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Intermittent Fasting

  1. #1
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Intermittent Fasting


    I had my annual physical yesterday. Up 15lbs in a year, now 511, 220. I should be ally be about 185.

    Ive been getting hit with every weight loss ad, from Awaken 180, to Keto, to BS like Androgen400.

    So I decided to ask my MD about a more organized way to lose weight.

    He came right out with intermittent fasting.

    Black coffee and water until noon.
    All eating for the day between 12 and 6.
    Water only after 6.

    After you get to a target weight, go back to a really sensible diet of avoiding carbs and starches.

    Well see how it goes.

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  2. #2

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I don’t understand how that works. I had researched proper nutrition (admittedly not weight loss) when I was training and the key was several small meals during the day. Based on my understanding eating a lot during a window of time and then not eating for extended periods trains your body to store energy in the form of fat because it knows you won’t be eating for a while.
    Definitely interested to see how it will work out for you.

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    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I’ve tried something pretty similar, but I think my body went into “starvation mode” and held onto everything it had, and I didn’t really lose any weight.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I'm a huge fan. I started doing that earlier this year and did some long term fasts periodically as well. The first few weeks are tough, especially if you're a carb fiend sugar burner. Once you make the transition, it's no big deal and pretty game changing. I now eat 1-2 meals a day and don't experience periods of "hangry" like I used to. If I have to "skip" a meal because I'm busy, no biggie. Life goes on and I'll be fine. Leveling out hormone spikes makes life significantly easier to navigate.

    You also might find it easier to tip toe into it with a 16:8 fasting period/eating window and then push it to 18:6. It's a rabbit hole to go down and there are some interesting theories about metabolic changes/benefits the longer you go as well. If you can also do keto for 6-8 weeks it will accelerate things dramatically.

    Don't worry about avoiding carbs too much. If you're not pre-diabetic or anything carbs aren't the enemy. The wrong kind of carbs are. The most frustrating thing is that a lot of the info out there regarding weight loss/fasting seems to be centered around obesity and insulin resistant diabetics. For those of us who aren't, parsing out the relevant info can be a challenge sometimes.

    Edit: You can drink other things before noon and after 6 in your example btw. Black/green tea for example. The key is not to drink/consume anything that will create an insulin response.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 01-09-21 at 08:53 AM.
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    I don’t understand how that works. I had researched proper nutrition (admittedly not weight loss) when I was training and the key was several small meals during the day. Based on my understanding eating a lot during a window of time and then not eating for extended periods trains your body to store energy in the form of fat because it knows you won’t be eating for a while.
    Definitely interested to see how it will work out for you.

    It also trains your body to feed off your fat stores when you're not eating. Sugar burner vs fat burner etc... When you constantly eat, you keep your insulin levels spiked and if you don't burn off the glucose you store it. When you have periods of not eating you deplete your glucose levels and your body is forced to turn fat into fuel. Eventually your cells adapt and become more efficient at this. It takes 6-8 weeks from what I've ready to fully make the transition.

    6 meals a day is the older conventional wisdom for people looking to lift and and pack on muscle as fast as possible. The bulking vs cutting cycles for them are completely different then someone looking to prioritize losing fat mass. That said, you can totally do IF and lift at the same time and there is increasing evidence you can be just as successful if not more so at putting on muscle that way. There's more then one way to skin a cat as they say.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Your body likes to be as efficient as possible and the most efficient fuel source is carbs. They quickly go from stomach to blood sugar in rapid time. This is why you crave it over healthy foods. What is interesting is science has proven that your body turns it into energy during the mornings and mid day but in the evening your body, based on studies of Human Resting Energy Expenditure Varies with Circadian Phase, turns carbs into FAT.

    Eating carbs isn't bad but eating them before bed to increase serotonin which converts to melatonin and helps you sleep is a known cycle of fat storage and then starving yourself during the day to burn that off.

    So starving yourself all day to lose weight works. But it puts your body into a state that is slows metabolism down. You feel like SHIT.

    I suggest going about this differently. Pick a week to start clean eating. Get all the crap out of the house. Eat real old fashioned oatmeal for breakfast with a bit of real local honey to sweeten. This breakfast is so good for you with instant energy to get the day started. It also has a surprising amount of protein and fiber in it so you don't get hungry in an hour. Limit coffee to one cup or 1.5. Caffeine will mess up how your body stabilizes sugar in your system. It can force your pancreas to over stimulate insulin and give you this CRASH of hunger.

    Pre lunch at 10:30-11 your stomach may growl as the body's blood sugar levels are starting to plummet. Eat a hard boiled egg with a dash of sriracha. Hot sauce is a mental stimulant. It's a great boost to a dull egg.

    Lunch 1pm grilled chicken about 1/2 of a normal portion what you want to eat. We eat too much at once and that food turns into fat. Eat just enough to stave off hunger. Eat carbs like baked potato's that were pre cooked but heated back up in microwave. Studies have show that this technique of reheated potatoes changes carbs into a higher protien source. Not sure on this myself but carbs at this time are fine in reason. The trick is to eat enough calories to get you to next meal. NOT overeat because you're hungry. ie don't skip a meal and then become like a shark in blood filled waters.

    Mid day snack carrots with humus, or hard boiled egg or something clean about 100 calories

    Supper get a protein source, fish chix pork etc at small portion with veggies and no carbs. Get the most fiber rich and green veggies you like. For me that's brussel sprouts. Those grilled with a little olive oil and salt are like a snack to me.

    Later evening if you are hungry have a protein shake. No carbs

    Try this one week and see that you won't feel hungry while you lose 3-5 lbs by the end of the first week. You will have cravings but you won't feeling like that crazy hunger feeling.

    Add 30 minutes of exercise a day that works up a real sweat and keep portions correct and it should be 5lbs without starving. YOU Will crave carbs at night and not want a protein shake. This is when the will power will be needed. But for working throughout the day your won't feel lethargic or mentally confused from starving yourself.

    Your cravings will stop and you will feel amazing following this type of diet while losing weight. After the first week you will find on the second you will be able to fast an evening meal. The day is about over. You aren't craving anything then don't eat supper or for the rest of the evening. This after clean eating will be much easier. The loss of calories on your body that is running at full metabolism speed has a dramatic effect on fat burning while you sleep.

    This helps you lose the weight quicker without impacting your ability to work during the day. Once you get down to a healthy weight keep clean eating. It's just smart and healthier way to live. I had two months of junk food due to COVID and Holiday's I let life slide. Now I'm boiling eggs and back to clean eating. Back under 200 please!


    One last point. DRINK WATER. Try to keep water flowing through your body. Dehydrating makes you hungry and filling your gut with a large glass of water has surprising mental and physical benifits while burning fat. You will see your pee staying yellower when you are burning fat. Your kidneys are working hard at cleaning out all of this waste and need the water.

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    Last edited by ducatirdr; 01-09-21 at 09:14 AM.
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    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    I'm a huge fan. I started doing that earlier this year and did some long term fasts periodically as well. The first few weeks are tough, especially if you're a carb fiend sugar burner. Once you make the transition, it's no big deal and pretty game changing. I now eat 1-2 meals a day and don't experience periods of "hangry" like I used to. If I have to "skip" a meal because I'm busy, no biggie. Life goes on and I'll be fine. Leveling out hormone spikes makes life significantly easier to navigate.

    You also might find it easier to tip toe into it with a 16:8 fasting period/eating window and then push it to 18:6. It's a rabbit hole to go down and there are some interesting theories about metabolic changes/benefits the longer you go as well. If you can also do keto for 6-8 weeks it will accelerate things dramatically.

    Don't worry about avoiding carbs too much. If you're not pre-diabetic or anything carbs aren't the enemy. The wrong kind of carbs are. The most frustrating thing is that a lot of the info out there regarding weight loss/fasting seems to be centered around obesity and insulin resistant diabetics. For those of us who aren't, parsing out the relevant info can be a challenge sometimes.

    Edit: You can drink other things before noon and after 6 in your example btw. Black/green tea for example. The key is not to drink/consume anything that will create an insulin response.
    That's what he explained, even the cream in the morning coffee triggers an insulin response. They have thrown around the "pre-diabetic" term along with blood pressure concerns.

    Time to get this back to where it should be and increase my activity level.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by ducatirdr View Post
    You feel like SHIT.

    But for working throughout the day your won't feel lethargic or mentally confused from starving yourself.
    I felt like shit at first, but the longer you do it, weeks wise, the less moody, lethargic and mentally confused as you put it I became. I don't like to think of it as starving yourself, but rather forcing a switch to a different type of fuel which is readily available. Once your body adapts and becomes efficient at using fat instead of sugar for fuel the negative aspects you describe disappear. I was either walking a few miles in the woods, riding my old school pedal bike and/or lifting pretty much every day this past summer while I was dropping weight. It worked out great for me.

    I can go for days without eating at this point and my mood and "cravings" for food is pretty stable. The first 24 hours create the biggest "hunger pains" but drinking something and distractions make them go away pretty quick. After that period the intensity of them diminishes the longer you go without eating.

    Clean eating is definitely key all around and your method of riding an insulin wave out and watching calories closer can work just fine for folks if that's the route they want to go down. As I said, more then one way to skin a cat.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 01-09-21 at 09:19 AM.
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    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Here's some reading, and as part of my NESR New Year's Resolution, its not political!

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2018062914156

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    moody, lethargic and mentally confused
    1. Hey, that resembles me BEFORE this change!

    2. It's a little long, but, "band name alert"!

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  11. #11

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    It also trains your body to feed off your fat stores when you're not eating. Sugar burner vs fat burner etc... When you constantly eat, you keep your insulin levels spiked and if you don't burn off the glucose you store it. When you have periods of not eating you deplete your glucose levels and your body is forced to turn fat into fuel. Eventually your cells adapt and become more efficient at this. It takes 6-8 weeks from what I've ready to fully make the transition.

    6 meals a day is the older conventional wisdom for people looking to lift and and pack on muscle as fast as possible. The bulking vs cutting cycles for them are completely different then someone looking to prioritize losing fat mass. That said, you can totally do IF and lift at the same time and there is increasing evidence you can be just as successful if not more so at putting on muscle that way. There's more then one way to skin a cat as they say.
    That makes sense but it will need discipline still. It’s not eat WHATEVER between the eating hours.
    I never training to get muscle FYI. And I was eating a lot more “meals” per day than 6. It was about understand protein and carbs mix. Slow and fast releasing carbs. Etc.

    Seems like this is a good approach for someone who wants to lose weight but doesn’t want to work out (?) (sure you could if you wanted to but this wouldn’t be your first choice).
    Glad to hear it worked for you.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    1. Hey, that resembles me BEFORE this change!

    2. It's a little long, but, "band name alert"!
    I think you'll find that dropping highly processed carbs/foods will have a huge effect in mental clarity. I've seen that Harvard study before. The more you research this the more you see the name Dr. Jason Fung come up. His practice is focused on the obese diabetic side of things, but he's also someone who seems to give it to you real instead of saying you MUST do it this way. He'll straight up say things like, you can do it that way, but you can also do it this way. Whatever works for you. The key is to make it sustainable and have it feel less like you are sacrificing something for a goal. He does a good job at reinforcing that.

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    Senior Member ducatirdr's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    I felt like shit at first, but ...

    Clean eating is definitely key all around and your method of riding an insulin wave out and watching calories closer can work just fine for folks if that's the route they want to go down. As I said, more then one way to skin a cat.
    I find a period of clean eating is a great path to intermittent fasting. Your mental toughness is probably better than mine. I suggest baby steps. The impact to dietary changes to your ability to work and think often crushes the desire to stay on a healthy path. The old bandaid getting ripped works for some people. I hate to admit I'm more of a slow ease in to it when it comes to diet. I am really moody as fuck if I don't eat right. But as you mention once I am on the straight and level with clean eating then fasting a day or more is actually a LOT easier.

    Intermittent Fasting-screen-shot-2021-01-09-a

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    That makes sense but it will need discipline still. It’s not eat WHATEVER between the eating hours.
    I never training to get muscle FYI. And I was eating a lot more “meals” per day than 6. It was about understand protein and carbs mix. Slow and fast releasing carbs. Etc.

    Seems like this is a good approach for someone who wants to lose weight but doesn’t want to work out (?) (sure you could if you wanted to but this wouldn’t be your first choice).
    Glad to hear it worked for you.
    It depends. Endurance athletes will utilize this method as well.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    That makes sense but it will need discipline still. It’s not eat WHATEVER between the eating hours.
    I never training to get muscle FYI. And I was eating a lot more “meals” per day than 6. It was about understand protein and carbs mix. Slow and fast releasing carbs. Etc.

    Seems like this is a good approach for someone who wants to lose weight but doesn’t want to work out (?) (sure you could if you wanted to but this wouldn’t be your first choice).
    Glad to hear it worked for you.
    Yes, discipline and not treating it as a license to feast on just anything when you do eat are key. You still do need to be cognizant of macros and proper nutrition if you want it maximize success.

    I worked out plenty and put on muscle while dropping 20 lbs. Granted my maximum power days are well behind me at this point, but getting toned, stronger and dropping fat is still my ultimate goal. The only thing I struggled with was when I was doing alternate day fasting and lifting near my peak. That wasn't sustainable for very long. Fasted lifting workouts became my norm and year ago I would have avoided them like the plague.

    If you're really interested, watch Thomas Delauer on YouTube. Jacked dude who combines lifting, IF and keto at times. He's somewhat controversial and infomercial at times, but there's a shit ton of interesting info in there to ponder as well.

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  16. #16

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    It depends. Endurance athletes will utilize this method as well.
    Like I said my knowledge also may be outdated. But good to know.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by ducatirdr View Post
    I find a period of clean eating is a great path to intermittent fasting. Your mental toughness is probably better than mine. I suggest baby steps. The impact to dietary changes to your ability to work and think often crushes the desire to stay on a healthy path. The old bandaid getting ripped works for some people. I hate to admit I'm more of a slow ease in to it when it comes to diet. I am really moody as fuck if I don't eat right. But as you mention once I am on the straight and level with clean eating then fasting a day or more is actually a LOT easier.

    Intermittent Fasting-screen-shot-2021-01-09-a
    Absolutley! I didn't mean to imply I jumped right in and made it work and I doubt my mental toughness is really that much different then anyone else's. I can be pretty stubborn though.

    I actually started with cleaner eating, steel cut oats, less processed shit etc... this lead me to researching IF and other types of fasting more. Eventually I started doing the occasional longer fast and this lead to me just going full keto for a little bit. I just kind of fell into it. "Since you're in ketosis during longer fasts why not just stay ketogenic in diet." Boom. Keto happened. If you asked me at this time last year if I would ever do keto and give up my carbs I would have laughed in your face!

    Now, I've reintroduced some more carbs into my diet and do more IF/dirty keto types of eating. If I was at a get together I didn't want to be "that guy" who was all, ewww I'm keto, I can't eat that. I'll crush a pizza with you or eat mac and cheese or mac salad etc... whatever. If I do "feast" at a party or just go nuts on occasion, I just watch what I eat for the next few days a little closer.

    My goal is still to enjoy life and food and not let a "diet" dictate how I live. I'm fine with structuring my life loosely around a "diet" but I don't want it to control it if that makes any sense.

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  18. #18

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Found out some notes and photos. At my peak I was 6ft 162lbs (2016) and very toned - I would have one cheat day every 10 days - everything else was strict diet with no bullshit carbs.
    I guess shrinking is also a thing as we get older (and break bones). So now I’m 5-11” at the worst shape of my life at 175lbs. Much worse diet last year (2019) because I was on the road I was eating out almost every single meal (disgusting). Hit a cholesterol high also.
    Need to start eating some fruit and salads here and there again and cut out shit take out food.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    It's still the same ole song and dance burn more calories than you take in. I have some friends that doing this is easier than counting macros for them so it works. Find a method that works with your abilities and discipline. They all take discipline but everyone is different. I can't fast, I'd fucking murder a person. I tend to eat more times over the day, don't eat junk and try to make sure my protein intake is high enough to build muscle.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    It's still the same ole song and dance burn more calories than you take in. I have some friends that doing this is easier than counting macros for them so it works. Find a method that works with your abilities and discipline. They all take discipline but everyone is different. I can't fast, I'd fucking murder a person. I tend to eat more times over the day, don't eat junk and try to make sure my protein intake is high enough to build muscle.
    Truth, but that's oversimplifying it quite a bit. It does provide structure to help control calories in/out as a diet tool, but there are lots of different things going on behind the scenes that can be beneficial for people past just simply dropping a few pounds.

    I think you'd find the "murder" instinct would go away after a bit as well. In your line of work I'd think metabolic flexibility would be extremely advantageous at times. Whatever works for you though.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Like I said my knowledge also may be outdated. But good to know.
    Most of my morning workouts are fasted. If I am working out for over an hour I will consume calories during the workout...usually in the form of clif blocks.

    If the activity is sheer endurance I will often not fuel as much, as I am burning mostly fat since my heart rate is low. I don't have a great grasp on it, but enough to get by. It seems like others in this thread have delved deeper into it.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Truth, but that's oversimplifying it quite a bit. It does provide structure to help control calories in/out as a diet tool, but there are lots of different things going on behind the scenes that can be beneficial for people past just simply dropping a few pounds.

    I think you'd find the "murder" instinct would go away after a bit as well. In your line of work I'd think metabolic flexibility would be extremely advantageous at times. Whatever works for you though.
    Right, because weight-loss is as simple as caloric deficit. Regardless of how much you wanna lose.

    I can work all day and not eat. I'm just not as pleasant.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Right, because weight-loss is as simple as caloric deficit. Regardless of how much you wanna lose.

    I can work all day and not eat. I'm just not as pleasant.

    We're pretty much saying the same thing.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I'm not looking at this as training for anything, although at 5 lbs less than my current weight I rans a hilly 5k at 8:10 per mile pace this summer.

    As I get older (as all of you will as well if you're not already) this is more about lifestyle change. I see very few overweight people over 60 without a seemingly increasing number of health issues. It just seems to me that putting less weight related stresses on the aging body makes sense.

    I'm also coming around to the idea of adding strength training to cardio to preserve muscle mass. But that could be a whole tangent thread of its own.

    The phrase I'm focused on is "functional strength" which in some corners is also know as "old man strength" in that it doesn't look like much to others.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    I'm not looking at this as training for anything, although at 5 lbs less than my current weight I rans a hilly 5k at 8:10 per mile pace this summer.

    As I get older (as all of you will as well if you're not already) this is more about lifestyle change. I see very few overweight people over 60 without a seemingly increasing number of health issues. It just seems to me that putting less weight related stresses on the aging body makes sense.

    I'm also coming around to the idea of adding strength training to cardio to preserve muscle mass. But that could be a whole tangent thread of its own.

    The phrase I'm focused on is "functional strength" which in some corners is also know as "old man strength" in that it doesn't look like much to others.
    Please add strength training. Everything in fitness and diet is about finding things that work for you in both areas. I subscribe to the don't eat like an asshole and move more theory. Unless you have a specific goal that's what we all need.

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