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Intermittent Fasting

  1. #51
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting


    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post

    But I’ve gone 7-8 days with no problems at all. Humans haven’t had regular meals available until fairly recently: our bodies are designed for it.
    Yeah. Making that mental shift from "I have to eat, it's been hours", "to fuck it, I'll be fine, no biggie" was a game changer.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 01-10-21 at 08:44 AM.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I'm a little late to the party, but let me weigh in. I struggle with my weight constantly. I'm an over-eater with an insatiable appetite. That means that I am constantly restricting myself to very strict diets, and I'm getting pretty experienced at losing weight. Intermittent fasting works to speed up weight loss, but I'm not so sure that it has any magical powers compared to any other diet. Restricting the time that you can eat in is an easy way to limit calorie intake. Personally its very difficult for me unless I'm also using a keto diet. The keto diet works the same way to help lose weight by restricting what you can eat. Unlike normal calorie counting and diets, keto seems to keep the dieter much less hungry in general and there are far fewer cravings. So, combining keto, to lower your hunger levels and manage cravings, with intermittent fasting is a great way to accelerate weight loss.

    There are downsides to both though. I did some quasi-scientific testing and found my aerobic performance was down about 10% on keto (I was cycling on a standard route maintaining a similar heartrate and recording my average speeds) and more explosive and higher intensity activities, like lifting and sports, suffered even more. So, when racing season comes, it's hard to cycle carbs for competition, and then go back to keto when the weekend is over.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post

    There are downsides to both though. I did some quasi-scientific testing and found my aerobic performance was down about 10% on keto (I was cycling on a standard route maintaining a similar heartrate and recording my average speeds) and more explosive and higher intensity activities, like lifting and sports, suffered even more.
    I had a similar experience, and it seems that part of the "keto flu" is experienced by most as they go through a transition phase. After a few weeks I found performance to return and continue to improve. 6-8 weeks is what I've seen is what it takes to make a complete shift from "sugar burner" to "fat burner". It's a transition, and after that carb cycling becomes easier. Garandman mentioned fasting and then feasting for 2 days prior to a game. There's info out there that shows that is an effective way to "supercharge" performance for a big event before your body starts to level off again. When you have a defined switch between autophagy and mTor everything is essentially magnified for a period and then returns to more of a baseline.

    I feel like a lot of people are minimizing IF in general. It certainly can be viewed as simple tool to control calories and weight loss can absolutely be reduced to that and "move more". There's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes that can be highly beneficial health wise past dropping a few pounds. There are definitely advantages to be had even if you don't need to drop weight. I'll post a few links in a little bit.

    In the end, it can be a rabbit hole to go down if so desired. People can use it to improve their quality of life in general or they can use it as a tool to drop a few pounds.

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  4. #54
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    There's no doubt that the only answer is caloric deficit. There are a million good and bad ways to get there.

    For me, the intermittent fasting focuses me on two things:
    1. When I can eat.
    2. Not overeating during that time.

    I am (hopefully was) a night eater, usually carbs after dinner up to bedtime, which probably set up easy weight gain.

    I also have a theory about water weight loss. Unscientific. There's hydration, but there's also bloating, not edema, just retention of water different than being adequately hydrated.

    I think there is certainly illusory weight loss due to lack of hydration, but I think, especially early on, that there is weight loss as a function of ridding the body of what it doesn't need.

    if 56% of my body is water https://www.healthline.com/health/bo...y-water-charts, then its awfully hard to lose weight and not lose water.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I'll just leave these here if people want to go down the rabbit hole.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/ The G to K switch is glucose to ketones (sugar to fat).

    The continuous increase in emotional as well as physical well-being was evident across all groups of different fasting period lengths. The G-to-K switch has been shown in IF to lead to enhanced performance in cognition, mood, motor and autonomic nervous system function [2, 55]. In IF and CR this is linked to the release of BDNF [51, 56]. BDNF, associated with neurogenesis and neuron protection, enhances the growth and survival of serotonin neurons [51, 57]. Furthermore, the reduction of insulin and leptin levels appears to act on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, thereby impacting mood positively [58]. Endogenous opioid (β-endorphin) could also contribute to well-being, as documented in a 10-day fasting trial in men [59].
    Intermittent Fasting-8-fasting-benefits-1606229630865_175fabf1f92_original-ratio
    Attachment 54341
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Intermittent Fasting-hourly-benefits-fasting-jpg  

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    Last edited by e30addict; 01-10-21 at 09:54 AM.
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    I think there is certainly illusory weight loss due to lack of hydration, but I think, especially early on, that there is weight loss as a function of ridding the body of what it doesn't need.
    There's a direct correlation to insulin levels dropping. A declining insulin level is a signal to the kidneys to excrete water. It's why you also see diabetics have issues with water retention on the other side of things. That also has a direct effect on sodium retention that is linked to the hypertension part of the equation there as well.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...C_TITLE_HDR_11

    Cutting carbs is a common strategy to quickly drop excess water. Carbs are stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen, but glycogen also pulls water inside along with it.

    For every gram of glycogen you store, 3–4 grams (0.11–0.14 ounces) of water may be stored with it. This explains why people experience immediate weight loss when switching to a low-carb diet, which reduces glycogen stores.

    Carbs also lead to a rise in the hormone insulin, which can increase sodium retention and reabsorption of water in the kidneys (40Trusted Source, 41Trusted Source).

    Low-carb diets lead to a drop in insulin levels, which then leads to a loss of sodium and water from the kidneys.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21629870/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17686957/

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  7. #57

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I have nothing against IF. Seems to be the newest fad and works for many people. It's also something I've tried but didn't particularly care for as as practice.

    Best weight loss plan is the one that you can consistently stick to. No matter what it is. Some like cardio (I despise it as weight loss means, 6 packs are made in the kitchen), some lake paleo/eating meat. Some like programs like WW and some like IF etc.

    For a certain point in time I used to eat ~600 calories for 24 hours 3 to 4 days a week inadvertently due to work schedule. 12.5 hour shifts, no food within reach, eat during your break and then go home and sleep/repeat. It's certainly IF territory and I used to do that before IF was even a mainstream thing or something I was doing on purpose. Never saw any crazy amazing results even doing that extreme.

    Full reference I've got from ~180lbs as my heaviest to about 139lbs as my most recent lightest I can remember being at about 5'7. Currently at ~152 getting back into regimen.


    For me, consistently the one thing that works is to count calories and shoot for ~1500 a day. I used MyFitnessPal for years. Eventually you get into a routine that you know how many calories everything you eat on the regular is and it makes easy simple math. However at the same time, simple brain math doesn't keep you "accountable" so it's much harder to stick to a program if you don't write it down.

    My $.02

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post

    For me, consistently the one thing that works is to count calories and shoot for ~1500 a day.
    Well that certainly explains how you can keep your grocery bill so low.

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  9. #59

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Well that certainly explains how you can keep your grocery bill so low.
    Fair. But I'm also up ~13 pounds, that came from somewhere!

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  10. #60
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    This thread is interesting to me. I've never really struggled with weight, and I'm still not what I would call fat, but in the last 3 years I have somehow gained 10 pounds and really can't lose it.

    I train routinely. Bodyweight, HIIT, trail running, hiking, plus all the moto stuff. I lost my way eating wise a little bit due to so much time spent on the road, but have been back on track for a year. I cook mostly plant based at home with attention paid to getting protein.

    I don't know what has changed other than my age. I turned 50 last summer. But suddenly it is seems impossible to lose that last ten pounds to get lean. I'm not really wanting to do anything whacky like fasting, but I'm at a loss.

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  11. #61
    Senior Member ducatirdr's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Welcome to >50 years old. The body's production of testosterone is dropping rapidly at this age UNLESS you are in a routine of weight lifting and working out that help slow it down. Google what happens with loss of testosterone and how to force your body to keep up production. Daily weight training seems to be the best way to keep the body from sliding into the couch. This is normal and part of aging just like women going through menopause it can be minor and not an issue or major and require medical assistance. For those of us that have normal levels weight training and eating like an athlete is the best way to go. I have two friends that use testosterone gel. They work out and are ripped and it sort of pisses me off at how easy they keep weight off and burn calories. I went to the doctor and had my levels checked and he told me it was normal. So no medical science trick for me.

    At 58 I look back to days of turning 30 and getting up at 5:30am to ride 40 hilly miles to work and then 40 back home on my bicycle from Worcester to Lowell via Rt 70 & 110. Could I do that today? YES! Do I want to? FUCK NO!!!!! LOL I will Mt-bike and do fun outdoor stuff but that level of training is a memory for me now. I just don't have that drive to do that any longer. It hurts, you don't don't have the same kick of euphoria that your body used to produce when doing those type of events. It was hard but it wasn't grueling. Now at 58 my avg speeds have dropped. My aches increased and it's just not FUN to do those all day in the saddle rides. Now a couple hours of Mt-Biking to me is more fun. Plus I got hit by a car minding my own business while road riding on my bicycle ten years ago. It lost most of its fun from that I assume. I use other things like recent delve into surfing to spur me on. Force me to watch the scale and stay flexible.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Yeah, I definitely do less big days, but I'm training smarter and I'm still really fit and flexible. Not exactly training daily though... I guess I could add a 20 minute session in daily. with a day job and 2 side hustles it get's tough sometimes. I will try to commit to at least a TRX session every day.

    BTW, surfing is awesome and also one of my motivators. I have had trouble getting to the shore much this year though.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    This thread is interesting to me. I've never really struggled with weight, and I'm still not what I would call fat, but in the last 3 years I have somehow gained 10 pounds and really can't lose it.

    I train routinely. Bodyweight, HIIT, trail running, hiking, plus all the moto stuff. I lost my way eating wise a little bit due to so much time spent on the road, but have been back on track for a year. I cook mostly plant based at home with attention paid to getting protein.

    I don't know what has changed other than my age. I turned 50 last summer. But suddenly it is seems impossible to lose that last ten pounds to get lean. I'm not really wanting to do anything whacky like fasting, but I'm at a loss.

    The last 10 pounds sucks! I don't know when I packed it on either. Once I realized it was there I've still never been able to make it go away. Ducatirdr touched on the hormone changes as we age. The margin between the right time to get the right calories in and out seems to get narrower as we age. Those hormone changes and their trickle down effects screw us pretty good and I've never had enough will power or desire to micromanage stuff to make those last 10 go away. I'll be good and then ruin it by stuffing my face with a pastry or pizza or something everytime I get close.

    Have you tried experimenting with macro ratios and timing? Things like heavier carbs and meals in the morning and lighter at night type stuff. I would think it's hard to be very active and get enough calories on a plant based diet without a lot of carbs and/or fat in the equation no? Not burning them off before they get stored seems to get harder and harder.

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  14. #64
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    There's no doubt that the only answer is caloric deficit. There are a million good and bad ways to get there.

    For me, the intermittent fasting focuses me on two things:
    1. When I can eat.
    2. Not overeating during that time.

    I am (hopefully was) a night eater, usually carbs after dinner up to bedtime, which probably set up easy weight gain.

    I also have a theory about water weight loss. Unscientific. There's hydration, but there's also bloating, not edema, just retention of water different than being adequately hydrated.

    I think there is certainly illusory weight loss due to lack of hydration, but I think, especially early on, that there is weight loss as a function of ridding the body of what it doesn't need.

    if 56% of my body is water https://www.healthline.com/health/bo...y-water-charts, then its awfully hard to lose weight and not lose water.
    everything comes to calorie deficit. Keto , atkins, intermittent, it allmakes you want to eat less, feel fuller longer= eating less overall
    for example for me I do Int fasting. coffee in am then at 11 eat at 1 then dinner.

    Weekends are tough especially Saturdays when we have/ had people over for wine/ good dinner( steaks, lobster, apps, paella etc) I fast all day till 4. then we celebrate.
    I wound up eating the same amount or less amount that night than If I had eaten breakfast and lunch. Net results calorie deficit vs a normal Sat

    The tough part is 1 am when the baby wakes and wants to be fed. I heat up the milk and well the frig is right there. I can sniggle something grapes and a slice of cheese.

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    hmmmm......

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Yeah, I definitely do less big days, but I'm training smarter and I'm still really fit and flexible. Not exactly training daily though... I guess I could add a 20 minute session in daily. with a day job and 2 side hustles it get's tough sometimes. I will try to commit to at least a TRX session every day.

    BTW, surfing is awesome and also one of my motivators. I have had trouble getting to the shore much this year though.
    What's the second side hustle?

    I'm really glad to not have any side hustles anymore. Definitely a big relief that I can have some free time.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    What's the second side hustle?

    I'm really glad to not have any side hustles anymore. Definitely a big relief that I can have some free time.
    Real Estate and TTD.

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  17. #67
    Senior Member Jason P.'s Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I have been practicing IF for about 3 years now and have pretty much incorporated into my lifestyle.

    At first it was tough, always hungry, my focus wasn't on my work, but rather food. After about two weeks my body just got used to it.

    A lot of the misconception about fasting is that you are STARVING YOURSELF. Which is untrue. You simply are making a change to the time of WHEN you eat, not necessarily WHAT you eat.
    IF just prolongs your fasting and helps your body not release insulin, which happens when it is metabolizing food, which makes it dip into fat reserves for energy.

    My schedule when I first start IF with cardio/weight training:

    + Fast five days a week
    + Fast from 9pm (last meal) - 1pm (first meal)
    + Intake of liquids only during fast period (black coffee, water, tea) and ABSOLUTELY nothing with sugar
    + Workout in between fasting period (5am gym time)
    + Ate fewer meals, but matched the caloric intake

    After about 1.5 months of this I went from 182lbs to 167lbs. My body looked great, but most importantly the mental aspect of it was a plus. Mentally I felt better, happier, more energetic. My focus was sharp now that I didn't think about food all the time. It became a meal of nutrition rather than something I had to have every day. Though, sometimes I do fast for 24 hours. Take everything with a grain of salt though. I tried Keto, Atkins and a myriad of other diet, but IF simply works best for me.

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  18. #68

    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    I would personally love to see comparison of identical twins eating identical food deficit, one doing IF but other just eating whenever.

    I don't disagree there is likely an insulin twist to IF to make it better but I'm curious as to whether the difference is drastic or marginal/negligible when compared to identical intake at random intervals.

    Found a study on this right now while trying to find a similar to hypothetical example https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28537332/

    Calorie Deficit was not maintained during IF
    [B]
    Measurements and results: While subjects lost 1250 372g monthly during the CR, in the IF period, weight loss was decreased to 473 146 g. BMI of all subjects decreased gradually and as the BMI decreased, glucose, HbA1c, insulin, Homa-IR and TSH levels were decreased. GH levels were at baseline at the beginning, increased in the first six months and stayed steady during the CR and IF period than began decreasing after the IF period, while IGF-I increased gradually during the CR period and beginning with the 7th day of IF period, it decreased and kept on decreasing till the end of the follow-up. Urinary acetoacetate levels were higher during the IF period suggesting a constant lipid catabolism.

    Conclusion: Our results suggest that, CR affects metabolic parameters positively which will help especially pre-diabetic and insulin resistant patients without any pharmacological approach. In addition IF without calorie restriction can enhance health and cellular resistance to disease without losing weight and those effects may be attributed to different signalling pathways and circulating ketones during IF. Changes observed during IF are probably due to the changes in eating and sleeping pattern and thus changes in metabolic rhythm.

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  19. #69
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    My life experiences and observations after lots of ups and downs with weight, being a fatty, being a gym rat, being a DIY crossfitter, being a runner, and settled on being a cyclist but that's a bit up in the air right now.

    Its calories in calories out. Certain diets makes this easier for certain people.
    Staying lean is much easier when training strength and not just cardio.
    Progress comes fast and there will always be a plateau.
    You may weigh what you want to weigh, but will never look how you want to look until you accept that as a fact.
    Train your weaknesses, but you will never defeat your body type.
    Fad diets aren't fads if they work for you.

    My simple guidelines when I care
    -Carbs in morning or need to have a purpose (IE, fueling something)
    -Proteins and fats all day
    -As much lean meat and veggies as I want
    -Go to bed a little hungry

    These few guidelines mesh strongly with diets that are based around being low carb or intermittent fasting, so they get my completely insignificant nod of approval.

    If it takes a fad diet to get you to stick to it, do it.

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    Last edited by JettaJayGLS; 01-12-21 at 03:59 PM.
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  20. #70
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    My life experiences and observations after lots of ups and downs with weight, being a fatty, being a gym rat, being a DIY crossfitter, being a runner, and settled on being a cyclist but that's a bit up in the air right now.

    Its calories in calories out. Certain diets makes this easier for certain people.
    Staying lean is much easier when training strength and not just cardio.
    Progress comes fast and there will always be a plateau.
    You may weigh what you want to weigh, but will never look how you want to look until you accept that as a fact.
    Train your weaknesses, but you will never defeat your body type.
    Fad diets aren't fads if they work for you.

    My simple guidelines when I care
    -Carbs in morning or need to have a purpose (IE, fueling something)
    -Proteins and fats all day
    -As much lean meat and veggies as I want
    -Go to bed a little hungry

    These few guidelines mesh strongly with diets that are based around being low carb or intermittent fasting, so they get my completely insignificant nod of approval.

    If it takes a fad diet to get you to stick to it, do it.
    Wait til you hit 50... Grrrrr.

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  21. #71
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Wait til you hit 50... Grrrrr.
    I gotta laugh about you upset about 10 pounds. I can gain and lose that in a day. That’s not me bragging, I struggle losing weight, and wish it was 10 instead of 50.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    I would personally love to see comparison of identical twins eating identical food deficit, one doing IF but other just eating whenever.

    I don't disagree there is likely an insulin twist to IF to make it better but I'm curious as to whether the difference is drastic or marginal/negligible when compared to identical intake at random intervals.

    Found a study on this right now while trying to find a similar to hypothetical example https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28537332/

    Calorie Deficit was not maintained during IF
    [B]

    So people ate what they wanted and weren't fed a restricted diet during IF and didn't drop as much weight. Not really shocking. IF as a diet "fad" is a tool that helps provide structure to help you manage calories and burn more fat instead of sugar. If you keep stuffing your face with the wrong kind or way too much stuff it ain't gonna help shed the poundage.

    To me, the bigger benefits of IF, especially longer ones, come from the metabolic kinds of changes involved. IF isn't just 16:8 or 18:6. It can be alternate day, omad, or stuff like periodic (intermittent) 48-72 hour fasts etc... Personally, I wasn't chasing a particular number when I started. I wanted to be healthier, stronger and change my body comp. If my weight stayed the same and I was stronger and looked better I would have been plenty happy. Having the pounds drop off and going down a few pant sizes in the process was the icing. It also changed my perceptions on a lot of things and I learned a bunch going down the rabbit hole.

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  23. #73
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post
    I gotta laugh about you upset about 10 pounds. I can gain and lose that in a day. That’s not me bragging, I struggle losing weight, and wish it was 10 instead of 50.
    It's all relative. I only weigh 137 WITH the extra 10. I actually don't care about the number, it's the bodyfat. I just don't feel as good when I'm carrying that extra 8-10percent. And who doesn't like to be ripped and in control of their body? lol. I have just noticed that it has gotten nearly impossible for me to have that control I used to.

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  24. #74
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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Have you considered "water" diet? Its fasting for 7 or more day and all you consume is water traditionally. Some people use add coffee to it. After the 3rd day the body enters ketosis and burns fat for energy. I did it for 7/8 days. I felt kinda crappy for the first 3 days but felt great after that. Lost 5-10lbs too.

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    Re: Intermittent Fasting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason P. View Post
    I have been practicing IF for about 3 years now and have pretty much incorporated into my lifestyle.

    At first it was tough, always hungry, my focus wasn't on my work, but rather food. After about two weeks my body just got used to it.

    A lot of the misconception about fasting is that you are STARVING YOURSELF. Which is untrue. You simply are making a change to the time of WHEN you eat, not necessarily WHAT you eat.
    IF just prolongs your fasting and helps your body not release insulin, which happens when it is metabolizing food, which makes it dip into fat reserves for energy.

    My schedule when I first start IF with cardio/weight training:

    + Fast five days a week
    + Fast from 9pm (last meal) - 1pm (first meal)
    + Intake of liquids only during fast period (black coffee, water, tea) and ABSOLUTELY nothing with sugar
    + Workout in between fasting period (5am gym time)
    + Ate fewer meals, but matched the caloric intake

    After about 1.5 months of this I went from 182lbs to 167lbs. My body looked great, but most importantly the mental aspect of it was a plus. Mentally I felt better, happier, more energetic. My focus was sharp now that I didn't think about food all the time. It became a meal of nutrition rather than something I had to have every day. Though, sometimes I do fast for 24 hours. Take everything with a grain of salt though. I tried Keto, Atkins and a myriad of other diet, but IF simply works best for me.
    So I've been trying this for my morning workouts and I've had an ammonia smell in my nose multiple times during a workout from burning protein because there aren't enough carbs present. How do I get around this? I'm assuming I have to fuel with carbs at some point regardless? It usually happens 45-60 minutes into a workout. Has happened during running, swimming, and cycling.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Christian LRRS/CCS HasBeen ECK Racing
    2011 Pit Bike Race CHAMPION!

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