Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 49 of 49

No grid girls

  1. #26
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Waterboro ME
    Age
    43
    Posts
    12,958

    Re: No grid girls


    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    You haven't, because it is obvious. But it relies on the same false logic as the first one.
    So, playing Devil's Advocate:

    Generally speaking, you are correct, Cancer research doesn't take away from AIDS research. There is an argument that there is ultimately a finite amount of resources in both researcher time and money buuuuuuuut... I don't think we're at the point where choosing which bracelet/ribbon to wear is actually having an impact on that.

    On BLM vs Blue, the argument is directly about the balance between the two. BLM argues that police value their lives too little and therefore are too quick to shoot and should take on more risk by holding back, police argue that they're acting in self defense and any changes to procedure increases their likelihood of harm or death so... I'm not as quick to put that in the same logical fallacy bin as the other.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    771 Racing -=- FaceBook
    Mistake - 1992 WR250ZD / 2000 LS650P / 2019 KTM 150SX / 2016 KTM 250XC

  2. #27
    Lifer Tekime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Falmouth, ME
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,335

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Cool. How do you feel about F1 bringing their product to Bahrain? Azerbaijan? Abu Dhabi? Not exactly countries leading the way in womens'/human rights.

    Ditching the grid girls was a pathetic PC move. Nothing more.
    Fair enough point. I don't know a thing about F1 or why they made this move at all. But change often happens with a series of small steps. Pulling product out of entire countries could very well cripple the brand, would almost certainly have no effect on these countries, and F1 certainly wouldn't be making any statements if it was insolvent. But if they bring their product into Bahrain and send a message by not parading girls around, well maybe that will have an effect. A pathetic PC move to me is telling college professors they can't discuss certain issues openly and honestly because sensitivity... or telling me I have to call you "zee" or some shit because you're on the gender "spectrum"... not adjusting a public "all-ages" sport that is clearly objectifying women (even to this minor degree).

    That said I do not feel that strongly either way about the grid girls honestly... but I'm not bent out of shape over one organization making a single move to create a more inclusive environment. But motorsports are unattractive and offputting to a lot of women. I didn't put much thought into it until last summer when I bought my wife and daughter t-shirts at Rave X in Portland. One was too big so my girls went back there to exchange it without me, and had a terribly uncomfortable experience. Not only the half naked girls on posters and t shirts everywhere, but they were followed around the store the entire time with the guy being uncomfortably close and inappropriate. They will never set foot in there again and left with a pretty clear idea of what the scene is about. And I'm not picking on Rave X but when I walk in there it's "fuck's up buddy" not "helllloooo ladies can I help you by staring at your ass the entire time with your 9 year old daughter present?". That's the typical female experience in this scene. Suffice to say when a nine-year-old feels creeped out and out of place maybe there's something to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMMYDUCK View Post
    Glad to see Yamaha hasn't throw in the towel yet ........
    Women's rights!!!

    *shows us boobies"

    What were we talking about again?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    05GSXR75005SV65090DR350

  3. #28
    Lifer Tekime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Falmouth, ME
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,335

    Re: No grid girls

    In case you weren't familiar with the Rave X marketing strategy. I believe this girl is an elementary school teacher

    (for science)


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    05GSXR75005SV65090DR350

  4. #29
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The desert
    Posts
    2,241

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Tekime View Post
    Fair enough point. I don't know a thing about F1 or why they made this move at all. But change often happens with a series of small steps. Pulling product out of entire countries could very well cripple the brand, would almost certainly have no effect on these countries, and F1 certainly wouldn't be making any statements if it was insolvent. But if they bring their product into Bahrain and send a message by not parading girls around, well maybe that will have an effect. A pathetic PC move to me is telling college professors they can't discuss certain issues openly and honestly because sensitivity... or telling me I have to call you "zee" or some shit because you're on the gender "spectrum"... not adjusting a public "all-ages" sport that is clearly objectifying women (even to this minor degree).

    That said I do not feel that strongly either way about the grid girls honestly... but I'm not bent out of shape over one organization making a single move to create a more inclusive environment. But motorsports are unattractive and offputting to a lot of women. I didn't put much thought into it until last summer when I bought my wife and daughter t-shirts at Rave X in Portland. One was too big so my girls went back there to exchange it without me, and had a terribly uncomfortable experience. Not only the half naked girls on posters and t shirts everywhere, but they were followed around the store the entire time with the guy being uncomfortably close and inappropriate. They will never set foot in there again and left with a pretty clear idea of what the scene is about. And I'm not picking on Rave X but when I walk in there it's "fuck's up buddy" not "helllloooo ladies can I help you by staring at your ass the entire time with your 9 year old daughter present?". That's the typical female experience in this scene. Suffice to say when a nine-year-old feels creeped out and out of place maybe there's something to it.



    Women's rights!!!

    *shows us boobies"

    What were we talking about again?

    Well I can understand that, Rave X is a fucking dump staffed by ignorant shitheads. I'd be pissed about that too. But, it's not representative of motorsports in general. I've taken my wife to many events from local MX and drag racing to MotoGP. She has never once been uncomfortable nor did I ever have the urge to smack someone for being ignorant to her or any other woman in attendance. (She didn't even object to the Rizla 'Police' girls who were hotter than the sun, they are a beautiful part of the spectacle that is MotoGP) Oddly enough, same experience at Nascar. This is a feel good bullshit move by F1, which I never thought could suck more than it already did.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by gixxer72; 02-02-18 at 11:04 AM.

  5. #30
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The desert
    Posts
    2,241

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Ok, so we've established you don't understand logical fallacies.
    Ugh. F1 says no more grid girls in support of women's rights. F1 has no problem peddling their product to countries with fucking serious women's rights problems.

    That's not a fallacy. It's blatant hypocrisy.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #31
    Senior Member jerseygirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    448

    Re: No grid girls

    Ohhh I love when men debate this kind of stuff. It is funny to me. There are so many ways you can look at it. So here are my thoughts as a woman who has been around motorcycles and racing longer than some of you (over 38 years)....

    Does doing away with grid girls really hurt their ratings? Or attendance at events? They are an add on. Do young women or women my age get uncomfortable or self conscious around those women....some do! The world is changing right now and women are having more of a voice. Actually if you look into it more carefully, women influence buying in the household more in the US, but no one talks about that. And the marketing doesn't really speak to it. Yeah that skinny ass girl telling us about her lovely tampon while frolicking in the ocean is about 1% of actual women. Go back to the thread about women and the industry. Shrink it and pink it baby.

    Get on board boys. This stuff is the tip of the iceberg. Shit is going to change. And although I am not a total feminist, I think it is WAY past due and my generation is going to only increase this charge.

    Stepping off my soapbox...

    4 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    You can take the girl outta Jersey.....

    USCRA #75
    Street- 03 Suzuki SV650
    Track- 71 Honda CB350

  7. #32
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dublin, NH
    Age
    37
    Posts
    5,138

    Re: No grid girls

    I thought this was all about getting more sponsors on the camera. Do any of you really believe that F1 did this primarily for PC reasons and not for money?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2015 KTM 1290 Super Adventure
    2017 Honda CRF250L Rally

  8. #33
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,618

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    So, playing Devil's Advocate:

    Generally speaking, you are correct, Cancer research doesn't take away from AIDS research. There is an argument that there is ultimately a finite amount of resources in both researcher time and money buuuuuuuut... I don't think we're at the point where choosing which bracelet/ribbon to wear is actually having an impact on that.

    On BLM vs Blue, the argument is directly about the balance between the two. BLM argues that police value their lives too little and therefore are too quick to shoot and should take on more risk by holding back, police argue that they're acting in self defense and any changes to procedure increases their likelihood of harm or death so... I'm not as quick to put that in the same logical fallacy bin as the other.

    Not so fast.

    You chose to be a police officer. You are paid to do so. It is a voluntary gig.

    Not so much with being black.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  9. #34
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Waterboro ME
    Age
    43
    Posts
    12,958

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Not so fast.

    You chose to be a police officer. You are paid to do so. It is a voluntary gig.

    Not so much with being black.
    Fair counter point.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    771 Racing -=- FaceBook
    Mistake - 1992 WR250ZD / 2000 LS650P / 2019 KTM 150SX / 2016 KTM 250XC

  10. #35
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rehoboth MA
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,681

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    I've taken my wife to many events from local MX and drag racing to MotoGP. She has never once been uncomfortable nor did I ever have the urge to smack someone for being ignorant to her or any other woman in attendance.
    There's the trifecta! This one is called a "hasty generalization."

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  11. #36
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The desert
    Posts
    2,241

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    There's the trifecta! This one is called a "hasty generalization."
    Nope. It's called an observation based on life experience. You suck at trolling.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #37
    Still salty StrayNut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    NW Boston burbs
    Posts
    351

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Maybe more women will want to get involved in motorsports if they don't have to feel as objectified.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekime View Post
    I'm fine with this because I want more young girls who watch these races to see more than men on bikes, women in bikinis. Gee dad what are my options in life.
    Man I gotta say, to see people saying this and ďlikingĒ it on a mostly-guy forum, where itís obviously not just to make the women in your lives feel comfortable but because you honestly understand, means more to me than you know. Iíll admit that I expected to open this thread and see most people either up in arms about it or just brushing it off as stupid. I mean, is it the biggest deal compared to other examples of real oppression going on in the world? Of course not. But I still appreciate baby steps.

    I donít even have a problem with grid girls specifically, because as someone said itís (as far as we know) completely voluntary on their parts. But I ain't cryin about losing one more message out there that men do the important stuff while women are interchangeable decorations.

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Cool. How do you feel about F1 bringing their product to Bahrain? Azerbaijan? Abu Dhabi? Not exactly countries leading the way in womens'/human rights.
    I actually agree with you that itís hypocritical, but I donít think itís an illogical path to take. Itís like dealing with human rights abuses anywhere. Like with China, we donít refuse to do any trade, period, until they adopt all of our human rights policies. We try to influence them through diplomacy as much as we can, and itís argued (arguable) that we can do more good through engaging them than through confrontation or ignoring. But at the same time weíre completely free to demand certain human rights in our own country. Iím OK with F1 cleaning their own house but not trying to change the world yet.

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #38
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    the humbling river
    Posts
    12,638

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Maybe more women will want to get involved in motorsports if they don't have to feel as objectified.
    And then there's the choice to not consider employment that is clearly in place for the sole purpose of objectifying them....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #39
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dublin, NH
    Age
    37
    Posts
    5,138

    Re: No grid girls

    It seems to me that if you ask yourself "why were they there in the first place?", the only answer I can come up with is "to attract more men to the sport", which, if true, is pretty sexist to begin with.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2015 KTM 1290 Super Adventure
    2017 Honda CRF250L Rally

  15. #40
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    the humbling river
    Posts
    12,638

    Re: No grid girls

    Fair point and while we're at it, let's have Hooters close their doors and ask the NFL to remove the cheerleader staff. I mean, if sexism is the core of the conversation, the topic goes way beyond F1 or sports in general.


    My take on all this is, if more men were doing what (historically) has been represented or dominated by women, I'm all for it. It'd be amazing to see men participating as grid guys or Hooters dudes. Problem is, the time has not come for this change to take place. Men are still about bravado. The act of breaking that comfort zone in any meaningful way is still a long ways off, IMO. Heck, I'd take a grid guy job right now just to be around the cars and bikes! Put me in a Monster Energy Drink mankini, hand me an umbrella and tell me the grid number!!

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  16. #41
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Eastern Ct
    Posts
    3,243

    Re: No grid girls

    PC is nihilism

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  17. #42
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,618

    Re: No grid girls

    If it was in the best business practice for Hooters to get rid of the scantily clad waitresses, then they sure would.

    It's like when they went from decent homemade blue cheese dressing and carrots/celery included with all the wings to garbage single serving packages of crap "blue cheese" dressing and charging for celery/carrots. Made sense to them for business reasons. They knew that people went for the tits and the shitty wings, nothing else.

    If F1 considers they are potentially alienating over 50% of the worlds population by continuing to favor towards male chauvinism, then it makes perfect sense.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  18. #43
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,413

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Not so fast.

    You chose to be a police officer. You are paid to do so. It is a voluntary gig.

    Not so much with being black.
    Counter point..... you chose to be a criminal and do stupid shit that gets you in front of that cop with a gun as well.

    Plenty of "white trash" gets shot by the cops too, it just doesn't make the news as much or for as long and hit the racial hot button....

    I don't know the race of the guy shot by Reading PD last night, but my money is on a white guy.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  19. #44

    Re: No grid girls

    Yeah, thought about it a little... there's a time and place for it. My gut reaction was "wtf" and "where is this world going? Just make all women wear hijabs" and "just show the damn boobs I enjoy em"

    But no grid girls isn't going to change the racing or $$ going into it from viewership. JG is right...change is coming. I still think feminism is a bit misguided...too many women want different things so it's hard to generalize...but even that being said, there are certain things that in this day in age aren't necessary

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by breakdirt916; 02-04-18 at 12:28 PM.
    FREE $10 UBER CREDIT W' PROMO CODE --> PON41
    1994 Yamaha YZ250 CA Street Legal 2-smoke :smoke: ** 2017 KTM 690 Enduro R**

  20. #45
    Cat herder
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Low Earth orbit
    Posts
    233

    Re: No grid girls

    It is indeed hard to generalize. Seeing a lot of outrage from the grid girls themselves, who actually like what they do and are going to lose yet another opportunity. Meanwhile, others are going on about objectification. Both have a point, they're just coming from different places.

    Here's a simple litmus test. If you think that it would be stupid to put male models in those jobs, then you have your answer. It's just as stupid to put women there. The job itself is idiotic.

    Personally I think that eye candy which serves no useful purpose is pointless. I got one word for you: Kardashian.

    Back in the day when we weren't constantly bombarded by sexual imagery, maybe it was part of the fan appeal. But today... c'mon. You can pick up your phone and find a thousand images of hot women in three seconds. Why ogle the grid girls? And if they're not there to be looked at, then why exactly are they there?

    Same with cheerleaders. Nobody's paying any attention to them anyway, aside from the random quick shot before they go to commercial. The Hooters example is off base... White trash males go to Hooters for the girls and put up with the crap food because boobies and Daisy Dukes. Who goes to a race or a football game to look at the girls? Precisely no one, that's who.

    I note that baseball has gotten along just fine without eye candy for a very long time. Is that PC? Or is it that there's just no point?

    At least in MotoGP they have an actual job to do: keep the rider cool on the grid by holding the umbrella. But I'd love it if they gave that job to little kids instead, the way baseball and tennis use kids to chase down balls. How awesome would it be for a kid to get that close to a real racer? Talk about creating fans for life.....

    One positive move if it happens would be to eliminate what has got to be the crappiest gig in the world: The Monster Energy girls who stand on either side of the starting gate at the IOM TT. That job literally consists of standing still in four-inch heels and smiling while dozens of unmuffled race bikes launch themselves within three feet of you. I really, really feel sorry for those women.

    You're not going to get women interested in motorsports by getting rid of grid girls. Male domination isn't why they don't follow it. It's more about culture and gender stereotypes. My wife, for example, just doesn't understand why I like racing. Does not compute for her; it isn't about the grid girls at all. Guys like loud dangerous stuff that goes fast. Always have, always will, largely because of upbringing and testosterone. Historically women are less into that stuff, but I see it changing more and more. I see a fair number of female riders at track days; still in the minority to be sure, but they're there and a lot of 'em are darned quick. I don't think it'll ever truly reflect the population, just as you're not going to see a lot of men in historically female-dominated jobs.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by adouglas; 02-04-18 at 01:19 PM.

  21. #46
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Pomfret Center, CT
    Age
    30
    Posts
    11,337

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
    It is indeed hard to generalize. Seeing a lot of outrage from the grid girls themselves, who actually like what they do and are going to lose yet another opportunity. Meanwhile, others are going on about objectification. Both have a point, they're just coming from different places.

    Here's a simple litmus test. If you think that it would be stupid to put male models in those jobs, then you have your answer. It's just as stupid to put women there. The job itself is idiotic.

    Personally I think that eye candy which serves no useful purpose is pointless. I got one word for you: Kardashian.

    Back in the day when we weren't constantly bombarded by sexual imagery, maybe it was part of the fan appeal. But today... c'mon. You can pick up your phone and find a thousand images of hot women in three seconds. Why ogle the grid girls? And if they're not there to be looked at, then why exactly are they there?

    Same with cheerleaders. Nobody's paying any attention to them anyway, aside from the random quick shot before they go to commercial. The Hooters example is off base... White trash males go to Hooters for the girls and put up with the crap food because boobies and Daisy Dukes. Who goes to a race or a football game to look at the girls? Precisely no one, that's who.

    I note that baseball has gotten along just fine without eye candy for a very long time. Is that PC? Or is it that there's just no point?

    At least in MotoGP they have an actual job to do: keep the rider cool on the grid by holding the umbrella. But I'd love it if they gave that job to little kids instead, the way baseball and tennis use kids to chase down balls. How awesome would it be for a kid to get that close to a real racer? Talk about creating fans for life.....

    One positive move if it happens would be to eliminate what has got to be the crappiest gig in the world: The Monster Energy girls who stand on either side of the starting gate at the IOM TT. That job literally consists of standing still in four-inch heels and smiling while dozens of unmuffled race bikes launch themselves within three feet of you. I really, really feel sorry for those women.

    You're not going to get women interested in motorsports by getting rid of grid girls. Male domination isn't why they don't follow it. It's more about culture and gender stereotypes. My wife, for example, just doesn't understand why I like racing. Does not compute for her; it isn't about the grid girls at all. Guys like loud dangerous stuff that goes fast. Always have, always will, largely because of upbringing and testosterone. Historically women are less into that stuff, but I see it changing more and more. I see a fair number of female riders at track days; still in the minority to be sure, but they're there and a lot of 'em are darned quick. I don't think it'll ever truly reflect the population, just as you're not going to see a lot of men in historically female-dominated jobs.
    Who the fuck looks at pictures of girls online? They have these motion picture thingies now.

    Baseball isn't a sport. Not a valid comparison.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Christian LRRS/CCS HasBeen ECK Racing
    2011 Pit Bike Race CHAMPION!

  22. #47

    Re: No grid girls

    Define a sport Christian

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  23. #48
    Cat herder
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Low Earth orbit
    Posts
    233

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  24. #49
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Pomfret Center, CT
    Age
    30
    Posts
    11,337

    Re: No grid girls

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Define a sport Christian
    Something where the majority of the time the athletes aren't standing still or sitting down on a stationary object would be a good starting point.

    The most action all game is when all the players run out onto the field and run back each inning.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Christian LRRS/CCS HasBeen ECK Racing
    2011 Pit Bike Race CHAMPION!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •