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Go Back To The Moon ??

  1. #1
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Go Back To The Moon ??


    I am old, I watched the live feed of Neil Armstrong blow his line

    By the 3rd mission of stupid golf balls and riding around no one cared, the last 2 missions were scrubbed because
    of lack of interest. Something like 40 Billion was spent which would be close to a Trillion in today dollars.

    There is nothing to be found

    Mars also a gravity well and hard to leave. The worst day at the South Pole is better than the best day on Mars. The solar winds blew
    away the atmosphere and water a couple of Billion years ago, so its dead. If I showed you a fossil of a Martian Physics Professor
    it still means nothing

    Boondoggle make work project.

    I am not anti science but when trillions need to be borrowed just so some college professor gets a thrill up his leg, I get off the train

    I believe there are quiet a few grandiose projects worth investing, but this NASA isn't one of them

    discuss

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  2. #2
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    No NASA, no Tang

    Case closed

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  3. #3
    Cat herder
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Okay...

    1) The push to go to the moon was politically motivated. So let's get that out of the way. Having said that....

    2) Think of it as an engineering exercise. Huge innovation came out of the whole aerospace push that rippled throughout the economy and echoes to this day. And no, I'm not talking about Velcro... which wasn't even a product of the space race. A few of the more unexpected outcomes are here... NASA -
    Our First Lunar Program: What did we get from Apollo?
    But more to the point, it inspired a generation of engineers... the people who in effect created the world we live in. It also stimulated huge economic activity. "Why are we wasting money in space" ignores the fact that the money doesn't get spent in space. It gets spent here.

    3) Without the mandate to go to the moon, a lot of that innovation and economic activity would not have taken place.

    4) Even so, we learned a lot in the process of getting there... about human biology, the environment in orbit and deep space, about the sun (remember that you have to get outside the magnetosphere to actually observe what's doing on), about the Earth (remote sensing was a direct result of the push to go to the moon). Before we went, we didn't know what was out there. That's the point of research.

    People always ask "Why waste money on science? What good is it in the real world?" That completely misses the point. Through exploration and research, we learn more about how the universe works. We don't KNOW what will come of it before we do it. But throughout history, the ultimate benefits have always dwarfed the costs. Every time. How about research into quantum mechanics that made the computer you're using right now possible? Those scientists had no clue that microprocessors would or could exist. How about fundamental research in chemistry? Every day, most of what you touch is made of synthetic materials. The basic research is what made that possible, but that research never anticipated what might come.

    Should we go back? Yes. Why? Because we need to learn more about how to survive in harsh environments over the long term, for one thing. Because we still know very little about what's actually there, or anywhere in the solar system, for another. All we've done is set foot on the moon a handful of times. Imagine if one of the European explorers had arrived on the beaches of the US, stayed a couple of days, gone back and said "Well, there's beaches like here, some rocks and trees, and people who look strange and talk funny. Not much else. We spent all that money to get there looking for gold and we don't have diddly to show for it. Guess it's not worth going back."

    The argument against research and exploration is always the same and has existed as long as we've had curiosity: that the resources would be better spent on practical matters like feeding people and fighting one another. If that line of reasoning had always held out we'd still be in the dark ages.

    But if you want to bring it back to the practical, I give you, oh, say, mineral resources. Some lunar rocks contain an order of magnitude more titanium than ores here on Earth... Moon Packed with Precious Titanium You might point out (correctly) that we can't economically retrieve those minerals. Yet. At some point we'll need them... once it's cheaper to mine off-planet, we will because we'll have to. But we won't be able to if we don't develop the technologies first.

    Here's another: Helium 3. It's an isotope that does not exist here because the Earth is shielded by the magnetosphere... but it is likely to be found on the moon and elsewhere in the solar system. That has the potential to become the basis for viable nuclear fusion. Think about what a game-changer that would be.

    If we don't go back, we'll never know.

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  4. #4
    Lifer
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    So, it wasn't a hoax?

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  5. #5
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    So, it wasn't a hoax?
    Cue the conspiracy theorists! Betcha this is going to go off the rails before we get to 20 posts. Maybe before we get to 10.


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  6. #6
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    No NASA, no Tang

    Case closed
    exactly, it's not what we did or didn't find on the moon, it's the advances in technology that it took to get there that ended up being used for so many applications that we (the general public, not just the military) use every day

    space exploration is a good investment, not for the exploration, but for the advances in technology that would not be discovered/developed otherwise

    Tang is only one simple example. Modern day braces used to straighten teeth would not be available if it weren't for the need of satellite antennas that needed to be compact at liftoff, and huge in operational mode in space, is another example, there are a million others

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    RandyO
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  7. #7
    Lifer
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
    Cue the conspiracy theorists! Betcha this is going to go off the rails before we get to 20 posts. Maybe before we get to 10.

    At least you weren't defensive

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  8. #8
    Lifer snwbrdr435's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post

    Boondoggle make work project.

    I am not anti science but when trillions need to be borrowed just so some college professor gets a thrill up his leg, I get off the train

    I believe there are quiet a few grandiose projects worth investing, but this NASA isn't one of them

    discuss
    Please the fact NASA gets anything done with the budget they are given is god damn impressive. Funding NASA is far more important then tons of other truly fucking stupid shit our government spends billions and billions of dollars on.

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    Last edited by snwbrdr435; 12-16-17 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    At least you weren't defensive
    Yeah, I don't bother responding to conspiracy theorists. There is absolutely no point and it's just a huge waste of time. Brick wall.

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  10. #10
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Cost of going to the moon in today's dollars (per the OP, haven't checked): Approximately $1 trillion.

    Direct cost of war in Iraq, 2003-2011: $1.06 trillion.

    Cost of Iraq War: Timeline, Economic Impact


    Which yielded more benefit?

    Talk about a boondoggle make-work project....

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  11. #11
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    strangely enuf, it wasn't space exploration that put the GPS constellation in orbit, it was military spending, so that missiles could hit their target

    not all military spending is bad

    think of how many peeps rely on it to know where they are and would be lost otherwise

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    Last edited by RandyO; 12-16-17 at 10:17 AM.
    RandyO
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  12. #12

    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Cost of going to the moon in today's dollars (per the OP, haven't checked): Approximately $1 trillion.
    Hummm.. How about our roads and bridges.. There's a nice engineering project that would help our economy. never mind... to the moon..

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  13. #13
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Until churches are taxed as for profits, then hell yes spend trillions in space. Hell, just shoot rockets full of money up there and blow it up. Still be less of a waste than the "non-profit" status of religions, aka cults.

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  14. #14
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    Hummm.. How about our roads and bridges.. There's a nice engineering project that would help our economy. never mind... to the moon..
    Wouldn't it be amazing if we could explore space AND maintain our infrastructure? We just gave all that potential money to corporations, gift wrapped of course, this week most likely.
    That and a side of nation building gets right in the way.

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  15. #15
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    My pet project would be a very high accuracy lie detector... admissible in court / contracts etc.

    Fusion

    Thorium fission mini electrical generation plants

    Theoretical faster than light

    Cure for some Cancers < govmt funding

    Genetic alteration

    Asteroid exploration for high value materials not in gravity well

    Cure for Liberalism

    etc etc etc

    All better than Eagle Scouts collecting moon rocks, on the mineral front 1st moon mission showed its crust same as Earth

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    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  16. #16
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    cure for liberalism.
    aside from the fact that you type like a first grader, this is why nobody takes you seriously.

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    Cliff's Cycles KTM
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  17. #17
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Ring the ad hominem bell

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    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  18. #18
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    I may be a lunkhead, but in general I get my point across without haiku, limerick, or riddle.
    Unless I’m being a cheeky bastard on purpose.

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  19. #19
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    What horrifies me most about the "trumpism" that has infected this country is that it is suddenly cool to be stupid, ignorant, anti-science.

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  20. #20

    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    What horrifies me most about the "trumpism" that has infected this country is that it is suddenly cool to be stupid, ignorant, anti-science
    Then theirs this little ditty CDC gets list of forbidden words: fetus, transgender, diversity

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  21. #21
    Lifer
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
    Yeah, I don't bother responding to conspiracy theorists. There is absolutely no point and it's just a huge waste of time. Brick wall.
    It was a question, not a statement.

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  22. #22
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Space is important, and may be critical to our long term survival.
    We, as humans, should very much put effort into exploration and expansion.

    By private enterprise means.
    The *Government* should have nothing to do with it (other then getting the hell out of the way)

    PhilB

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  23. #23
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Space is important, and may be critical to our long term survival.
    We, as humans, should very much put effort into exploration and expansion.

    By private enterprise means.
    The *Government* should have nothing to do with it (other then getting the hell out of the way)

    PhilB
    This opinion seems a bit out of character for you.


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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  24. #24
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    This opinion seems a bit out of character for you.
    How so? I don't see anything different there from my usual. I'm curious what you see that's not my normal.

    PhilB

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    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  25. #25
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Go Back To The Moon ??

    He used the wrong font.

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