Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

  1. #1
    Posting Freak danny86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MA/NH
    Posts
    774

    Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    http://www.massrealestatelawblog.com...e-on-property/

    For those more legally educated than me. Does this mean if I do not shovel my sidewalk and say Jehovah Witness came upto my house, walked on the non-shoveled sidewalk , slipped and fall............ I am legally liable ?


    Also the article said it even includes conditions caused by "street plows"

    So if I DO shovel my driveway, go back inside, the plow comes by and puts more snow on my driveway, someone then walks up my driveway slips and falls on the snow put there by the plow , I am liable ?

    If this is true, WOW

    0 Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Administrator Frankenstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Danville, NH
    Age
    42
    Posts
    10,738

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Yes. Welcome to the new America.

    0 Not allowed!
    -Josh || Forum Rules || Stop. Think. Post.

    "I brap with a clear conscience." - nhbubba

  3. #3
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    8,980

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    "In Boston, snow removal is required for the full width of the sidewalk or a minimum of 42 inches. " This is pretty much impossible in front of my house since there is no front yard. A one foot snowfall turns into a three foot snowbank since the snow is not removed from the roadway, just plowed to either side.

    I've assumed that anyone who slipped on the sidewalk in front of our house would try to sue for years. I shovel / snow throw often and put down a lot of ice melter.

    The MA Supreme Judicial Court makes most MA legislators look like Newt Gingrich.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by Garandman; 12-26-10 at 11:33 AM.
    "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
    Richard Feynman.

  4. #4
    '12 Tuono & '02 R6 Eric Baker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Reading
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,155

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Just saw this on the news a little bit ago. Pretty ridiculous. They said that the city(Boston in this case) plows the road up onto the sidewalks, then it's the business owner who has a storefront on that sidewalk's responsibility to then remove that snow or face fines. How is that fair in any way, shape, or form. The business owner is held responsible for something that is at 100% fault of the city plowers.

    0 Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Straight cash homey Pittenger5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Austin
    Age
    37
    Posts
    15,186

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    I always thought of it like what if I have to shovel all day at work (which I did during snowstorms) the last thing I want to do is come home and shovel too. But since people MIGHT walk down my street to get their well needed exercise (why cant they just shovel my driveway instead) I need to shovel more.

    Guess Ill just move to Florida.

    0 Not allowed!
    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  6. #6
    Lifer Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    :lurk:
    Posts
    11,957

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    Guess Ill just move to Florida.
    i hope it snows just over your drivway and sidewalk

    0 Not allowed!
    EX 105 : AMA, ASRA, CCS Mid West & South East
    2014 ASRA SuperStock National Champion - Amateur Division
    Thanks to my 2017 sponsors: All Balls Racing, Galfer, K&N, Motul, Sidi Boots, Vortex, Woodcraft, Yoshimura R&D

  7. #7
    Lifer slammp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,368

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    I believe that the general rule of thumb is "so long as you can demonstrate that you put forth a good effort to keep your property free and clear of snow and ice" then you are alright in court. A long as you can prove that you did shovel and salt. If you take no action and someone falls then yes I believe you are liable.

    0 Not allowed!

  8. #8
    soldier medic neuthunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    boston/abington
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,506

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    yeah but what happens if you're away during a snow storm?.... god wtf happened to common sense and self responsibility

    0 Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Top Banana DuncanMoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    4,914

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by neuthunder View Post
    ...wtf happened to common sense and self responsibility
    They got sued and sentenced to 4 years to life...

    0 Not allowed!

  10. #10
    soldier medic neuthunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    boston/abington
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,506

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanMoto View Post
    They got sued and sentenced to 4 years to life...

    0 Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Worcester MA
    Posts
    543

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Just another example of how common sense and these assholes we elected are moving further apart . We dont need to be told and then threatened to do what we were doing in the first place .

    This all started because of city and state property that wasn't being taken care of and shoveled . The jerk-offs in Boston made it the responsibility of the neighbors to shovel this property along with their own .

    You cant sue the city or state for any kind of damages...so now you can sue the guy that lives next door and minds his own business...

    So , that said , get off the computer and get yer ass outside and shovel...

