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Land survey questions

  1. #1
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Land survey questions

    So, after nearly 8 wonderful years in my house, my new neighbors have called a property line into question. Due to the nature of the conversation, I don't expect this process to go smoothly. In short, my neighbor wants to put up a fence or a wall due to my unsightly boat and flatbed trailer and he also thinks my boat is placed too close or perhaps is over the line.

    My response to that was simple, if we're talking about a designator such as a fence or a wall then I'd like to have the line surveyed in order for us both to understand where the line really is. He got pissy and informed me that he will call a surveyor buddy of his. (I haven't told him yet but I have a small issue with his surveyor friend coming over to handle this.)

    Of course, he has no interest in calling me or stopping by to discuss so the bulk of this took place in text while I asked 3 times for us to speak directly since we are losing something in the texts.

    This all ended up at most recent conversation with him yesterday evening. He calls me for the sole purpose of yelling and hanging up...at least in my opinion that was the sole intent. He lit off the launch pad because I messaged him with "You're asking for a lot, bud." It was the "bud" that lit the fuse since his phone call was to inform me that he's not my bud, I'm not his dad so I don't get to call him bud and he doesn't like me. A few other things were said followed by hanging up. I have to admit, it bothered me a bit but I kinda chuckled at the same time.


    Based on the information above my thoughts are to contact town hall for plot details and consider having my enitre plot surveyed.

    As far as his survey buddy finding the line, he's not gonna cut it so I believe it's time to prepare to hire someone (Randy?) to run the entire perimeter and file it with the town, if that's a thing.

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  2. #2
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    That's exactly what I'd do, beginning with Randy.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    The town will have your plot plan and when the last survey was done. Once you have established that, your Bud will have to put the good side of the fence toward you. Sounds like it cant be soon enough..

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    Last edited by MUZ720; 03-07-18 at 10:43 AM.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by butcher bergs View Post
    As far as his survey buddy finding the line, he's not gonna cut it so I believe it's time to prepare to hire someone (Randy?) to run the entire perimeter and file it with the town, if that's a thing.
    PM me with the details, street address, tax map and lot number, book and page of deed, what ever you have at hand, I will come up with estimate


    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    The town will have your plot plan and when the last survey was done.

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  5. #5
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Not sure why that's funny? Glad you got a laugh. Last time I had an issue in Laconia they had that information.

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    Expert Agitator GearHd6's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    I've found that site surveys that you find at the town are great if you can actually find the pins. If you can't find the pins along that neighbors line then that's all useless. I had something similar happen at my house a few years back. I was able to find the pins so the neighbor understood his prefab shed was really on my land. I let them leave it there but when they wanted to sell the house I made them aware they had to move the shed.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Not sure why that's funny? Glad you got a laugh. Last time I had an issue in Laconia they had that information.
    except for recent subdivisions (past 35-60 years depending on town) that are part of the planning board record, in general, tax maps are all that a town has

    beyond that, any surveyor who resurveys something and puts his stamp on the work, becomes responsible for that work, even if perpetuating the error of a previous survey.

    a resurvey is not just going out and mathematically replaceing missing monuments, deed research also has to be verified, order of priorities for conflicts has to be sorted out

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  8. #8
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Didn't say it was the end all solution just a starting point. A lot can be misread. In text and emails😁

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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    The town will have your plot plan and when the last survey was done. Once you have established that, your Bud will have to put the good side of the fence toward you. Sounds like it cant be soon enough..
    I just amazed that someone can be like this. The details I posted are just barely the half of it and what kicked everything off is me asking if he wanted to sell the wood he has stacked next to his house for 100. His response was "Sure, let's talk about boat parking". And from there it went downhill pretty quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    PM me with the details, street address, tax map and lot number, book and page of deed, what ever you have at hand, I will come up with estimate
    PM inbound. Thank you, Randy.

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  10. #10
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Did you really want the wood, or was that a jab?

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    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    subscribed...i have a feeling this is going to get good

    get markers put in so there is no question going forward...stakes are useless when your neighbor is unreasonable and could pull them or move them on you

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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    subscribed...i have a feeling this is going to get good

    get markers put in so there is no question going forward...stakes are useless when your neighbor is unreasonable and could pull them or move them on you
    Out of curiosity, what constitutes a marker that can't be moved?

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    Re: Land survey questions

    I love threads like this. Im in this one for the long haul. Keep us updated please

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    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by golden chicken View Post
    Out of curiosity, what constitutes a marker that can't be moved?
    well they can all be moved typically...but if you dig a hole with post hole diggers that flares out at the bottom and is narrow at the top (shaped like an upside down lightbulb) pour a lump of concrete at the bottom as an anchor...the hole that has to be dug to remove it is pretty large and you will see a disturbance in the grass and know that it's been removed/moved...typically they are granite stone...the ones at my house are home made...just steel pipe with concrete poured in them with a piece of brass in the center of the concrete on the top...my fence went in right against the markers

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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    well they can all be moved typically...but if you dig a hole with post hole diggers that flares out at the bottom and is narrow at the top (shaped like an upside down lightbulb) pour a lump of concrete at the bottom as an anchor...the hole that has to be dug to remove it is pretty large and you will see a disturbance in the grass and know that it's been removed/moved...typically they are granite stone...the ones at my house are home made...just steel pipe with concrete poured in them with a piece of brass in the center of the concrete on the top...my fence went in right against the markers
    Wouldn't something like that be half in the other guy's yard? So you'd ideally want both party's approval before such an invasive installation is performed? And then, who's technically responsible for the grass on the far side of the fence that goes up to the line?

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    Last edited by golden chicken; 03-08-18 at 10:01 AM.
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  16. #16
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by golden chicken View Post
    Wouldn't something like that be half in the other guy's yard? So you'd ideally want both party's approval before such an invasive installation is performed? And then, who's technically responsible for the grass on the far side of the fence that goes up to the line?
    i really wouldn't say it's invasive...it's maybe a 1' diameter hole in the ground...the head of a square granite marker is maybe 5"x5" and sticks out of the ground as much or as little as you want it to...could bury a metal ring a few inches in the ground and grass over it and take swing ties to it and you'd be able to locate it with a metal detector or tape measure and a digging bar...it also depends what the shape of the lot is and how many abutters...usually just a marker at every turn...if he's only worried about one side and the line is straight just put a marker in the front corner where the property meets the road right of way and another at the rear corner of the property...straight lines it's usually just each corner which could end up being only 1/4 of it being on the other guys property if there are 2 abutters to the rear and the 4 property corners meet...put the fence directly on the line or just inside on his property...a few inches of extra grass to mow really isn't an issue

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    Last edited by Point37; 03-08-18 at 10:17 AM.
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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    subscribed...i have a feeling this is going to get good

    get markers put in so there is no question going forward...stakes are useless when your neighbor is unreasonable and could pull them or move them on you
    you know, I've been doing this for 48 years , and that is something I have heard time and time again, but in the real world, it doesn't happen often at all, kinda like only 2 gun owners in 100,000 use them for crimes (not a researched number, only a comparison of claim)

    99.9999999 % of the time, the "missing pin" is there, only buried by years of leaf debris, or pounded in flush by the neighbor or a previous homeowner so the lawnmower wouldn't snag it, buried by routine road maintenance, or ripped out or bent over by a snowplow.

    I can think of only one case where someone actually moved a property corner, and it's worth retelling here

    I was just starting my survey career, 1972 timeframe, we were hired to survey an intown (Winooski, Vermont) house lot that a young couple had just purchased.

    We determined where the boundaries were, and set iron rods (60"long x 5/8" rebar) in the sandy soil.

    About 6 weeks later we get a call from the client, they thought the iron rods had moved on one side. We go to the site, get our equipment out, and sure enough, the rebar on one side of the lot had moved about 6 feet, we pulled em out and reset them, and measured tie distances from the house corners

    About a week later, we get a call from the client again. Apparently every night, right after they went to bed and the lights were out, they heard a tink tink tink, and peeked out the window, the 75 year old widow that owned the property next door had pulled the corners and moved them about 2". A couple nights later, same thing, she moved em a couple more inches, by the time a month had rolled around, she had em moved 6 feet and stopped moving them

    Another time we had 2 elderly people as neighbors that were accusing each other of pulling the pin, they were arguing so aggressively, they were squirting each other with garden hoses. We found the pin, buried under 2 feet of gravel exactly where it was suppose to be, when they jointly paid a contractor to widen the shoulders on their joint common drive

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  18. #18
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    Re: Land survey questions

    When I lived in MA, we paid $1k to have the land surveyed. The rear neighbor was using ours woods to dump trash and debris. Our property line included all the woods, and went up to their lawn. We spoke to them 3 times, started building a rock wall, put up no trespassing signs, and they ignored it all and turned the no trespassing signs around.

    We moved.

    I dont have neighbors now.

    Fuck that guy.

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  19. #19
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    you know, I've been doing this for 48 years , and that is something I have heard time and time again, but in the real world, it doesn't happen often at all, kinda like only 2 gun owners in 100,000 use them for crimes (not a researched number, only a comparison of claim)

    99.9999999 % of the time, the "missing pin" is there, only buried by years of leaf debris, or pounded in flush by the neighbor or a previous homeowner so the lawnmower wouldn't snag it, buried by routine road maintenance, or ripped out or bent over by a snowplow.

    I can think of only one case where someone actually moved a property corner, and it's worth retelling here

    I was just starting my survey career, 1972 timeframe, we were hired to survey an intown (Winooski, Vermont) house lot that a young couple had just purchased.

    We determined where the boundaries were, and set iron rods (60"long x 5/8" rebar) in the sandy soil.

    About 6 weeks later we get a call from the client, they thought the iron rods had moved on one side. We go to the site, get our equipment out, and sure enough, the rebar on one side of the lot had moved about 6 feet, we pulled em out and reset them, and measured tie distances from the house corners

    About a week later, we get a call from the client again. Apparently every night, right after they went to bed and the lights were out, they heard a tink tink tink, and peeked out the window, the 75 year old widow that owned the property next door had pulled the corners and moved them about 2". A couple nights later, same thing, she moved em a couple more inches, by the time a month had rolled around, she had em moved 6 feet and stopped moving them

    Another time we had 2 elderly people as neighbors that were accusing each other of pulling the pin, they were arguing so aggressively, they were squirting each other with garden hoses. We found the pin, buried under 2 feet of gravel exactly where it was suppose to be, when they jointly paid a contractor to widen the shoulders on their joint common drive
    the previous owner of my property pulled the front corner marker on my property and threw it away but there is a rear marker as well as a middle marker...

    i'm surprised more angry neighbors don't pull/move stakes more often...i wonder if there has ever been someone that has had their stake removed/moved and the owner who paid for the survey had the surveyor come back and reset the marker and took the neighbor to court to have them pay for the resetting

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Taking a neighbor to court over a boundary dispute is not cheap, figure $60k-$75k minimum, over the simplest thing

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    We had one client, not a dispute over boundaries, just a clash of lifestyles, my client definitely had an anger management issue, he was under restraining order not to go within 100 feet of his neighbors property, meaning he couldn't use over half of his own property cause of the configuration. He was under court order to hire a surveyor to mark that 100' line

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  22. #22
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    My father's been through this too. Neighbor of his was a real asshole, did a lot of things my father didn't care for. My father isn't the subtlest guy around. Words were exchange, things escalated. At one point he was out tying up a marker line and the guy charged at him with his ATV. Cops were called, foul language used. Etc, etc. Shortly thereafter my father built a 12' (not kidding, twelve feet) wall about 30' long "so I don't have to look at that asshole anymore". Mostly worked. Mostly.

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  23. #23
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Did you really want the wood, or was that a jab?
    Not sure what you mean by me taking a jab. I actually wanted the wood as the rounds I have are still too green. He offered the pile to me for free months ago but I told him I'd give him some amount of cash for it when I was in need. What a mistake that was!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    subscribed...i have a feeling this is going to get good

    get markers put in so there is no question going forward...stakes are useless when your neighbor is unreasonable and could pull them or move them on you
    While I hope he is a better person than that, the pins moving are certainly a concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by xrocket21 View Post
    I love threads like this. Im in this one for the long haul. Keep us updated please
    I will keep the updates rolling.

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  24. #24
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Talked with the previous neighbor earlier today. Turns out there's a pin that was rammed into some ledge during a time when they were considering an addition so now I at least have basic idea of where to look for to find the second pin but this will not affect my desire to pursue a complete survey.

    Haven't heard back from my bud next door. Maybe he's still cooling off.

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  25. #25
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    Re: Land survey questions

    Shitty neighbor situations really suck, such limited options to resolve the situation since normally once it's starts going downhill it's extremely difficult to reverse direction. Just read this "shitty neighbor" story, hopefully your doesn't end up with tit-for-tat retribution

    Texas woman charged with vandalizing neighbor's home | Daily Mail Online

    A 64-year-old woman found herself in court this week after her neighbor recorded her vandalizing his townhouse in Tomball, Texas.

    Rodrigo Camus says he bought a property in the Retreat at Lakewood Forest in October with plans to flip it.

    But he says that neighbor Dallas Rose Lott, 64, has been sabotaging his plans to sell the home by taking down 'for sale' signs and gluing his locks shut so that no one can get into the house.

    'The Realtor would call me and say we had a showing, but the neighbor scares off everyone who comes to see the home,' Camus told the Houston Chronicle. 'She put crazy glue inside of the doorknob so I had to replace the doorknobs. It was noted, but the police didn't do anything about it. She then did it again and then spray painted my windows.' It all stems from a bizarre property dispute, Camus says.

    'She claims that her house should be bigger, and that there's some square feet missing, so obviously it's in mine. Makes sense,' Camus told KHOU.

    Camus says Lott started vandalizing his home in November, shoving pins in the locks, covering the door knobs in duct tape and even spray painting his windows - causing $3,500 in damage.

    He says he complained to the police several times but they said there was nothing he could do until he had evidence that Lott was the perpetrator.

    So Camus installed some security cameras and caught Lott on camera in the act.

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