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Question for the electricians (NH)

  1. #1
    Just Registered wylee's Avatar
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    Question Question for the electricians (NH)


    I'm buying a new washer and dryer and moving them out of my basement. The current dryer is on a 10/2 line and has a 3 prong plug. I want the new plug upstairs to be the new four prong type, but the main panel does not have separate neutral and ground buses.

    I know the ideal solution would be to upgrade to a 200 amp main with separate buses, but can I legally run a new 10/3 line and attach the neutral and ground wires in the main panel to the same bus?

    Any other ideas of how to proceed without upgrading the main panel?

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    Last edited by wylee; 03-03-08 at 01:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Lifer burnham's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    What you propose is the way I do it every day, there is nothing wrong with the ground and neutral being terminated at the same bus of the main panel. Just don't put them under the same screw. It would be different only if you were going to a sub-panel, or in a trailer. The 10/3 four prong setup is to give you an insulated neutral, and a totally separate path for the ground wire. When you connect the four-wire cord to the appliance, there should be a small copper jumper that connects neutral and ground located behind the access panel. Remove that jumper, it's no longer necessary with 4 wires and leaving it installed defeats the purpose.

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  3. #3
    Just Registered wylee's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by burnham View Post
    What you propose is the way I do it every day, there is nothing wrong with the ground and neutral being terminated at the same bus of the main panel. Just don't put them under the same screw. It would be different only if you were going to a sub-panel, or in a trailer. The 10/3 four prong setup is to give you an insulated neutral, and a totally separate path for the ground wire. When you connect the four-wire cord to the appliance, there should be a small copper jumper that connects neutral and ground located behind the access panel. Remove that jumper, it's no longer necessary with 4 wires and leaving it installed defeats the purpose.
    Thanks!

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  4. #4
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Under normal circumstances, would any current flow in the 4th (neutral) wire in a 240 volt circuit? Thinking it's just another ground wire, in this application, and I can't fathom why it's even necessary. What's the purpose of it?

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  5. #5
    Just Registered wylee's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by stoinkythepig View Post
    Under normal circumstances, would any current flow in the 4th (neutral) wire in a 240 volt circuit? Thinking it's just another ground wire, in this application, and I can't fathom why it's even necessary. What's the purpose of it?
    The fourth wire is a ground only; if it's carrying current, there is a problem. The problem with the 3 wire setup is the neutral wire is not isulated and there is no ground. In theory the dryer cabinet could become energized with the three wire setup...I read an example of it happenning but can't remember the exact circumstances.

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  6. #6
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by stoinkythepig View Post
    Under normal circumstances, would any current flow in the 4th (neutral) wire in a 240 volt circuit? Thinking it's just another ground wire, in this application, and I can't fathom why it's even necessary. What's the purpose of it?
    In a lot of dryers only the heating element requires 240V. The rest of the electrical items like the drum light, controls, and drive motor run off of ground referenced 120V lines. With 3 prong 240V outlets, the uninsulated ground wire acts as the return for the 120V components which defeats its purpose of being a non-energized safety connection. The 4 wire outlet gives you an insulated common to carry the 120V return load so the ground connection is not energized.

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  7. #7
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Ah, both explanations make sense. Cheers.

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  8. #8
    KB KB's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Sounds like potugese to me.

    KB

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  9. #9
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by rmbbikes View Post
    Sounds like potugese to me.

    KB
    That's because I am Portuguese!

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  10. #10
    Posting Freak KevinB's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    In a lot of dryers only the heating element requires 240V. The rest of the electrical items like the drum light, controls, and drive motor run off of ground referenced 120V lines. With 3 prong 240V outlets, the uninsulated ground wire acts as the return for the 120V components which defeats its purpose of being a non-energized safety connection. The 4 wire outlet gives you an insulated common to carry the 120V return load so the ground connection is not energized.
    So guess what would happen if you had a poor neutral/ground connection on a 3 wire system. Nothing, until you touch the dyer and then bingo you complete the circuit.

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    Last edited by KevinB; 03-04-08 at 09:18 PM.

  11. #11
    Just Registered Wishbone's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Black is the owwy wire

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  12. #12
    KB KB's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by fasterthanu View Post
    Black is the owwy wire
    That is the one that makes you speak portugese!!

    KB

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  13. #13
    Just Registered wylee's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the electricians (NH)

    Quote Originally Posted by fasterthanu View Post
    Black is the owwy wire
    Black = ouch
    Red = tickle - fuck! that's ouch too
    Black + Red =



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