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NASA means something again

  1. #26
    Lifer virtualbong's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again


    I am not going to read through everyone's arguments but my thoughts to why we continue to put money into exploration is that...

    The human race will eventually exhaust all of Earth's resources and we need to figure out if we can inhabit another planet. Or maybe we want to learn how to avoid exhausting Earth's resources by learning why Mars became what it is now...which looks like a complete dust bowl.

    The greatest trait of the human race is that we have the ability to learn and adapt but I guess for those who feel like there is no good coming out of exporation, it's kind of like those people who are 'comfortable' with their job and don't want to move up the ladder. That's fine I guess but the human race has not come this far from people who just were 'comfortable' with their situation.

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  2. #27
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    maybe I misunderstood your question...

    I thought you were asking about why we are spending money on this.
    There were a couple legitmate answers. Like an idiot though, I was hoping to avoid the rhetoric. How foolish. I can't wait 'til this turns into an Obama v. Bush thing...

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  3. #28
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    I wish we could return minerals from planets and asteroids and use them for something purposeful on Earth but that isn't going to happen until The Enterprise (this one) is up and running (with the logistics to sustain it, too.) The payload issues on the other end are insurmountable. Notice that the lander missions are 1-way missions.

    If there was a way to sell ___ on another planet, we'd have no shortage of funding. Private enterprise would be all over it.

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  4. #29
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    There were a couple legitmate answers. Like an idiot though, I was hoping to avoid the rhetoric. How foolish. I can't wait 'til this turns into an Obama v. Bush thing...
    yeah, I get that at times I sound like a crazy hippy but I know what you mean..

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  5. #30
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    There were a couple legitmate answers. Like an idiot though, I was hoping to avoid the rhetoric. How foolish. I can't wait 'til this turns into an Obama v. Bush thing...
    Bullshit. Show me one piece of evidence of serious partisan squabbling here. Hell, Gadget and I are completely in agreement on this and we can't agree on whether the sun is out.

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  6. #31
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Just to re-enforce what has already been stated. If you want to look at it from a standpoint that justifies the money spent...It's not entirely about the missions themselves, it's about what we learn as we prepare and embark on them. Some pretty amazings things have trickled down from NASA.

    I agree with our drive to explore being one of our greatest traits. That argument doesn't seem to be very convincing to those who object to the spending associated with it though.

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  7. #32
    Lifer NobodySpecific's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    That argument doesn't seem to be very convincing to those who object to the spending associated with it though.
    I think part of the reason for this is the consumer culture we live in today. We have all been trained that when you spend money you get something in return. If you spend money on food, or televisions, or cars, or houses, or guns, or whatever, you get that product in return. When you spend money on war or aid you at least see the manifestations of that money in plain sight. You see food going to hungry people and you see "security".

    A space mission has very hard to quantify returns, however. The benefits come from the cool shit we have to make in order to get there, but you can't make a list of things you're going to make because not all of the problems have been identified. The very best stuff comes when all of those really smart engineers stumble upon something nobody has ever done before, because they WILL find a way to solve it. And there may be 1 or more pieces of that solution that might apply to civilians. There is no "if you spend $x, you will get Y and Z in return". But people are afraid to spend money on the unknown (even though a lot of the money spent is wasted, you can at least be told it will cost $30,000 to install a toilet on the governor's yacht). Some people only see it as $2.5 billion for a buggy that we can't even bring back, and that's a lot for one buggy.

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  8. #33
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by gtutunjian View Post
    - Show me the money: Once we put the Russian Genie back in the bottle, we moved much of our work in space away from public view and NASA, and the public was left with what you describe as mind-numbing. Much of the funding went to unheralded programs.
    - The trickle down from The Space Program is huge. Forget about popularizing Tang, and making headlines with space diapers. GPS. Cellular. (So much computing that I don't know where to start.) Human Aging. Optics. Ceramics/Heat Dissipation.

    A lot of what we use for personal communication and entertainment today is the result of the (eventual) commercial licensing of DoD and related technology put into space and the adaptation of the same technology (only not as precise or as powerful.) We study Earth from space to map currents, map the ocean floor, predict the weather (even in New England) and more. We also target precision munitions, locate missing war fighters and communicate with them to coordinate rescue and much more through the investment in space technology.

    It's easy to lose sight of this (especially since a lot of it happens out of sight and outside of New England, and a lot of it is relatively ancient history.) Cambridge was going to be a major space technology research hub until funding was cut. Work is still conducted at Draper Labs, and there may be non-descript buildings and offices around the area with contracts. A lot of this work has gone to Northern Virginia, Florida, Texas and California. The fact that Estes is still in business shows that rockets and space are still cool (if only to kids!)
    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for a second that nothing good came out of the Shuttle program. I know just the opposite to be true.

    But the Shuttle program, after its initial launch, just didn't capture the imaginations of the American people like the earlier Apollo missions, and much of what occurred during the Shuttles life went completely unnoticed and largely uncared for. Yes we got a lot of benefits from NASA technology, but IMO the Shuttle just didn't have the same appeal to the American people that the earlier programs did, and I would argue that the lack of appeal is also largely why we have continued to cut spending to NASA over the years (even considering the financial collapse).

    The Apollo program inspired kids imaginations, many of who would grow to become the leading engineers of technology that the world has ever seen, and it unified our country into believing in a common cause, and to rally towards it. The Shuttle program has not had the same impact, and our nation is arguably more fractured and polarized than it ever has been before. We need that inspiration, that sense of unity, and that imagination that we once had. If a mission to Mars is the way to go about it, I am fully supportive.

    Just ask a kindergarten class. When the teacher asked them what they wanted to be when they grew up, many kids immediately said "I want to be an astronaut!"

    How many still say that today?

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  9. #34
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    You sir, are very, very wrong.

    Attachment 30946
    exactly

    public benefits of going to the moon and going to mars is the research an development of technologies used every day


    from computers to dental braces

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  10. #35
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for a second that nothing good came out of the Shuttle program. I know just the opposite to be true.
    The Shuttle Program was all about commercial business: How many Boeing satellites could we carry into space to make it remotely feasible to run a fleet (of 4?) That's damn boring (unless you're a Boeing stock holder or the recipient of those sat services) IMHO. There were occassional science projects, too. Small ones. Fixing space telescopes: That was pretty cool.

    Apollo, Gemini and Mercury: All ball busting (and life taking) science applied under harsh conditions. Riveting stuff from start to finish.

    The Air Force continue to launch it's own gear from Vandenburg not without a few mishaps of their own, but they didn't rely on the shuttles.

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  11. #36
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    I think this in a promotion for the new Total Recall movie.

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  12. #37
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    It's all a bunch of bullshit and a waste of money.

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  13. #38
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    It's all a bunch of bullshit and a waste of money.
    That was my last marriage...

    Re A promotion for the new Total Recall Movie...point taken. I'll work on my historical bullshit sharing (and limit it to the inside of my helmet and car. Especially when I wear my helmet in my car.)

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  14. #39
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    No, this is not a faux story. Very cool actually.

    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...y-enters-mars/

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  15. #40
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    This stuff is absolutely incredible. I can't imagine how much time was put into this technology, and then using it in an environment where nobody can actually see the events as they unfold. Mind-blowing.


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  16. #41
    Lifer Billy's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Anyone watching the special tonight at 10pm EST on the science channel? Got that shit set on the DVR just in case I can't watch it.
    http://science.discovery.com/tv-sche...137576.43765.0

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  17. #42
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    This stuff is absolutely incredible. I can't imagine how much time was put into this technology, and then using it in an environment where nobody can actually see the events as they unfold. Mind-blowing.

    New way to solve our trash problem.





    first prototype of how to accomplish this.

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  18. #43
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    Re: NASA means something again

    if it makes you feel any better, the toys i work with cost a lot more and aren't inventing anything, in fact, many are in some ways less capable than their predecessors. (not to say i dont think they are badass and needed, 'cause they are)

    VA class submarine ($3 Billion)
    Heck, Look at the Bush, the new aircraft carrier ($100 billion, WITHOUT airplanes and people, etc.)

    For the sheer inginuity, awe, design brilliance, engineering skill, that price tag is completely worth it.

    You never know what you don't know until you know it. What if we find critters, water, a new element, who the hell knows? There are FAR worse ways to spend that money.

    Im just waiting until someone proves that mars used to look like earth, then watch everyone poop and get REALLY interested about ways off this rock.

    All political, international, religious, whatever opinions aside, when NASA pulls things like this off, the entire world cheers and benefits.

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  19. #44
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Anyone watching the special tonight at 10pm EST on the science channel? Got that shit set on the DVR just in case I can't watch it.
    http://science.discovery.com/tv-sche...137576.43765.0
    I am now...thank you

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  20. #45
    Senior Member Bkilm's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Dont get me wrong, I love all of the debates and political conversations going on recently... but everytime i see a new one start i have to look at the window to make sure theres no snow on the ground.... if this is how summer is this year i cant wait for the winter shit show to arrive

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    Anyone here ever had to do an emergency figure "8"?
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  21. #46
    Lifer NobodySpecific's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkilm View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I love all of the debates and political conversations going on recently... but everytime i see a new one start i have to look at the window to make sure theres no snow on the ground.... if this is how summer is this year i cant wait for the winter shit show to arrive
    Did you happen to notice that we are in the heat of the presidential election season? It's just a guess, but maybe that has something to do with all of the political discussions. The only thing that is worse than these political discussions is people complaining about how the next discussion is going to turn political without realizing they are the first to say something about it, which generates a discussion on how the discussion isn't turning political, which inevitably results in the previously non-political discussion turning political.

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  22. #47
    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by idratherberidin View Post
    We went to the moon AND came back. Nothing has come back from Mars except for radio waves.
    Give it time. They're working on a mission that will return Martian soil/rock samples to Earth. Lunar exploration started with nothing but radio waves coming back too. Difference is, Mars is a bit further away, which complicates matters just a little...

    Quote Originally Posted by idratherberidin View Post
    People benefited from Columbus's travels within a very SHORT time. It'll be decades if not more before the same can be said from exploring Mars.
    How did the common man benefit from Columbus's travels so quickly? It was about three-quarters of a century before any successful settlements sprang up in North America, and a lot longer till it really became a viable place for people to move their families to.

    As for Mars -- maybe it will prove to be beneficial, maybe it won't. But without exploring it we would never know.

    Edit: I've been specifically referring to the act of exploring only, not to the ancillary benefits of the technology developed for the purpose. That's been well covered by other posters.

    --mark

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  23. #48
    Lifer R1's Avatar
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    Its science.

    Go fuck yourself san diego.

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  24. #49
    Senior Member Bkilm's Avatar
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkilm View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I love all of the debates and political conversations going on recently... but everytime i see a new one start i have to look at the window to make sure theres no snow on the ground.... if this is how summer is this year i cant wait for the winter shit show to arrive
    Quote Originally Posted by NobodySpecific View Post
    Did you happen to notice that we are in the heat of the presidential election season? It's just a guess, but maybe that has something to do with all of the political discussions. The only thing that is worse than these political discussions is people complaining about how the next discussion is going to turn political without realizing they are the first to say something about it, which generates a discussion on how the discussion isn't turning political, which inevitably results in the previously non-political discussion turning political.

    NO WAYY!! elections are coming up? Thankyou for turning over that rock i lived under for 4 years

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    Last edited by Bkilm; 08-06-12 at 02:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    Anyone here ever had to do an emergency figure "8"?
    Quote Originally Posted by KawiSmurf View Post
    Yah, I was being chased by bee. He was too quick to lose on the first u-turn, but I ditched him on the second one.

  25. #50
    Lifer
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    Re: NASA means something again

    Quote Originally Posted by snwbrdr435 View Post
    Wasn't it $2.5 billion over 8 years? That's what a couple weeks of DOD budget.
    Thank you, someone else realizes that this was not a check for 2.5 billion dollars, it was only like $312 million dollars a year.

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