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Snow tires....

  1. #301
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....


    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I’m about to order up a set for the hatch.


    I have a set of steelies and snows for the cx5 too I’m planning on listing f/s as soon as I get off my rear.
    Text me size and price

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  2. #302
    Lifer 01xj's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Iím about to order up a set for the hatch.


    I have a set of steelies and snows for the cx5 too Iím planning on listing f/s as soon as I get off my rear.
    Send me a pm with the price and some pictures when you get some free time. I might take them.

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  3. #303
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    The R3 SUV has Aramid sidewalls, supposed to be stronger than the R2 SUV we have.

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  4. #304
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    I'm leaning towards Nokian studless (R3 or LT3) but I can't seem to get off the fence re: studded/studless.

    I'm in and out of Boston daily, with one daily stretch of poorly maintained backroads. Weekends up in ski country with some regularity.

    Not sure I can justify the increase in noise and decrease in performance for most of what I'm likely to do.

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    Last edited by Tricky Mike; 11-13-19 at 08:26 AM.

  5. #305
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Okie Dokie....I've got a set of Hakka R2's in 205/65R15 that were on my A4. A4 went kaput, wife is now rolling a Golf Sportwagen and doesn't drive in the snow.

    Hakka's are up for sale, they have about 5k miles on them, very little wear. I can grab some pictures if anyone is interested. $200 and they're yours.

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    Last edited by loudbeard; 11-13-19 at 09:17 AM.
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  6. #306
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    205/65R15? Is that correct? Sure it isn't a R16?

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  7. #307
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    205/65R15? Is that correct? Sure it isn't a R16?
    Yep, 15" wheel is correct.

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  8. #308
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Mike View Post
    ...but I can't seem to get off the fence re: studded/studless.
    I had the same debate. Studded are better on ice and hard packed snow. They don't offer any appreciable advantage in loose or slushy conditions. They are not as good as studless on dry roads and are noisier to boot.

    How much of your actual driving will be in extremely icey or hard packed conditions? For me, ice is rare and most roads are pre-treated so you don't end up with hard packed snow. Primary roads are usually mostly dry several hours after a storm passes. For those reasons, I went studless.

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  9. #309
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Thatís what chains are made for yo!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  10. #310
    Lifer LuvDog's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    I have the Hakka 9 studless on m truck. Theyíre great but honestly I liked that R2 that I ran on my old truck better. I think these will wear better but the old R2 stuck to everything.




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  11. #311
    Resident Turkey Tricky Mike's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Thanks guys. Looking like studless is the right choice for me. I see occasional ice, but it's just that. Occasional. The rest of the time I'd likely see no benefit to the studs.

    I also remind myself that I'm moving from a baseline of all-weather tires (with tens of thousands of miles of wear) to a set of Hakkas. Studs or not it should be a massive improvement.

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  12. #312
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    This is one of those times when I think Randy is right. Studs are only really appropriate for situations where you are on dirt/gravel roads a lot. If you are on maintained paved roads like most of us in southern NH/metro Boston area then studless is the way to go.

    Honestly quality all-seasons are probably good for most of us most of the time. Its that 2-4 storms you get caught in each winter where you wish you had left 30 minutes ago but didn't and do not really want the countless oh-shit moments where snows pay for themselves.

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  13. #313
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Can't beat General Arctic Altimax for the money. I put a set on all my cars. The icing on the cake was then I bought a set of used wheels that had Nokians on them, which at the time were the tires all the VW enthusiasts said you had to have. Swapped them out to the General's the next season and it was a very noticeable difference - the General's were much better.

    Its also very easy to pull into a town fair tire and just buy a set for internet prices.

    I'm in the chain gang now.

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    Last edited by JettaJayGLS; 11-13-19 at 11:51 AM.
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  14. #314
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Studs, 'cause my driveway turns out onto a steep, gravel hill that is not town maintained, and the road after that, while 'town maintained' still has nasty hills that multiple times in the winter are sketchy AF. Studs are not enough of a detriment on dry pavement to outweigh the 5 or 6 days a year that I'm not making it up my road without them.

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  15. #315
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    I actually have valuable info so here goes. I sell and install hundreds of sets of snows a year. I live where there is deep snow, hills, dirt roads, and icy roads that don't get treated. My customer mix is 70% studded, 25% studdable tires without studs, 3% studless, 2% "all seasons". The pavement out front is currently snow covered despite being plowed and salted, as it was in the single digits overnight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    Studded are better on ice and hard packed snow.
    The studless are close or better if they're newish and it's glare ice or HARD snow. Studless wear fast due to the ultra soft compounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    (Studded) don't offer any appreciable advantage in loose or slushy conditions.
    Strongly disagree. StuddABLE tires (whether the studs are in or not) have a much more open tread pattern that displaces water, slush, and mud better than the densely packed studless tread. Also chews through snow more than a few inches deep better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    (Studded) are not as good as studless on dry roads and are noisier to boot.
    Agreed. I find the stud noise incentivizes people to take them off ASAP, usually adding a year to their service life. Folks tend to forget about May that they have studless on, and eat them up throughout the summer, with the attendant fuel mileage loss as well.

    Everybody has different needs and driving situations. I try to ask a lot of questions before recommending anything.

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  16. #316
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Mike View Post
    Thanks guys. Looking like studless is the right choice for me. I see occasional ice, but it's just that. Occasional. The rest of the time I'd likely see no benefit to the studs.

    I also remind myself that I'm moving from a baseline of all-weather tires (with tens of thousands of miles of wear) to a set of Hakkas. Studs or not it should be a massive improvement.
    Reports like this demonstrate that except in a narrow band of conditions, friction tires often outperform studded tires nowadays.

    Selected Conclusions:

    1. Studded tires produce their best traction on snow or ice near the freezing mark and lose proportionately more of their tractive ability at lower temperatures than do studless or all-season tires.

    2. The traction of studded tires is slightly superior to studless tires only under an ever-narrowing set of circumstances. With less aggressive (lightweight) studs being mandated, and with the advent of the new “studless” tire, such as the Blizzak, since the early 1990s, the traction benefit for studded tires is primarily evident on clear ice near the freezing mark, a condition whose occurrence is limited. For the majority of test results reviewed for snow, and for ice at lower temperatures, studded tires performed as well as or worse than the Blizzak tire. For those conditions in which studded tires provided better traction than studless tires, the increment usually was small.

    3. The precise environmental conditions under which studded tires provide a traction benefit are relatively rare. The maximum frictional gain (in comparison to nonstudded (not studless) tires) is found for few studded tires on smooth ice, where they have been shown to provide up to 100 percent gain in certain tests. However,the relative frictional gain of studded tires diminishes or becomes negative on roughened ice, as the temperature drops, as the studs wear, or if the comparison is made with studless tires.

    and

    10. Tractive performance of studded tires is sensitive to stud wear. Studded tires may lose more of their tractive ability over time (from stud wear) than studless tires. When stud protrusion diminishes to 0.024 in. (0.6 mm), the frictional effect from the studs becomes negligible. Tire tread wear (on studded tires) has relatively little frictional effect if stud protrusion is maintained at 0.039 in. to 0.043 in. (1.0-1.1 mm).

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  17. #317
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    I actually have valuable info so here goes. I sell and install hundreds of sets of snows a year. I live where there is deep snow, hills, dirt roads, and icy roads that don't get treated. My customer mix is 70% studded, 25% studdable tires without studs, 3% studless, 2% "all seasons". The pavement out front is currently snow covered despite being plowed and salted, as it was in the single digits overnight.


    The studless are close or better if they're newish and it's glare ice or HARD snow. Studless wear fast due to the ultra soft compounds.



    Strongly disagree. StuddABLE tires (whether the studs are in or not) have a much more open tread pattern that displaces water, slush, and mud better than the densely packed studless tread. Also chews through snow more than a few inches deep better.
    Interesting.

    I wonder if your conditions are different enough from what many of us in the Boston metro area see. For my use I felt the General Altimax snows I had on my VW were aces. I was so happy with those tires I bought them again when the first set wore out without shopping around. They were not studded and I would not even consider a studded tire for my driving.
    Truth told around here most of the roads are clear most of the time. Our plow crews work very quickly and pour tons of salt on the roads. It is usually a matter of hours before the roads are down to bare pavement; in town, on the interstate, back roads, you name it. Our roads are also generally flatter.

    My opinion is that studs are massive overkill and not worth the noise, wear, etc here.

    Now I'm looking at the photos and trying to make sense of your point re: open tread pattern. I'm also noticing that my usual go-tos-General Altimax-are considered "studable". Is that an example of an "open" tread pattern?
    What is an example of a "studless" tire with a less open tread pattern?

    I have a feeling the customer breakdown would be reversed, studdless to studded if you were to relocate down my way. Would you disagree?

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  18. #318
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    Strongly disagree. StuddABLE tires (whether the studs are in or not)...
    I was going after the fact that the studs don't add to your traction in those environments. I agree that tread patterns make more of a difference in loose conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    Folks tend to forget about May that they have studless on
    My Hakkas were quieter than the worn all-seasons I had before. The only reminder that they were on in dry conditions was under moderate to hard acceleration they would get squirrely due to the soft compound.

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  19. #319
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    What is an example of a "studless" tire with a less open tread pattern?
    I'd submit the Michelin Ice-X tires as a less open pattern:


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  20. #320
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I wonder if your conditions are different enough from what many of us in the Boston metro area see.
    I have a feeling the customer breakdown would be reversed, studdless to studded if you were to relocate down my way. Would you disagree?
    I strove to be clear with my disclaimer, my road conditions are night and day different from any urban area South of central VT. I'm as thrifty as they come, but all my vehicles and family ones too are on studded tires. Necessary for when the Snow Hits The Fan. Not to RandyO it up, but tire chains are still a part of my arsenal.
    I agree fully the mix is opposite. I would hope it's not 70% all seasons and 2% studs, but then again I do hear about these highway pileups and wonder.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Now I'm looking at the photos and trying to make sense of your point re: open tread pattern. I'm also noticing that my usual go-tos-General Altimax-are considered "studable". Is that an example of an "open" tread pattern?
    What is an example of a "studless" tire with a less open tread pattern?
    Check these Michelins, almost no area between the tread. Other studless are similar. To me studless are like a roadracing rain tire, the blocks have to be large and close together because they're so soft. Another analogy is that studless in my area is like a trials tire in mud. Pictures can be misleading, the contrast or angle can make a tire look more/less aggressive.
    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...odel=X-Ice+Xi3
    Open tread-
    https://www.discounttiredirect.com/b...hoCuSUQAvD_BwE

    General changed the Altimax. The old Altimax Arctic was a good tire, the new Arctic 12 has a closer pattern to make it quieter and longer lasting. Great if you're into that. I'm all about not getting stuck and staying out of oncoming traffic.

    Without sounding too old mannish, the last few years have seen much more freezing rain and slush than powdery snow. Studs for the ice, studdable open tread tire to avoid planing up on 3" of slush. Works good for greasy dirt roads or actual mud that's less than 6" deep.
    And while we're at it, I tend to -1 on aspect ratio and wheel diameter to get a narrower tire for winter. 225/55R17 summer becomes 205/65R16 winter. These giant wheels with 50 series or lower are retarded for snow tires.

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  21. #321
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    I'd submit the Michelin Ice-X tires as a less open pattern:

    I’m leaning towards these for general winter driving.

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  22. #322
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Reports like this demonstrate that except in a narrow band of conditions, friction tires often outperform studded tires nowadays.

    Selected Conclusions:
    tell you what, studs make all the difference in the world on a motorcycle. car rubber hasn't made it's way to motorcycle tires yet

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  23. #323
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I’m leaning towards these for general winter driving.
    They are always rated well overall for winter tires and seem to be some of the best when the roads are dry. I'm contemplating trying them on my wife's Sonata if I can source a decent set of wheels for it. I've never regretted buying Michelins for any of my vehicles.

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  24. #324
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    I strove to be clear with my disclaimer, my road conditions are night and day different from any urban area South of central VT. I'm as thrifty as they come, but all my vehicles and family ones too are on studded tires. Necessary for when the Snow Hits The Fan. Not to RandyO it up, but tire chains are still a part of my arsenal.
    I agree fully the mix is opposite. I would hope it's not 70% all seasons and 2% studs, but then again I do hear about these highway pileups and wonder.//
    The Washington state article points out that studs wear fast, and that worn studs are less effective. No dog in the fight, no way studs work for metro Boston, where we are usually on cleared pavement. Lots of people who travel mostly on snow-covered roads prefer studs.

    Nokians used to have substantially deeper treads than the others. Now Blizzak has also done so. The X-Ice have less tread depth, which makes them very civilized but don't seem to last as long.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 11-13-19 at 07:11 PM.

  25. #325
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Snow tires....

    I have Falken Wildpeak on my truck. They have the gratuitous snowflake insignia on the side, so I assume they identify as suitable snow tires. They are definitely a harder compound than the snows I've had in the past, but their wide open tread configuration definitely works well in standing water/slush/snow. I've really only ever had to engage the magic 4x4 switch once and that was at a stop sign on a steep(er) hill during a heavy snow.

    In my conversations with a tire guy once (Cooper tires rep) he made the statement that most tires sold on new cars are not suited for New England. The tires shipped on cars are designed for low noise and ride, completely geared for a test drive. But they are typically very narrow siping, especially along the edges where you need water and snow to push out through. He stated that these tires, although designated all season, hydroplane easily and push snow instead of pump it through. From my experience, he was right with his assessment. The Continentals that came on my wife's SUV were quiet but always had issues on anything but dry roads. They had almost a complete outer belt of rubber, little to no siping. I replaced those when due with Yoko Geolander AT and it made a world of difference. So based on that, I think all seasons actually designed for all season use would suit most people. Snows are nice, especially with the soft rubber and even wider spacing. But let's face it, the improvement is marginal and most people out there do not need any more of a false sense of security when driving in poor conditions. Many can't stay on the road with clear skies and dry pavement.

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