    0 Not allowed!

  12. #12
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Farmington
    Age
    40
    Posts
    17,308
    Wirelessly posted (HTC EVO "DROID" : Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; Sprint APA9292KT Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

    It's funny that clearing the sidewalk is the businesses responsibility but the sidewalk is city property. I believe the first 10 ft from the edge of the pavement is city/state property.

    0 Not allowed!
    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
    01 SV650S (RC51 eater)/07 KTM 690SM /03 KTM 300EXC
    TRACKS:Firebird/NHMS/VIR/Calabogie/California Speedway/NJMP/MMC/NYST/Palmer/Thompson/Club Motorsports

  13. #13
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    MoonTown
    Posts
    4,132

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Set up a couple of barriers at your property edge, "Sidewalk closed due to treacherous conditions, enter at your own risk."

    Then get ready to be sued anyway.


    Shoveling the snow is typically easier than shoveling a hole to get rid of the bodies this time of year.

    0 Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    8,980

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    I have to say we have some neighbors who never shoveled before who were out there today.

    0 Not allowed!
    "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
    Richard Feynman.

  15. #15
    Infected Slyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Concord, NH
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,693

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    I don't know of any towns up this way that do that. The towns all have those cool little tractors to plow and sand the sidewalks.

    So what happens if you're outside shoveling (doing the CITIES WORK) and fall on their sidewalk? Do you get to sue the city?

    Just think of the money the city could save if they also had the residents shoveling the street in front of their place as well. Hundreds of thousands to millions depending on the size of said city.

    0 Not allowed!

  16. #16
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    8,980

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    I don't know of any towns up this way that do that. The towns all have those cool little tractors to plow and sand the sidewalks.

    So what happens if you're outside shoveling (doing the CITIES WORK) and fall on their sidewalk? Do you get to sue the city?

    Just think of the money the city could save if they also had the residents shoveling the street in front of their place as well. Hundreds of thousands to millions depending on the size of said city.
    The population of Vermont is 622,000.

    The population of Boston, excluding commuters, tourists, and several hundred thousand college students, is 645,000. See the scale of the problem?

    It's 49 square miles of land area and very likely thousands of miles of sidewalks. And a lot of rental housing where the tenants do not have the responsibility of shoveling.

    I have a 24" snow thrower because some of the distances between trees, stairs, etc are so narrow that a Bombardier groomer or similar vehicle would be far too large.

    In our neighborhood, it's pretty simple. There are three of us with snow throwers and we do all the sidewalks for elderly and inform neighbors.

    Do I like the new legislation? No. Does it seem to have helped get the sidewalks clear? Seems so.

    0 Not allowed!
    "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
    Richard Feynman.

  17. #17
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Yamaha Blvd
    Age
    45
    Posts
    13,710

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.

    Not a problem here..just put up a posted sign and keep everyone away!

    Posted, no tresspassing!
    Violators will be shot!
    If you move, you'll be shot again!

    0 Not allowed!
    Yamaha

    A Big Powerful Sportbike

  18. #18
    Straight cash homey Pittenger5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Austin
    Age
    37
    Posts
    15,186

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    THis is a law in Worcester, Boston and Lynn. They said on the news that for Boston the snow stopped at noon and you have 6 hours to clean the sidewalk. So you have from noon to 6pm on a Monday to clean your sidewalk. I guess no one has to work anymore, or is on vacation this week.

    0 Not allowed!
    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  19. #19
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    8,980

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.//
    Yeah, if you aren't looking for single women, hospital care, concerts, museums, professional sports teams, college graduate or professional education, restaurants, easy access to public transportation and the airport, construction, financial services advertising educational or medical jobs, or Boston Harbor and islands, it's not for you.

    I wouldn't be fond of commuting into Boston, but commuting out of Boston in any direction is a piece of cake. It takes me less time to get to Waterville Valley from Boston than when I lived in Portsmouth, NH.

    0 Not allowed!
    "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
    Richard Feynman.

  20. #20
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    the humbling river
    Posts
    12,169

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    As a person who has recently moved away from dense population and into the sticks, I will just say this--> Hellooooo peace and quiet!!


    0 Not allowed!

  21. #21
    Posting Freak danny86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MA/NH
    Posts
    774

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

    On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

    ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.

    0 Not allowed!

  22. #22

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Yeah, if you aren't looking for hospital care, concerts, museums, professional sports teams, college graduate or professional education, restaurants, easy access to public transportation and the airport, construction, financial services advertising educational or medical jobs, or Boston Harbor and islands, it's not for you.
    Yup, its really not for me

    0 Not allowed!

  23. #23
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    8,980

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by danny86 View Post
    What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

    On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

    ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.
    It's common in Southie. The official city rule is 48 hours after the storm ends. In our neighborhood it usually lasts a little longer, but not much. As soon as the snow is gone from the street, the cones disappear. People who abuse it find themselves buying a lot of cones....

    Here's the problem in the neighborhoods. Major arteries are snow emergency routes so residents can't park there during the storm. Parking is allowed on both sides of many other neighborhood streets as a result.

    Years ago, they used to run a front end loader up the street and put it in a dump truck. But EPA rules don't allow them to dump snow in the harbor anymore. "Save the Harbor Save the Bay" filed a series of lawsuits against the city starting in the 1990's to prevent it. So there is literally no place to put the snow.

    So now there is no snow removal. The plows plow all the snow from the road against your car. Most of the contractors shift the plow on each pass so some is on one side, some on the other. But the contractor who did our street put it all on "our" side of the street.

    With an 11.5hp Ariens, yesterday it took me an hour to remove this snow plus another hour shoveling for two cars and an elderly neighbor. It has salt in it so it turns to mush. I have to blow it 3-4 times as I can't go over the car. Keep in mind that we also have to clear the sidewalk. So all the snow from the sidewalk and street winds up in a snowbank between the car and sidewalk.

    One of the city councilmen has been trying to work with MassPort. Logan Airport has a number of ice melters that melt the ice and filter it so the water can be dumped. But the machines are large, expensive, and use a lot of fuel.

    So 48 hours for a regular storm and a few days longer for a big storm seems reasonable to me. It must be hellish in Back Bay, which I understand has something like 11,000 resident cars and 7,000 spaces.

    This legislation may be the straw that broke the camel's back. A lot more people are complaining about the cities snow clearing policies. Here's what passes for snow removal.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by Garandman; 12-28-10 at 01:04 PM.
    "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
    Richard Feynman.

  24. #24
    Hungry like a wolf... MissTwisties's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Southwick, Matachusetts :)
    Age
    45
    Posts
    10,798

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Still trying to think of a reason to live in the city? Hmmm, nope, I can't think of one.

    Not a problem here..just put up a posted sign and keep everyone away!

    Posted, no tresspassing!
    Violators will be shot!
    If you move, you'll be shot again!
    We have that sign right on our front entrance door....lol

    0 Not allowed!
    www.elementsofbalancemt.com
    www.facebook.com/misstwisties

    "If you don't stand for something you fall for everything."
    "Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."


  25. #25
    #331 CBR929RE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bridgewater, MA
    Age
    37
    Posts
    5,699

    Re: Liability if you don't shovel your property ?

    The stores I deliver to are supposed to clear their sidewalks to ensure a safe delivery but it also makes sense for their customers safety also. a few of mine last night weren't done yet. I shoveled a couple but some of the lots it was too compacted to get it down to pavement so really its just something you have to deal with. I give them a few days then I start asking for them to clear it. but a lot of them the property owner/management company is responsible to clear the sidewalks. I understand in the city its a little different because of the situation but stores really should make some kind of effort for their customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by danny86 View Post
    What do you guys think about the people in the city clearing off their parking spot from snow, and then having someone else park in that very spot....

    On one hand, it is a public road, public parking, etc...

    ont he other hand, you just spent 30 minutes shoveling your ass off to make the spot clear.
    you clear one spot and someone takes it later so take a spot someone else cleared. it'll all even out in the end unless you have some real asshole that just waits till there's an open spot every time.

    0 Not allowed!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Property Update
    By Stoneman in forum Dirty Bastards
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 07-28-10, 06:38 AM
  2. Who here has rental property?
    By Stiggy in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-14-09, 05:18 PM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-17-07, 06:00 PM
  4. Insurance Liability vs. Full Coverage
    By bigred875 in forum General Bike Related
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-15-04, 03:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •