Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 44 of 44

modern day job application advice

  1. #26
    Lifer 01xj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CT
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,192
    iTrader Score
    2 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    The biggest problem with most companies these days is that HR handles the gathering of candidates and decides who will initially be brought in. Unfortunately, most of the time they don't know enough about the job to bring the right people forward.

    I got my current job through an internal referral. I applied about two weeks after it was initially posted. The posting then sat open for MONTHS until my buddy finally found out I had applied (we hadn't been in touch for a while) and submitted the internal referral. Apparently, my background fit the role like a glove but this wasn't realized until the internal referral put me on the radar. The referral omits the HR step and sends the application directly to the hiring manger. So in short, the job sat open for months because they were struggling to find the right candidate. Meanwhile, my resume which represented a perfect fit, sat in their pool the whole time unnoticed. HR never picked it up.

    This is not limited to the company I am now working for. I saw it all the time as a hiring manager and hear about it from many others in the similar positions. That being said, getting around the HR barrier any way you can is the best way to go about it.
    • Keep a log of all those who contact you as you score initial screenings/phone interviews etc. Even if you don't get the job, later down the line there other openings in the organization may pop up. You can then use that contact to get in the door. This has worked almost 100% of the time. At a minimum it gets me to a second, in-person interview. Most of the time further.
    • I'm not a fan of this one but a lot of people I know use it and it works. Look for someone on LinkedIn that may be in the group the open position likely falls under and connect with them. Just tell them you saw the posting and are interested in learning about the company. Apparently the success rate is pretty high with this.
    • The other key is to try and help HR as much as possible by understanding their recruiting process. Many companies used software to do word scans on your resume so you need to find out what terms that apply to your skillset or background, also apply to the position. Apparently there are tools out there to help you do this, but I've never gone this route so I can't recommend anything.
    I've heard a lot about your last paragraph at my company. Job gets posed, resumes go in, go to a third party who searches for key words and spits out 20 candidates out of 500 applicants to HR who then just turns around and calls them based off this other service/ company. I tried to get some friends hired who are veterans and people with 4 year degrees to do mostly hands on work like shipping/ receiving/ low end logistics and even with a solid resume they couldn't get past the HR barrier.

    0 Not allowed!

  2. #27
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rehoboth MA
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,623
    iTrader Score
    2 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    The fact is most people in professional careers get their jobs through their network not their resume (not that the latter has no bearing.)

    I would recommend in you case reaching out through your network to see if anyone you know, knows a key person at the company you're interested in. If so, there's a good chance you'll be able to get a meeting.

    I highly *do not* recommend dropping by and trying to talk your way past the receptionist, many of us would consider that unprofessional and a bit crude.

    2 Not allowed!
    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  3. #28
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    MoonTown
    Posts
    3,905
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Timing, you will wait a little while. I applied for something a short time ago and it took them over 3 weeks just to contact me for a phone interview. Give it a little time. But there are so many applicants out there these days that you can get bumped in the sifting process. Finding a relatively close contact on linked-in can help, but some people get real butt hurt if you contact them unsolicited about a job that way. Try to befriend them through someone else, etc.

    0 Not allowed!
    Dad's Dream: Earn enough money to live the life that his wife and kids do.

  4. #29
    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southern CT
    Age
    34
    Posts
    560
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Sorry about that. I quickly read it as your retiring from the current job.

    In my experience I’m going with the bearded fellow above. Everything is about who you know.
    In all the years you’ve been in that line of work, did you have contacts at other firms that know you well enough and also the quality of your work? I’d go down that route for a new gig.

    0 Not allowed!

  5. #30
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    the humbling river
    Posts
    12,059
    iTrader Score
    11 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Networking is a small part of it. I work in a specialized industry where there are really only 2 other competitors on the planet. We've taken in people with zero experience in my line of work right up to highly qualified engineers with patents and plenty of background.

    During the interview process, I'm generally more interested in what the individual will bring to the table rather than suffering through the lip service that so many are seemingly eager to offer. Case and point...We just hired a Manufacturing Engineer with zero background in our field however, as it turns out, he is far more efficient with completing his tasks than the other ME that advertised his medical background and landed his position via lip service. Keep in mind that this new ME landed his job over the numerous other applicants....one of those applicants coming as highly recommended by my boss (which was a rough conversation on its own)....only because of how he got our attention and how he presented his past projects at previous employers. He was persistent with his contact, asked to come in to understand more about us even though we clearly communicated that we weren't fully through the final candidate selection. His follow up "thank you" letter was also noteworthy as he took the time to compose an individual email tailored to each person with whom he spoke. Those little details drew the kind of attention to him that landed him the job.

    0 Not allowed!

  6. #31
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    2,016
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    I can only tell you how things work at the company I work for, but normally our HR folks will respond favorably to applicants who pester them with repeated follow up calls. They interpret it as "enthusiasm" unless there is a large red flag on the applicants resume - things like claiming to have left a prior job due to harassment, many different jobs in a short period of time, large unexplained gaps in employment history, etc. - in which case they will make it clear to the applicant that they are not interested.
    We have hired over 20 employees in the past year alone, and I have been involved in the application review and interview processes for most of them. I can tell you that I have not seen even one single birth date listed on any of the resume's - and even if a birth date did appear, it would be ignored.
    Our HR department does a thorough internet search of every applicant - and that condemns more applicants than you might think. The last thing that the company wants to do is to invest time and effort into screening and testing an applicant, only to have them fail a drug test.
    We have employed outside testing services like Manufacturing Skill Solutions | Scientific Management Techniques and the results can be enlightening.

    0 Not allowed!

  7. #32
    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Haven-ish, CT
    Age
    33
    Posts
    635
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    I highly *do not* recommend dropping by and trying to talk your way past the receptionist, many of us would consider that unprofessional and a bit crude.
    Yes, that is rude, but I didn't say that. I said to stop by with a suit and a smile to drop off a resume to someone. I said that if you're lucky, you may get to briefly talk to HR or someone else -maybe HR and reception is the same person, or maybe the potential manager happens to walk by at the time and introduces him/herself, etc.

    That happening is definitely more likely at a smaller company than a bigger corporation. But either way, physically handing someone a resume along with a handshake and a polite thank you at least gives you a good chance that your resume will end up on someone's desk, as opposed to siting in digital purgatory for who knows how long.

    0 Not allowed!
    Matt
    '07 Yamaha FZ6 - Street
    '01 Honda CBR600F4i - Track
    '98 Suzuki DR350SE - Miscellaneous

  8. #33
    Everybody to the limit!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Medford, MA
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,733
    iTrader Score
    1 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    My advice would be to talk to recruiting firms. A good high tech recruiter will be able to talk to you and get a good sense of what your experience is and what you're looking for, and will have a pretty solid network of opportunities in the area. When I'm looking for a new position I usually find 3 or 4 that I like and then let them do the legwork.

    On the flip side, there are lots of awful recruiting firms out there that will just toss anything remotely resembling the word engineering or technology your way. Ignore these guys, they'll just waste your time.

    0 Not allowed!

  9. #34
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    15,036
    iTrader Score
    1 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    I agree about the doing of the networking. IMO as your career advances in engineering it becomes more and more about who you know. In my experience, "senior" engineers are most often hired as a result of a referral. Looking around my shop, 4 of the last 5 guys we hired were referrals. Only one off the street.

    I'm not even sure if my boss places job reqs through our recruitment system anymore.

    Another thought is that when he does, its almost always CYA because he has someone in mind for a role but company policy requires he advertise it before filling.


    I work for a large, multi-national megacorp. If someone showed up with a resume in hand and passed it to our receptionist I am fairly confident it'd end up in the recycling bin. Neither the receptionist nor the applicant is in a position to have any idea who the hiring manager(s) are. No way it'd be worth their time and effort to figure it out. There are like 4 different business units here, dozens of departments in each. In some cases the managers aren't even based here. I bet the receptionist would suggest you apply online. If this is a large megacorp we're talking about I just don't see dropping off in person doing any good for you.


    And the idea of paying someone to write my resume for me is pretty laughable. I cannot see that being worthwhile. Most resumes get ingested and digested anyway.

    0 Not allowed!

  10. #35
    Perpetual Amateur CEO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,037
    iTrader Score
    3 (80%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    The #1 way to get a job these days is to build and leverage your network. Full stop. That's the new reality.

    Otherwise it's a throw-200-resumes-in-and-get-1-callback type thing.

    Doing this gets your documents possibly looked at. Obviously at that point you need to have good resume, etc. Tailored to the job/field and a non-generic cover letter of course. And then nail the phone screen, nail the first round, nail the behavioral/social one, nail the project and/or group interview, nail the final round, and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    But it's all relevant and I often get asked for more details and more info on whichever parts of it the client is most interested in. He sounds like he's aiming at senior engineering, so a 1-page resume is probably not going to be adequate.
    Anyone with technical or research experience, a multi-page CV (Curriculum Vitae) with details of your work and papers/projects as opposed to a resume is common. For other fields, a standard resume with 1 page max is best. Exceptions in cases where you have a lot of experience but ask yourself if they are old if they are very relevant - can't you summarize your job from a long time ago in a line or two?
    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    The fact is most people in professional careers get their jobs through their network not their resume (not that the latter has no bearing.)

    I would recommend in you case reaching out through your network to see if anyone you know, knows a key person at the company you're interested in. If so, there's a good chance you'll be able to get a meeting.

    I highly *do not* recommend dropping by and trying to talk your way past the receptionist, many of us would consider that unprofessional and a bit crude.
    +1 to all of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    [*]I'm not a fan of this one but a lot of people I know use it and it works. Look for someone on LinkedIn that may be in the group the open position likely falls under and connect with them. Just tell them you saw the posting and are interested in learning about the company. Apparently the success rate is pretty high with this. [*]
    I'd actually argue some version of this is the right way to go, per above. Works best if you find someone with a mutual connection. When searing for a job first thing I would do is go to the company's page, search for employees, find connections (1st degree best, then 2nd, etc). If 2nd, ask the connection you know best to introduce you to someone there, etc. It's a game you have to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattR302 View Post
    If they're local, it wouldn't hurt to show up in person to hand-deliver someone a copy of your resume. Wear a suit, look nice, mention to the receptionist that you're interested in the position and would like to drop off a resume. Ask for a name and phone number of the appropriate HR person so you can follow up later. If you're lucky, you may get a chance to meet with the HR person or your would-be manager right then.

    I've recently changed from an engineering position to a sales/customer relations position. My boss has been doing it for 35 years, and the point he's been hammering home is that face time with the customer is always good. In this case, you're selling yourself to your potential employer. At the very least, you stand out over however many dozen resumes they receive online.

    If they're not local, then yes, try calling. Good luck.
    I could not disagree more strongly. This was true 25 years ago as a 'cool' / innovative thing to do to show your enthusiasm or think outside the box or whatever. Now, it's probably going to be viewed as overly aggressive and cliche (you can find suggestions to do this on google). It's just not how the job market works anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    My advice would be to talk to recruiting firms. A good high tech recruiter will be able to talk to you and get a good sense of what your experience is and what you're looking for, and will have a pretty solid network of opportunities in the area. When I'm looking for a new position I usually find 3 or 4 that I like and then let them do the legwork.

    On the flip side, there are lots of awful recruiting firms out there that will just toss anything remotely resembling the word engineering or technology your way. Ignore these guys, they'll just waste your time.
    Agree. Recruiting firms get paid per placement. Many of them just try to jam jobs down your throat / their clients throat to get a match. More of them have contingencies these days (i.e. person leaves within 6 months they don't get paid) but still, remember what the incentives are. Fine to use them, but just beware.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I work for a large, multi-national megacorp. If someone showed up with a resume in hand and passed it to our receptionist I am fairly confident it'd end up in the recycling bin.

    And the idea of paying someone to write my resume for me is pretty laughable. I cannot see that being worthwhile. Most resumes get ingested and digested anyway.
    On your first point, yeah, or they'd call security / police. "what's this freakin' weirdo in a suit doing in here? murderer? GTFO"

    And yeah, a resume needs to be good enough to get you a phone screen with HR. That's it's only purpose. Paying someone to write one for you seems like a waste to me.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by CEO; 12-07-17 at 01:56 PM.
    Zip-Tie Alley Racing
    LRRS/CCS #103
    PPS | Dunlop | Boston Moto | Woodcraft & Armour Bodies | 35 Motorsports | Pit Bull | K&N

  11. #36
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    15,036
    iTrader Score
    1 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Recruiters are always something I feel so weary of when job hunting. I've had sooooo much time waisted by them, where I eventually learn the recruiter has been lying the entire time and has NO clout at all with the company or possibly ever even had a real req they were trying to fill in the first place.

    On the other hand, I watch my current boss basically ignore corporate HR when doing searches and deal almost exclusively through an agency when doing outside searches.

    I can tell you the two ways to get an interview at my shop are to know someone here and get referred or get noticed by someone at the agency we contract out to. Not sure anyone here has been hired any other way.

    0 Not allowed!

  12. #37
    Posting Freak BSR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    872
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    I've actually had really bad luck with recruiters. They never produced any results for me, but it may depend on your area of expertise.

    Another problem is the fact that many companies use both their internal resources along with outsourced recruiters and there seems to be some kind of rule where if you apply directly to the organization, the outsourced recruiter is not allowed to work with you. This happened to me MANY times. I was contacted by an outsourced recruiter who in the initial screening asked me if I have applied directly with the organization posting the job. As soon as I answer yes, they drop me like a bad habit explaining that they cannot recruit candidates who have already applied directly. What makes this particularly messy is the fact that you have no way of knowing if a particular organization is outsourcing recruitment. You don't find out until the recruiter calls and tells you so you can't avoid applying directly to those companies.

    It seems you should either work exclusively with recruiters, or apply directly on your own. I wouldn't recommend doing both as the overlap proved to be very problematic for me.

    Edit: After seeing NHBubba's post I will second the time wasting part. Recruiters will indeed waste a lot of your time as that was also a huge issue for me.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by BSR6; 12-07-17 at 02:42 PM.

  13. #38
    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Haven-ish, CT
    Age
    33
    Posts
    635
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    In general, when looking for a job while unemployed, yes it's "cast out a bunch of lines and seeing if you get any bites". Or dealing with recruiters. 2 of my 3 jobs have been because a recruiter found me, and yes they were both a little pushy trying to steer me to accept.

    In the case of the OP, he's already currently employed in a job he likes. He's not desperate to find a new job. He's found one job posting that he really likes and has submitted an application and a resume online. He is asking how to better his chances for this specific position. So bits about contacting recruiters, having the resume rewritten, sending out hundreds of resumes, etc, are irrelevant to him at this point. LinkedIn networking is a good idea.

    1 Not allowed!

  14. #39
    Lifer 01xj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CT
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,192
    iTrader Score
    2 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR302 View Post
    If they're local, it wouldn't hurt to show up in person to hand-deliver someone a copy of your resume. Wear a suit, look nice, mention to the receptionist that you're interested in the position and would like to drop off a resume. Ask for a name and phone number of the appropriate HR person so you can follow up later. If you're lucky, you may get a chance to meet with the HR person or your would-be manager right then.

    I've recently changed from an engineering position to a sales/customer relations position. My boss has been doing it for 35 years, and the point he's been hammering home is that face time with the customer is always good. In this case, you're selling yourself to your potential employer. At the very least, you stand out over however many dozen resumes they receive online.

    If they're not local, then yes, try calling. Good luck.
    My previous job which included some security and reception desk work, every single unsolicited resume went straight to a paper shredder. HR doesnt even accept a paper resume any longer. And there were no meetings with no appointment. It was strictly "we'll get a hold of you", not the other way around.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by 01xj; 12-07-17 at 04:55 PM.

  15. #40
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raymond NH
    Age
    51
    Posts
    4,433
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR302 View Post
    In the case of the OP, he's already currently employed in a job he likes. He's not desperate to find a new job. He's found one job posting that he really likes and has submitted an application and a resume online. He is asking how to better his chances for this specific position. So bits about contacting recruiters, having the resume rewritten, sending out hundreds of resumes, etc, are irrelevant to him at this point. LinkedIn networking is a good idea.

    Spot on, but I am not at all bothered by the other advice and discussion, it's been a very interesting thread for me. I did just dust off my linkedin account and spiffed it up a bit. I also found someone with the same job title as I am applying for at the same company and pinged him.

    2 Not allowed!

  16. #41
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    in my own little world...
    Posts
    9,295
    iTrader Score
    1 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    It might not actually be a bad idea to include your birthday or some shit. 51 isn't 61.
    Do NOT do that. Ever

    0 Not allowed!

  17. #42
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    in my own little world...
    Posts
    9,295
    iTrader Score
    1 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    The fact is most people in professional careers get their jobs through their network not their resume (not that the latter has no bearing.)

    I would recommend in you case reaching out through your network to see if anyone you know, knows a key person at the company you're interested in. If so, there's a good chance you'll be able to get a meeting.

    I highly *do not* recommend dropping by and trying to talk your way past the receptionist, many of us would consider that unprofessional and a bit crude.
    Possibly the most accurate post here.
    Simply applying for positions on job posting on career pages (unless an entry level) is pointless.

    0 Not allowed!

  18. #43
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raymond NH
    Age
    51
    Posts
    4,433
    iTrader Score
    0

    Re: modern day job application advice

    The employer I'm interested in also happens to be a customer of my current employer, but not of products I support, thus I have no reason for any direct contact. I am easily able to get the email addresses and phone numbers of a few of their engineers from our assistance request database, but I did not do so and therefore did not use that information to "network". Can't help but think that would be a big no no...

    0 Not allowed!

  19. #44
    Lifer ilikenapalm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,751
    iTrader Score
    2 (100%)

    Re: modern day job application advice

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    Do NOT do that. Ever
    Again, given the circumstances of him having over 30 years of experience, it could be perceived by HR / whoever is looking at his resume that he is older than he is. That is the only reason I would advocate for including an age.

    Also, your comment about applying for positions on career pages only rings true if you don't meet the minimum requirements for a job.

    0 Not allowed!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •