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High Hopes

  1. #1
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    High Hopes
    By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
    Thursday, Sep 30, 2004

    Let's face it, no matter who you vote for a few weeks from now, you are doing it on hope. President Bush firmly believes democracy will prevail in Iraq--lots of hoping going on in that analysis. John Kerry wants us to believe that he can persuade allies like France and Germany to help stabilize Iraq. For that to be even remotely possible, the Senator will have to speak softly and carry a big checkbook, because turning that kind of hope into reality is likely to cost plenty.
    The sad truth is that many countries dislike America, and it has little to do with the USA's proactive policy in fighting perceived terror threats. The acrimony is caused by severe differences in philosophy and priorities.

    First, there's the economy; it is steadily growing in the USA, but essentially flat in the European Union. The reason is that Americans work longer hours and have fewer work restrictions. Europe is deeply into entitlements, and those extend into the marketplace. If you don't want to work in Scandinavia, for example, the government will support you. And even if you do work, taxes are so high in many European countries that after a while, wage earning isn't worth it. So many ambitious and creative people simply hit the sauna, limiting their accomplishments.

    And then there's the secularist philosophy. In the Netherlands they have legalized euthanasia even for children. If you want drugs, you will find them sold openly in Amsterdam. After you score, you can walk on over to the red light district and have sex with a government-approved prostitute. Then you might want to use your drugs in a public coffee shop. No problem. Going Dutch no longer means splitting the check, now it means party hardy.

    In Spain, the new socialist prime minister mocks the Catholic Church and surrenders to Al Qaeda. Across the border in France, Jacques Chirac refuses to provide help needed to safeguard elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. In Russia, Putin shuts down the press and incarcerates potential rivals. And John Kerry's going to rally these guys to our cause?

    Canada has gradually turned into a secular paradise with socialized medicine, an increasing acceptance of drug use and trafficking, and a bitterly anti-American press. Mexico remains poor and corrupt, and then blames its neighbor to the north for the chaos. That's hilarious when you consider that the U.S. government allows millions of Mexican citizens to live and work here, many of them illegally. In fact, money sent home by Mexican workers accounts for that country's second largest industry after oil.

    The truth is that the USA is disliked by many countries because of our Judeo-Christian traditions, as well as our economic and military power. This charade that Chirac and Gerhard Schroeder simply disagree with us about Iraq is nonsense. These men play to their left-wing base and to the anti-American media. In fact, they are both in office because of their anti-Americanism. The German and French economies are a mess. These guys mask that by criticizing the barbarians in the USA.

    So good luck, John Kerry, in finding common ground with foreign politicians who personally benefit from giving the USA a hard time. The envy and shortsightedness that is gripping the world is Al Qaeda's best friend. The USA has unquestionably made mistakes in Iraq, but consider this: if the entire world was united against terrorists and brutal dictators, they could not exist. But the world is not. And all the hope on earth won't change that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
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  2. #2
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    And what exactly do I have to HOPE for with a Bush second term?

    More war on more countries, more middle class wage losses (for the sake of profits), more tax cuts when we are running large defecits?

    'Joy'

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  3. #3
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    At least Bush will not ask to pass the "World Test". Love him or hate him, G.W. just makes more sense for THIS COUNTRY. Great points by O'Reilly, the rest of the world hasn't liked us for a long time now, not just the last 3.5 years. They resent us because of how far we have come in such a short period of time. We certainly did not get to become the richest, most powerful nation in the world with the help of France, Germany or Russia. We got there IN SPITE of them.

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    LRRS#167

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    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    At least Bush will not ask to pass the "World Test". Love him or hate him, G.W. just makes more sense for THIS COUNTRY. Great points by O'Reilly, the rest of the world hasn't liked us for a long time now, not just the last 3.5 years. They resent us because of how far we have come in such a short period of time. We certainly did not get to become the richest, most powerful nation in the world with the help of France, Germany or Russia. We got there IN SPITE of them.

    Mmmmm, isolationism. Look around your living room man, how many things in that room were made in this country? We are beyond being able to "go it alone".

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  5. #5
    ultrabuddy twrayinma's Avatar
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    High Hopes


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  6. #6
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    There is nothing wrong with importing and exporting, but when it comes to defense, we need not consult with anyone but Americans. That is not isolationism, it's SURVIVAL.

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    LRRS#167

  7. #7
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    There is nothing wrong with importing and exporting, but when it comes to defense, we need not consult with anyone but Americans. That is not isolationism, it's SURVIVAL.
    Oh, I see, so we can lose all credibility in the world... and as a result our intelligence contacts, and our information networks around the world...

    Thats a great strategy for success against an enemy we can't confine, and have only been able to nail via intelligence that did not originate from our operatives...

    It used to be that when we went to war, when you looked at the action in retrospect, noone could deny that it was justified. WWI, WWII, Korea, etc. As a result, we HAD credibility, the world will tolerate and enjoy the presence of superpowers when they can trust those superpowers won't go around weilding force all willy nilly. Force without credible motives is just bullying.

    You don't give the other countries in the world a veto, but you do damn well need to be able to clearly illustrate that the justifications for your actions are real. Like I said, force without credibility is a scary thing (Think Germany 1930s).

    When it comes to ACTUAL DEFENSE, yes, you don't need to consult with anyone, but you better be DAMN sure that what you are doing is going after a real threat. We hurt our credibility in the world by going after Iraq on the basis of WMD, and mark my words we will pay for it.

    Done with this thread, don't know why I bothered typing this since obviously noones mind is gonna change.

    John Wayne foreign policy doesn't work. We will reap what we sow.

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  8. #8
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    hohum or I should be able to say, Chris (we have debated on a number of occasions),

    You talk of this 'credibility' thing. Do you forget that the intel used to justify going in and taking out Saddam was gathered from international sources??? France and Germany and Russia even contributed to this intel!!!!! We did what noone else had the balls to do!!!! They all saw the same gathering threat that we did from THE SAME DAMN INTEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, then they decided that they would rather sit around with their croissants and coffees and discuss how to impose futher, INEFFECTUAL sanctions against a lunatic who had no intentions of EVER abiding by INTERNATIONAL rule.

    So don't talk to me of this "credibility" bullshit. We(including Great Britain, Australia, Poland) did our part while the other pansies sat back and did NOTHING.

    BTW, the U.N. has done such a great job of organizing and sending help wherever in the world it may be needed...PPPUUULLLEEEZZZE. They stand by and watch as thousands of Africans are slaughtered every day.

    The USA has nothing to apologize for. And, by the way, how long do think it will be before one of these countries comes crying to us for help? My guess is not to long at all, they always come back begging us to help.

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  9. #9
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    France and Germany and Russia even contributed to this intel!!!!! ... THE SAME DAMN INTEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Heh, ok, and they ALSO decided that it wasn't time for war yet, I wonder why? Maybe because they saw the intel as being flimsy at best and realized that to fight terrorism most effectively involves not creating thousands of new terrorists? Sure they had their vested interests, so did we. You can use the "they saw the same damn intel" argument in reference to Kerry and his voting record but it just doesn't apply when you are talking about the rest of the world. Those countries contributed some intel, so they knew some things that were going on in Iraq, but they made the assesment that at that time, the threat was not provably imminent or even plausibly imminent.

    But don't think for a second if we had actually worked with these countries (its all about carrots and sticks) we couldn't have got them to come to war with us. France and Germany could both have been convinced IN TIME that war was the only choice, but they like every other reasonable person should, needed to be convinced that it was a last resort, OR that Iraq really posed an imminent threat to them or their allies. It was neither.

    Had we waited and put together a true coalition (and don't go saying I'm putting down Poland, and England, because I am not) of a large number of nation states, a) we would have had the force on the ground to keep the peace after Baghdad was taken, b) we would have been able to more effectively put off naysayers by saying 'look, everyone else is with us, whats wrong with you?' (thats more powerful than you think), c) we wouldn't be bearing the lionshare of the cost associated with waging this war and keeping the peace when arguably it had nothing to do with national security (even if prior to going to war there was some evidence that it COULD have something to do with national security, we can't be having an itchy trigger finger) d) we would have forged a WORLDWIDE alliance combatting terrorism which has to be more effective than going it alone

    *sigh* like I said, no minds changed... I feel like the winner of this year's Special Olympics Breast Stroke event...

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  10. #10
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    heh....
    As long as we're talking of Special Olympics, I think I won the same event, so we both get medals!!!! YAY!!!!!! I can swim, YAY!!!! We all win, YAY!!!!!

    I agree, it is rather pointless to belabor each others points when neither of us will be changing our minds based upon this meaningless internet argument. We would be better off sitting in bar and hammering this stuff out over a few frosty beverages.



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    LRRS#167

  11. #11
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    but i like reading it

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  12. #12
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by hohum
    Heh, ok, and they ALSO decided that it wasn't time for war yet, I wonder why? Maybe because they saw the intel as being flimsy at best and realized that to fight terrorism most effectively involves not creating thousands of new terrorists? Sure they had their vested interests, so did we. You can use the "they saw the same damn intel" argument in reference to Kerry and his voting record but it just doesn't apply when you are talking about the rest of the world. Those countries contributed some intel, so they knew some things that were going on in Iraq, but they made the assesment that at that time, the threat was not provably imminent or even plausibly imminent.

    But don't think for a second if we had actually worked with these countries (its all about carrots and sticks) we couldn't have got them to come to war with us. France and Germany could both have been convinced IN TIME that war was the only choice, but they like every other reasonable person should, needed to be convinced that it was a last resort, OR that Iraq really posed an imminent threat to them or their allies. It was neither.

    Had we waited and put together a true coalition (and don't go saying I'm putting down Poland, and England, because I am not) of a large number of nation states, a) we would have had the force on the ground to keep the peace after Baghdad was taken, b) we would have been able to more effectively put off naysayers by saying 'look, everyone else is with us, whats wrong with you?' (thats more powerful than you think), c) we wouldn't be bearing the lionshare of the cost associated with waging this war and keeping the peace when arguably it had nothing to do with national security (even if prior to going to war there was some evidence that it COULD have something to do with national security, we can't be having an itchy trigger finger) d) we would have forged a WORLDWIDE alliance combatting terrorism which has to be more effective than going it alone

    *sigh* like I said, no minds changed... I feel like the winner of this year's Special Olympics Breast Stroke event...
    First...Chirac stated b4 the debate that no matter who is President they will not going into Iraq...

    Also, the debate whether to go to Iraq was NOT about the threat...everyone agreed the Saddam was a threat that needed to be delt with...

    Our intel...british intel..russion intel all said that he had these weapons....all of congress saw this and agreed that Saddam needed to be delt with...

    The arguement now is NOT that we went to war with Iraq..but how...and that is monday morning quarterback BS...it is just another case of the liberals jumping on a bandwagon..putting their political goals ahead of what is important to the country...

    And this is something Kerry has made a career out of doing..plaing politcs...his senate career SCREAMS this..that is why no one wants to talk about his record... 20+ years in the senate..5 bills proposed...0 passed...he has done nothing but tread water and play partisan politics with his buddies during his entire career..starting from when he touched down on US soil after his 4 mos of Veitnam...

    And NOW with 30+ days until the election Kerry has a clear veiw and all the answers..please...what kind of credibility has he earned...I can't beleive you libs are falling for this hook-line-and sinker.. It is really sad to tell you the truth...Clinton was able to sandbag you guys for eight years..now you want more..lol no thanks

    All of your points would be valid in a pre-9/11 mind set..not anymore..and dont give me any crap about Saddam not being involved in 9/11..dur...that is not the point. The point is when you have all these warning flags in your face you act on them..and you do not wait for the rest of the country to fall in line...you lead by example..

    The select few that did not agree with us going in..had other things beside our national sercurity in mind...their pockets.. Iraq owed france a shit load of money...and neither France nor Germany wanted to screw up their contract with Iraq...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  13. #13
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    We would be better off sitting in bar and hammering this stuff out over a few frosty beverages.
    ya that would go smoothly...lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  14. #14
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    ya that would go smoothly...lol
    heh....do ya think it would come to blows???? No worries, I don't think I could fight with any of my brothers here in NESR. Despite some of our political differences, we are still one big family. I would fight for a NESR member, just not against them.

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    LRRS#167

  15. #15
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    hah, i'd pay to see it... you two guys yellin at eachother over politics & some dickhead lib blindsides big red outta nowhere w/ a right cross and you go after THAT dude

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  16. #16
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    heh....do ya think it would come to blows???? No worries, I don't think I could fight with any of my brothers here in NESR. Despite some of our politcal differences, we are still one big family. I would fight for a NESR member, just not against them.


    Heh, no way it would come to blows, you forget, I'm a liberal pussy

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  17. #17
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Heh, no way it would come to blows, you forget, I'm a liberal pussy
    HA!!!! I talk the big talk, but I probably couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag. But, God help the asshole that tries to fuck with us while we are debating the issues...

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  18. #18
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    heh....do ya think it would come to blows???? No worries, I don't think I could fight with any of my brothers here in NESR. Despite some of our political differences, we are still one big family. I would fight for a NESR member, just not against them.
    lmao..maybe not blows...but it could get heated thats for sure...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  19. #19
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    High Hopes

    We're doomed, plain and simple. Bush believes he is the son of God, so he's totally content in passing on his beliefs via legislation. And there's no end in sight to this mess in Iraq.

    No one knows what the hell Kerry stands for. He's against the war, but he will continue it if elected. Huh? He has all sorts of ideas and new things he wants to do, yet he says he won't raise taxes. How? Does he plan on asking Teresa for a loan?

    Americans are too stupid to realize that there are other candidates out there besides Bush and Kerry. Then there is the idea that Hillary will run in 08.

    *shudder*

    Why is it so hot here, and what am I doing in a handbasket? Tickets to Vancouver are only $324 right now. Hmm....

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    Yup.

  20. #20
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by Cam_In_RI

    Why is it so hot here, and what am I doing in a handbasket? Tickets to Vancouver are only $324 right now. Hmm....
    I love it

    Heh, I'm right with ya Cam... I'd be voting libertarian if they even had a rats chance in hell of garnering enough support to be considered for the debates next year, other then that, all I care about is that W is out of office. (actually not even him, but his cronies (ashcroft, rumsfeld, cheney), but given that to get those folks out of power takes getting W out of office :shrug: )

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    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  21. #21
    Member Bad Dog's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Want to see something scarey take a look at Kerrys voting record....


    His voting record (and in many case lack of voting) does not lie...
    He says one thing and totally does another! Can you trust this guy to run the country? Especially since he wants to put everything to a World Test, is that because he can not make a tough decision himself? I for one do not want anyone else in this world telling me how to live, when to defend this country and how our constitution will work. It is a slippery slope when you start letting other countries tell you what and how to do it. Isn't that why we had a revolution and adopted our own Constitution?

    Bush may mean lower wages for middle class, but Kerry equals higher taxes for the middle class. Kind of equals out.

    And for any gun owners out there. Kerry wants to impose the Globel Gun Ban put forth by the UN. That would mean that NO private citizen in the US could own any type of gun. They are saying that this will help stop terrorism?! Another World Test?
    Of couse we all know that terrorist follow all gun bans and laws!

    I would love to see a third party get in. Remember there is no such thing as a wasted vote. The Domocrates and Republicans want you to believe that if you do not vote for them you wasted a vote. The only vote wasted is when you do not vote for who you think would be the best president. Americans do not vote for someone, they vote against against someone.

    BIGRED875 very well put forth
    Thank you Bill O'Reilly


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  22. #22
    Hungry like a wolf... MissTwisties's Avatar
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by Bad Dog
    That would mean that NO private citizen in the US could own any type of gun.
    I'm not for anyone getting a gun permit in an easy way, but I am for anyone that proves they are responsible, to own one...that would sucks if responsible citizens couldn't own one. But that thing wouldn't pass here. I'm sure gun owners wouldn't allow it.

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  23. #23
    Member Bad Dog's Avatar
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    Gun owners in England and Australia tried to stop it to no avail!
    They also thought it never would pass, but it is backed by several billionairs (that, by the way have armed body gaurds). One of which lives here in the USA! And just happens to be a large donor to Kerrys campaigne!

    Gun crimes have gone up in both Countries at alarming rates since their guns were taken away. The old saying 'take away the guns from the honest and only the dishonest will have guns'.

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  24. #24
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    High Hopes

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    There is nothing wrong with importing and exporting, but when it comes to defense, we need not consult with anyone but Americans. That is not isolationism, it's SURVIVAL.
    defense? Bush was on rampage.

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    "fuckit!"

  25. #25
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    High Hopes

    I have no problem going to war but if bush wants to pick fights lets do it with some countries worth fighting. I can't even begin to imagine how Iraq was a bigger threat than N. Korea. Bush picked the fight he knew he could win. (And now he's struggling to win it). Pathetic.

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