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OK - who won the debate?

  1. #1
    Lifer Karaya One's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?


    Paul Begalla and James Carville said that Kerry blew Bush away.

    However, Rush and Howie Carr said that Bush just destroyed him.

    And on checking the RNC and DNC websites, each one is crowing over their respective victory.

    Who really made the best impression?

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    Putting his hands in the air, like he just doesn't care.
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    Lifer SEVENSGT's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Kerry made a great impression on my when he said 'are troops are in iraq fighting without the proper equipment' yeah huh well then why did you vote against any bill with more money for the armed forces???

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    Super Moderator legalspeed's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Bush was ferciferous last night.

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  4. #4
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    As per the norm, both camps will say they won the debate (barring some major gaff by either side of course). Honestly, I could see both men's points, both spoke well. I really don't think there was a clear cut decided "winner". Bush needs to not make faces during Kerry's comments, as that was sure to put some people off (he really looked funny when he was doing it). Kerry needs to start the debate as relaxed and confident as he was at the end (He was very shaky in the beginning).

    In the end, I don't think that debate had a clear cut winner, I can see both men's points, and neither had any major slipups. It was good presidential debating, but very little bloody red meat... Then again, it was the foreign policy debate, and the guy who has dignitaries from around the world staying at his ranch for the weekend usually has the advantage on topics like these. I am curious to see the next debate (domestic issues) since I think my boy has an edge there, but its going to be a format that Bush is much more comfortable with, again it should be good watching.

    And much during the debate makes it much more fun

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  5. #5
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    People forget the reason so many people voted AGAINST the 87 Billion $ bill for our troop is that it was filled with

    $70 billion of PORK BARRELL SPECIAL INTEREST stuff

    Not to mention most of Congress knew that Bush lied or had false information on the war in the first place.

    He lied to Congress about taking the country to war as a last resort, he misled us about the WMD, he misled the troops about calling it a Victory, but in fact more troops die every month than the month before since that announcement.

    I don't think either of them WON anything.

    I want to hear about jobs, security here at home, our deficit, and yes when we will stop pissing people off in the world.

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    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    I think Kerry cleared up why he voted the way he did, how he would do things differently in office and where the president's hard lined "Do everything one way even if we learn new facts" is faulting.

    Bush had some good jabs in there as well. I still loved it when Kerry slammed Bush using his own father's words.

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  7. #7
    the phear hohum's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by snowborder
    He lied to Congress about taking the country to war as a last resort, he misled us about the WMD, he misled the troops about calling it a Victory, but in fact more troops die every month than the month before since that announcement.
    See this is what the debates are about, giving each side their "talking points"...

    Originally posted by snowborder
    I want to hear about jobs, security here at home, our deficit, and yes when we will stop pissing people off in the world.
    Thats the next debate, stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channell

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  8. #8
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    I would also agree with (GASP!!!) hohum regarding the outcome of this particular debate. I did not see a clear-cut winner. My wife said that she was somewhat embarassed watching both men because neither was a great speaker. Bush looked tired and Kerry looked very nervous, at first. Both were way too repetitive, Bush with continually pointing out Kerry's mixed signals and Kerry repeating the "bringing together of the international community" thing.

    But, I still must say that I cannot trust Kerry at all. He just does not appear to me to be a very honest guy. Bush, however, seems to speak from his heart and with conviction, even though he repeated himself too much.

    Anyway, as the political junkie that I am, I look forward to the next one. Hopefully, there will be more substantive information.

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  9. #9
    Lifer
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    OK - who won the debate?

    I don't really think either one of them "Won".

    Both got their points across well. They both tried to do a little name calling and failed IMO. But I was glad to see that the name calling was minimal, and they didn't get worked up over it.

    I think the main thing is they have pretty different approaches to foreign policy and they both presented their approaches well. They both seem to have inconsistencies in their approaches though.

    Bush - Go it alone on Iraq despite UN, rely on allies to assist with Iran & North Korea???

    Kerry - We should have stuck with the rest of the world on Iraq, but we should basically go it alone on North Korea???

    Bush - We shouldn't join an international court
    Kerry - We should join an international court

    This stuff about the international court was surprising that it wasn't talked about more after the debate. This is something people will disagree on. IMO not joining an international court makes us look like goons. If we go capture Saddam or whoever and try them without making ourselves accountable it is a bit odd.

    Bush's basic premise seems to be america first, we don't need to work with others, but with inconsistencies around certain problems.

    Kerry's basic premise seems to be to work with other countries, but with inconsistencies around certain problems. If Kerry had said we should continue the 5/6/whatever party negotiations with N. Korea I would have given him the win on this.

    Bush sounded a bit flustered a couple times but that is his basic way he speaks, no big deal. When he repeated the "my opponent is inconsistent" line for the 2nd or 3rd time it sounded fairly weak and desperate. Kerry's rebuttal of that accusation sounded more succinct and well practiced.

    I didn't hear anything from either of them that would make a Kerry supporter jump the fence and vote for Bush or vice versa. Hard to say if this debate had any effect on someone who is truly undecided.

    I hated Bush's facial expressions and some of his mannerisms. It makes him sound like he is laughing at the world. I wish he would work on that. He just doesn't look serious sometimes. The word that popped into my head was "glib".

    Ben

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  10. #10
    ultrabuddy twrayinma's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by benVFR

    I didn't hear anything from either of them that would make a Kerry supporter jump the fence and vote for Bush or vice versa. Hard to say if this debate had any effect on someone who is truly undecided.
    to be perfectly honest, i can't imagine ANYTHING someone could say to convince a kerry or bush supporter to switch allegiance at this point.

    part of the reason this whole election season pisses me off... it's pointless. the majority of people have made up their mind, and we just have to sit through another month of vitriol.

    god bless america.

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  11. #11
    Member ducatiboy's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    I only watched the debate for a few minutes, but I was "surprised" to hear Kerry say "I'll kill them" ??? dood has anger issues, don't vote for him

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  12. #12
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    here are my thoughts on last night..

    I think that both guys did an outstanding job last night. IMO it was a tie...I can't say one side did a better job then the other...both had great arguements and good follow ups. That being said I had to score this one a win for Kerry.....but the stakes he had were much higher then W's.

    Kerry had to go out last night and show that he can hold his own against the president...show that he is very clear on his plan...and can be strong. For him it was all about how he came across...I don't think Kerry could have done a better job...but I still don't feel I know anymore about him or his plan other then...NOW it is the opposite of W's and the he could "do better"

    I think W made some great points about our coallition and N. Korea...he showed that he is in fact dealing with those problems and not ignoring them... The comments he made about how do you expect to form a great coallition while undermining the mission, troops and alliences in place already was outstanding...along with the work we are doing with China to deal with N. Korea...

    Kerry made some good points also...very strong critisism for our president...but I just do not beleive he has the right answers....I beleive he is playing a lot of Monday morning quarter back and has no real substance in his arguements....he has told us no details and has no way to gauge whether his way would in fact be the better way. I think he is in a pre-9/11 mind set and wants to deal with terrorism in a policing action kind of way and I just do not beleive that will work...this kind of mind set has failed since 1972 and has made the situation worse...

    All in all...it was great TV and Kerry got the job done... His goal was to keep his campaign alive and he certainly did so last night. I don't think anything last night will make or break the election...I do see that Kerry has narrowed W's lead a little....

    I really liked how they laughed in the middle and was light-hearted at times and not just plain nastly to each other...I like that even though there were some tough comments it stayed positive pretty much the whole night....

    This is going to be a close election...

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  13. #13
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by snowborder
    People forget the reason so many people voted AGAINST the 87 Billion $ bill for our troop is that it was filled with

    $70 billion of PORK BARRELL SPECIAL INTEREST stuff

    Not to mention most of Congress knew that Bush lied or had false information on the war in the first place.

    He lied to Congress about taking the country to war as a last resort, he misled us about the WMD, he misled the troops about calling it a Victory, but in fact more troops die every month than the month before since that announcement.

    I don't think either of them WON anything.

    I want to hear about jobs, security here at home, our deficit, and yes when we will stop pissing people off in the world.
    you amaze me more and more with every post lol

    Ya all pork barrell stuff..lmao

    "He lied to Congress " if by lying you mean sharing the same intel he was privy to then ya he lied..lol

    Last resort..ok..the what would the last resort be?...another attack...

    It was a victory...that was when we stopped fighting against Iraq...qhy is this concept so hard to grasp for you libs...

    "I want to hear about jobs, security here at home, our deficit, and yes when we will stop pissing people off in the world."

    Ahh...here we go.. you want to here what the country will do for you ..too make your life better....

    1st if not the presidents responsiblity to create jobs...he is only to provide an environment where the economy can flourish...and he is doing that...but it doesnt happen over night...

    He talked about security at home...werent you listening?

    We will always piss people off..that is a fact of life....no one getws a long with everyone all of the time..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  14. #14
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    He lied to Congress about taking the country to war as a last resort, he misled us about the WMD
    I have to take MAJOR issue with this statement because Congress all looked at the same intel and voted accordingly. Stop getting your news from Michael Moore!!!!!

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  15. #15
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    This is why we all have an opportunity to vote.

    You are entitiled to your little opinions and I am entitiled to mine.

    So, if you are amazed try reading the facts then what you hear on Channel 9 news.

    I never even saw that stupid movie.

    WHERE ARE THE WMD??????? can you answer me that. Pffft.

    And yes he lied to Congress with the Intel that GW's appointed guys made up and presented.

    And why did we protect the Oil Ministry Building and not known weapons areas? Because they knew there were'nt any.

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  16. #16
    I Dance With Will
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by benVFR


    I hated Bush's facial expressions and some of his mannerisms. It makes him sound like he is laughing at the world. I wish he would work on that. He just doesn't look serious sometimes. The word that popped into my head was "glib".

    Ben
    smirk? the reason i didn't like the guy in the beginning. you question whether he has something to hide or not.

    i think Bush can't recognize the mistake? or just can't admit it? if he did would that make him weak as a leader? not necessary.

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  17. #17
    Freak Posting snowborder's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    and so did the rest of us. Don't you feel a bit betrayed by this?
    Yeah, and if we assume for a moment it was a lie, Kerry went right along with it.

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  18. #18
    I Dance With Will
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by Mystery Squid
    Yeah, and if we assume for a moment it was a lie, Kerry went right along with it.
    i like to see Kerry say he supported the President in the beginning, but when the truth comes out or there is no truth he's looking to make the right change like he use to do.

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  19. #19
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    If I was Iraq, I sure as hell wouldn't cooperate with anyone if I knew the US was comin for us no matter what.


    I think Kerry went into enough detail about what he plans to do compared to Bush's "We will continue doing what we are going no matter what changes".

    Bush appeals to testosterone and Texans. Kerry, while not a hell of a lot better, appeals to people who think just a bit more.

    I think Kerry did a fine job. I want to see Bush put down his dad like Kerry did.

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  20. #20
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    So, if you are amazed try reading the facts then what you hear on Channel 9 news.
    I can't even get Channel 9 through my satellite service.

    My point to you was in reference to the same crap that has been parroted over and over by the partisan pundits that misleads people like yourself. The intel was put together by U.S. AND foreign sources. Even France and Germany contributed to the intel that you are claiming was a part of Bush's big lie. Do you really think that Bush, KNOWINGLY, lied to everyone around him just so that he could send our troops to war??????? And, what purpose would that serve???? Do you really think that the decision was an easy one?????

    GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!

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  21. #21
    I Dance With Will
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    OK - who won the debate?

    one other point if i remembered correctly. there was an interview afterward by Wolf Blitzer -CNN with the former General Frank?, i think, who supports the president. the general agreed that the US didn't have the capacity to wage 2 wars at the same time.

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  22. #22
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by Mystery Squid
    No. Not in the least.

    Here are summaries of the two philosophies each candidate subscribes to.

    Kerry:

    Find proof first, make us believe you're a threat to us, then we'll deal with you, along with a union of other nations.


    Bush:

    We know you hate us, we know you've tossed SCUDS at Israel, and that you've gassed your own people, we're not going to sit around and wait for you to prove you're a REAL theat to us by setting off a dirty nuke in Times Square.


    What gets me is how your side cries for 'PROOF! PROOF! WE NEED PROOF FIRST!'

    I can only wonder how your side would have viewed the "proof" UBL was an imminent threat pre-9/11.

    Bush is like Jesus to some people.

    Sides. I love sides. I'm on the "I hope we get killed by terrorists" side I guess.

    Israel? Someone is shooting scuds at Israel? Then who should attack Iraq. ISRAEL. God damn people.....

    Bush submitted the request for the UN resolution. He then learned it would not pass. He then withdrew it and went in alone with Britan with a tiny amount of troops from other countries.

    You can not convince me that he did everything possible to avoid this war.

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  23. #23
    God Cam_In_IL's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Kerry was the better speaker, as was expected. Bush seemed to get unraveled and somewhat pissed off at times. A lot of what Kerry had to say lacked substance. He never talked about HOW he plans on implementing his goals.

    I'm anxious to see what both have to say about the economy.

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    Yup.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    Originally posted by Mystery Squid
    Yeah, and if you do in fact think, you'll see, like a lot of people are, just how much of a gelatinous candidate Kerry is. I trust him even less after yesterday's debate.

    Then I guess you'll know how I feel about the president of my country right now when Kerry gets swarn in.

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  25. #25
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    OK - who won the debate?

    good thread.... GREAT thread

    i have no other comment as i'm a stupid american (kidding) & dont have the means to follow politics via TV (work) nor the motivation to do my own research

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