through them on the highway. France in particular has a lot of places i cant take a modern diesel to with paying some sort of fine or levy. I do however get 70mpg just about every trip and with the tuner chip on it the car rips. Seriously quick.
Diesels here are crazy cheap to buy because they are so labour intensive to keep going. Dpf will kill most of them but things like injector seals and fuel filters add up quickly too. Limp mode via dpf is ultra common, its not a question of if but when.
The only tip i can give thats known here is do not buy a diesel with a dpf if your doing lots of short trips. They literally cant work on short trips and thats a big killer of systems. It cant heat up properly so it gets clogged then limp mode at best. Newer fords here will actually tell you on the dash that the computer will disable the car entirely in x miles unless you repair the system. It usually gives you a hundred miles or so before you cant drive it anymore at all. Wont even start until it gets towed back to ford.

Its funny because diesels are being abandoned here now after being the majority for decades and the us is getting more into them.

[e30addict]

Its funny because diesels are being abandoned here now after being the majority for decades and the us is getting more into them.

It's sad. We always chased horsepower when we really wanted torque. We missed out on a lot of cool motors over the years. The 80s diesels really screwed things up in the US.

[jimmycapp]

I always enjoyed the diesel manual cars I’ve had for rentals in Europe over the years. Vw, vauxhall, fiat, etc. all basic cars but much better than any eco gas car we have over here.

[maxim_X]

It's sad. We always chased horsepower when we really wanted torque. We missed out on a lot of cool motors over the years. The 80s diesels really screwed things up in the US.

I notice a lot of talk about torque in the diesel circles. It seems like the measurement is misunderstood. People brag about 1050 torque in the powerstroke, but the RPM where it's available is never going to be used if you have an automatic. The car/ truck is going to downshift if you pin it at 1200 RPM so the driver will never use that TQ number. It's silly because horsepower is the number that accelerates a vehicle, and tq is just the rpm that the HP is at. What I'm saying is that TQ seems like a marketing number and less of something that actually matters.

[ZX-12R]

People brag about 1050 torque in the powerstroke, but the RPM where it's available is never going to be used if you have an automatic. The car/ truck is going to downshift if you pin it at 1200 RPM so the driver will never use that TQ number.

People brag about diesel torque because the number is usually significantly higher than their (relatively) modest horsepower due to the low engine speeds at which they operate.

It's silly because horsepower is the number that accelerates a vehicle, and tq is just the rpm that the HP is at.

You can't write off torque like that. Torque is a force and is the only thing that can accelerate a vehicle. Horsepower is a measurement of power which is work (force * displacement) over time and better illustrates the amount of potential torque that's available at the wheels after running through a transmission and the rest of the drive train. Diesels run slowly therefore they need large amounts of torque to do work in a reasonable amount of time.

[e30addict]

I notice a lot of talk about torque in the diesel circles. It seems like the measurement is misunderstood. People brag about 1050 torque in the powerstroke, but the RPM where it's available is never going to be used if you have an automatic. The car/ truck is going to downshift if you pin it at 1200 RPM so the driver will never use that TQ number. It's silly because horsepower is the number that accelerates a vehicle, and tq is just the rpm that the HP is at. What I'm saying is that TQ seems like a marketing number and less of something that actually matters.

People chase marketing, yes. People also love to brag their vehicle has the highest. That doesn't change the fact motors with lots of low end are fun to drive and hp only comes into play when we hit the race track and want max performance all the time..

Go drive similar horsepower cars with gas and diesel engines and tell me you can't tell the difference and that you'd rather daily drive the diesel.

Actually, the truck in this thread is a decent comparison too. The 5.3 is more powerful by almost 100hp and has less torque then the Dmax by about the same amount.

Hook up a 5k pound trailer behind the two and tell me which was a better driving truck to tow with. The more powerful 5.3 or the torquier 3.0?

If you watch the TFL truck videos the big gas motors do really well and the baby diesels are usually slower to the top in that drag race scenario. Outside of bragging rights for video purposes I'd bet those guys would still pick the "slower" truck to actually tow with regularly.

[jhawley]

I've been watching TFl's stuff for like 10 years now. hands down i think they do some of the best truck testing vids.

[e30addict]

I've been watching TFl's stuff for like 10 years now. hands down i think they do some of the best truck testing vids.

They're oddly satisfying to watch. Really torture those trucks and show worst case scenario, especially for us flatlanders.

[tls25rs]

I like relatively low RPM torque for drivability reasons.

My old Subaru 2.5RS had modest horsepower, pretty decent torque for a small motor and not so great fuel economy, matched up with the gear ratios of the transmission it was fun to drive on back roads due to the ability to leave it in a single gear and depend on the torque to pull the vehicle out of corners and up small inclines etc. My newer Subaru Impreza Sport has a smaller displacement, higher revving, higher horsepower and more fuel economical motor. It sucks to drive for the most part. Below 3500 RPM the power and torque are weak at best. We're talking plain, unflavored, cold oatmeal here. If there is a relatively minor incline on the road there is a need to downshift to be able to climb it. Rev the engine to above 3500 and there is power and therefore better acceleration however the motor sounds like it is going to grenade at any moment.

I much prefer the ability to lug a vehicle around at lower RPM and get decent performance then to have to rev the bag out of the motor in order for it to perform. It can be likened to a nice casual quick run down a backroad vs. trying to get down the back road at the highest possible speed. One is comfortable and fun and the other has you on the edge of your seat and the heart rate through the roof.

High RPM operation of a vehicle also makes a ton of noise and draws attention of the wrong type from the guys/gals with the blue lights on the roof.

Don't get me wrong, my old CRX was a hoot to drive. Rev it to 8,000 RPM every shift and still get 30MPG. Fun but far more hectic for lack of a better term.

[Stoneman]

A friend has the 2.8 in his extra fancy Canyon/Colorado and has absolutely loved the thing in the year + that he's had it. He drives from Alton, NH to Hudson, NH and back five days a week, and uses it to get to & from job sites as well. I can't remember the miles he's already racked up, but he puts me to shame. He came from years of driving 3/4 tons & bigger diesels, and is hooked on that little chug. He claims when it comes time to trade, he'll be a repeat. He usually updates 'em every 3 years or so due to mileage. He says he hasn't had a single issue yet. And the MPG is amazing.

Can't smell a damn thing when it's idling and can't even hardly tell it's even running when you're standing next to it.

[jhawley]

I really would like a colorado diesel, but with a sub 3 mile commute, that will probably kill the engine, and ill freeze my ass off to and from work.

[RandyO]

New diesels scare the hell out of me.

before you make statements like that, find an old Chevy Chevette with a 1.8 diesel, my dad had one as a company car for about 3 months, freekin thing was dangerous, 0-60 in 20 seconds (if you didn't have the AC on) turn the AC on, fer get it, I don't think it could do 60, Ther powers that be, traded in for a Chevelle with a 350 v8

[e30addict]

before you make statements like that, find an old Chevy Chevette with a 1.8 diesel, my dad had one as a company car for about 3 months, freekin thing was dangerous, 0-60 in 20 seconds (if you didn't have the AC on) turn the AC on, fer get it, I don't think it could do 60, Ther powers that be, traded in for a Chevelle with a 350 v8

To be fair, the gas powered Chevettes weren't much different.