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Let's talk trucks

  1. #401
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I have 2 vehicles, old classics that are worth far more than I would have imagined, insured with progressive, full coverage, under/uninsured motorists with 100/300k limits and it’s $220 every 6 months for both. That’s with a clean record for the 10 years.
    Progressive couldn’t even come close to matching my bike policy from ForeMost

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  2. #402
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Well then. If I was in the market for a new half ton truck I would have a hard time not opting for the diesel. Pretty crazy numbers all around.

    2018 Ford F-150 Power Stroke Diesel First Look: Lionhearted - Motor Trend

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  3. #403
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Over 100HP down from the 3.5 EB? Regardless of its potential 30MPG rating, that's a big drop in power for towing through the hills that you get to pay extra for.

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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    Over 100HP down from the 3.5 EB? Regardless of its potential 30MPG rating, that's a big drop in power for towing through the hills that you get to pay extra for.
    Who cares about hp? It's a truck with a 10 speed auto. I'd rather have low rpm torque all day. If you use it as a daily pavement pounder... Sure. The gas engine prolly makes more sense.

    I'd venture to argue that with a boat load of low rpm torque and the 10 speed you don't need horsepower..

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  5. #405
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    I'd venture to argue that with a boat load of low rpm torque and the 10 speed you don't need horsepower..
    That would be true if you are comfortable always being in the climbing lane while towing something heavy or having to bury the pedal to merge onto a highway.

    Opposite of you, I think this engine will be interesting for people who don't tow or tow relatively light loads due to how efficient they claim it is. Towing 11.4K with it will likely be unpleasant compared to the much more powerful ecoboost.

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  6. #406
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    11.4k towing out of a half ton?! What a world we live in..
    Wasn't that 1-ton territory like a week ago?

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  7. #407
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    Well then. If I was in the market for a new half ton truck I would have a hard time not opting for the diesel. Pretty crazy numbers all around.

    2018 Ford F-150 Power Stroke Diesel First Look: Lionhearted - Motor Trend
    priced beyond my pocket. Christ, I am in the market for a new truck ( or a good used ) and the prices = mortgage. WTF and when did they get so expensive.

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  8. #408
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    When we were specing out a Transit 250 at work, buyers were staying away from the diesel in droves. The EcoBoost was thousands less expensive (think the Delta for diesel was $5,000 over the stock V6 and $2,800 over the EcoBoost), Towing capacity was similar, and while the EB was not quite as efficient gasoline is usually cheaper than diesel these days. We only drove those trucks 18-20,000 miles a year and the numbers did not work.

    Pickup market may be different, though. Lots more hats than cows....

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  9. #409
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    11.4k towing out of a half ton?! What a world we live in..
    Wasn't that 1-ton territory like a week ago?
    What's comical is the 3.5EB can pull more than this new diesel version. You also give up 135hp and 50ftlbs for the luxury of dealing with a diesel. No thanks. The RAM diesel sounds like a turd too.

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  10. #410
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    To be fair, the Dodge and Ford 3 liter diesels are designed for economy over performance. I was hoping Ford would do a scaled down super duty diesel more akin to Nissan's 5.0 Cummins offering.

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  11. #411
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    That would be true if you are comfortable always being in the climbing lane while towing something heavy or having to bury the pedal to merge onto a highway.

    Opposite of you, I think this engine will be interesting for people who don't tow or tow relatively light loads due to how efficient they claim it is. Towing 11.4K with it will likely be unpleasant compared to the much more powerful ecoboost.
    At first your claim seemed unreasonable...

    I researched a bit and now it makes sense. Yeah. The diesel would shine with fuel economy. Otherwise the ecoboost outperforms it pretty much everywhere else. Huh.

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  12. #412
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    With the amount of extras the diesels have to carry these days, I'll stick with gas.

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  13. #413
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    11.4k towing out of a half ton?! What a world we live in..
    Wasn't that 1-ton territory like a week ago?
    I think my 11 year old 3/4 ton is rated for 14.2k. I've read that it'll tow 20k with ease and I don't doubt it.

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  14. #414
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    As awesome as this seems the initial price is going to kill it. Where as this is going to cost more then the 3.5 eco boost.
    I’m dealing with this with budgeting out a Colorado.
    The awesome Zr2 with the diesel is a small fortune. Where as a regular zr1 is waaaay cheaper. For the extra upchrge for the off-road package. A normal z71 with the diesel can almost be had. Plus the diesel gets nearly 30 mpg. I drove one at my old dealership and loved it. But for this kind of coin. You can walk out with a really nice Silverado. But with an 80 miles commute I’m left conflicted and lean towards the 4 banger car.

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  15. #415
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    With the amount of extras the diesels have to carry these days, I'll stick with gas.
    We had two Chevy Cruze Turbodiesels and a Cruze Eco, exact same car except a 1.4 gas turbo. The TD is back in the new Cruze, but a different engine: ours were VM Motori 2L made in Germany, with an Aisin 6 speed auto.

    The TD’s averaged better mpg, but because of the higher cost of diesel, the operating cost difference was absolutely minimal (if we included the cost of DEF, might have been higher). The TD’s cost $3,000 more and we had both of them in for service due to emissions system problems. That didn’t cost us anything because the emissions warranty is 100K but was inconvenient. The dealers were up on servicing them.

    The one area where they shined was range. They would go 5-700 miles per tank, so as a practical matter they only fueled up once per week. We scheduled an impromptu drag race in an industrial park and they were about the same.

    Summary: wouldn’t buy a light duty diesel again due to purchase cost, fuel costs, carrying 4+ gallons of DEF and emissions problems. When it came to buying a work van with towing capacity, we bought EcoBoost 3.5.

    If you need 500+ lb ft of torque, diesel rules.

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  16. #416
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Have a few friends that have bought and relatively quickly moved on from their EcoBoost F150s. Different people having issues that were IMO issues that someone shouldn't see with a less than 75k mile vehicle and the fact that Ford did nothing to help them with the issues makes me question just how good the EcoBoost is as a motor.

    That being said, all manufacturers have their issues with a small subset of their vehicles. Do I think the F150 with the EcoBoost is garbage? No but knowing that people that take care of their equipment have had issues directly related to the motor and not the rest of the vehicle make me hesitant to jump on the bandwagon.

    To Bill and Christian's point though this thing sounds like it would be mint for me. Great fuel economy out of a truck that has torque all day long sounds like my kind of truck. I don't tow heavy ever but I do like, for the most part, driving a truck and the way diesel engines make power is preferred by me over how gas engines do it.

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  17. #417
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    Have a few friends that have bought and relatively quickly moved on from their EcoBoost F150s. Different people having issues that were IMO issues that someone shouldn't see with a less than 75k mile vehicle and the fact that Ford did nothing to help them with the issues makes me question just how good the EcoBoost is as a motor.

    That being said, all manufacturers have their issues with a small subset of their vehicles. Do I think the F150 with the EcoBoost is garbage? No but knowing that people that take care of their equipment have had issues directly related to the motor and not the rest of the vehicle make me hesitant to jump on the bandwagon.

    To Bill and Christian's point though this thing sounds like it would be mint for me. Great fuel economy out of a truck that has torque all day long sounds like my kind of truck. I don't tow heavy ever but I do like, for the most part, driving a truck and the way diesel engines make power is preferred by me over how gas engines do it.
    Our company has been buying fords for the last 15 years. They buy based on price, today and donít care about future costs, for whatever reason, I will never figure out. Once the 36k mile warranty expires, all of them have started to fall apart and repair costs added up quickly. I canít believe what an absolute piece of shit the current f150 I Drive is.. itís really that bad. 2016 with just over 16k on it with countless issues already.

    People were saying 3-4 years ago the eco boost would be plagued with issues, as ford has never had a good reputation with anything turbo. Sounds like itís following in the footsteps of their triton engine line, which were garbage to say the least.

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  18. #418
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I think small di turbo gas engines are a recipe for issues. I think Toyota with their 5th injector May be the only reasonable answer I’ve seen or heard of.

    Give me a naturally aspirated V8 and a gazillion gear transmission. Thanks.

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  19. #419
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Two different markets for the F150 diesel and the Eco Boost.

    The Ecoboost will appeal to the hp junkies who also want fuel economy and the diesel will appeal to people who value the towing experience and longevity over peak hp.

    Same thing with the Titan XD. Gas motor is more powerful than the diesel version and the diesel isn't exactly a fuel miser in that truck.

    Anybody who thinks the towing experience will suck with the F150 diesel doesn't remember what it used to be like to tow with older trucks. The hp war has made people soft. Try towing 5k with an old Chevy 350 with a 4 speed that was basically a 3 speed. You actually had to plan things.

    Towing with any modern truck is cake in comparison. The powertrains aren't the limit anymore, it's the frames, suspension and brakes that make the biggest difference in the towing "experience" now.

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  20. #420
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Ford diesels? From Jalopnik.

    A class action lawsuit was filed against the Ford Motor Company and supplier Bosch on Wednesday alleging that the former installed emissions defeat devices in its diesel F-250 and F-350 trucks, causing them to produce up to 50 times more oxides of nitrogen than allowed by law. This should sound familiar by now.
    Jeep & Ram?

    OnDecember 2, 2016, Plaintiffs’ counsel, based on the same type of expert testing and investigation conducted in this case, filed a class action alleging that FCA’s DodgeRam and Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesels were exceeding emissions standards and producing emissions beyond that a reasonable consumer would expect to be produced by “Eco” vehicles. On January 12, 2017, essentially confirming the work of Plaintiffs’ counsel, the EPA issued a Notice of Violation to FCA because it had cheated on its emissions certificates with respect to its Dodge Ram and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 01-11-18 at 05:37 AM.
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  21. #421
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    OK, I'm back at it, a bit sooner than I wanted but so it is. Stacy's Honda Fit is on at the point where I'm not putting another dollar other than gas into the thing. It's beat to shit, has a salvage title, and has a ton of miles. Now it needs $500 worth of brakes, so fuck it, going to get what I can for trade and move on with life. I'm fairly certain we're going to go with this '03 Tacoma. I bought my previous Taco here and the guy is good to deal with and has a nice little cottage business rebuilding Toyota's with shitty frames. Basically this one has a new frame, all new suspenders, ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, etc. It's $12.5k and we'll probably pay pretty close to that, I think I got my last one for $500 less than asking price.

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  22. #422
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Our company has been buying fords for the last 15 years. They buy based on price, today and don’t care about future costs, for whatever reason, I will never figure out. Once the 36k mile warranty expires, all of them have started to fall apart and repair costs added up quickly. I can’t believe what an absolute piece of shit the current f150 I Drive is.. it’s really that bad. 2016 with just over 16k on it with countless issues already.

    People were saying 3-4 years ago the eco boost would be plagued with issues, as ford has never had a good reputation with anything turbo. Sounds like it’s following in the footsteps of their triton engine line, which were garbage to say the least.
    Mark, your dislike of Ford is legendary. I have one question for you - why would an "absolute piece of shit" be the best selling vehicle on the planet for the last 40 years in a row? Everyone is stupid? Evaluating an entire line based on the performance of a low end work spec model is not really objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    OK, I'm back at it, a bit sooner than I wanted but so it is. Stacy's Honda Fit is on at the point where I'm not putting another dollar other than gas into the thing. It's beat to shit, has a salvage title, and has a ton of miles. Now it needs $500 worth of brakes, so fuck it, going to get what I can for trade and move on with life. I'm fairly certain we're going to go with this '03 Tacoma. I bought my previous Taco here and the guy is good to deal with and has a nice little cottage business rebuilding Toyota's with shitty frames. Basically this one has a new frame, all new suspenders, ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, etc. It's $12.5k and we'll probably pay pretty close to that, I think I got my last one for $500 less than asking price.
    110k miles for a Tacoma is nothing, it's barely broken in. If the frame replacement job was done well, that's a solid truck for many years to come.

    However, something in me just doesn't like paying 13.5k OTD for a 15 year old truck with a replaced frame and a puny V6 motor. You are paying a hefty premium for the legend than the actual car to be honest.

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  23. #423
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Mark, your dislike of Ford is legendary. I have one question for you - why would an "absolute piece of shit" be the best selling vehicle on the planet for the last 40 years in a row? Everyone is stupid? Evaluating an entire line based on the performance of a low end work spec model is not really objective.
    Same reason Walmart stores are so successful, price! Americans for the most part, buy based on price, what's it going to cost me today. You would think being the #1 selling brand truck for so long, it would be the #1 brand still on the road, but it's not.

    Our company puts the trucks they want, option for option, out to bid. Ford is always cheaper by thousands...and the price difference per truck, is usually in the thousands. Toyota oddly, was the closest in price this last round, but still a couple thousand higher than ford.

    As for work spec vs higher end, frame, body, optional drive train, etc, it's all the same. My dislike for ford comes from driving them for the past 15 years...and thankfully not owning and paying for the repairs on any of them. What I did pay for on my own, was a AAA membership. When the shitbox would break down, I got home faster using my AAA towing, than with my boss calling a tow service...that would also give him the best price. I would just tow it to my house, and have the company come pick it up.

    Ive owned 1 ford in my life, it was a 1979 f150. I drove it for a month before the 302 V8 exploded, leaving me stuck on the side of the road. My uncle and I pulled out the motor and transmission, brought it to the scrap yard and sold both for $11.00. Went to the local junk yard and bought a chevy 350 and automatic transmission for $125.00 and put it in the ford. Drove it for a few years before selling the whole truck. Never again

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  24. #424
    World Trackday Champion xxaarraa's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Same reason Walmart stores are so successful, price! Americans for the most part, buy based on price, what's it going to cost me today. You would think being the #1 selling brand truck for so long, it would be the #1 brand still on the road, but it's not.

    Our company puts the trucks they want, option for option, out to bid. Ford is always cheaper by thousands...and the price difference per truck, is usually in the thousands. Toyota oddly, was the closest in price this last round, but still a couple thousand higher than ford.

    As for work spec vs higher end, frame, body, optional drive train, etc, it's all the same. My dislike for ford comes from driving them for the past 15 years...and thankfully not owning and paying for the repairs on any of them. What I did pay for on my own, was a AAA membership. When the shitbox would break down, I got home faster using my AAA towing, than with my boss calling a tow service...that would also give him the best price. I would just tow it to my house, and have the company come pick it up.

    Ive owned 1 ford in my life, it was a 1979 f150. I drove it for a month before the 302 V8 exploded, leaving me stuck on the side of the road. My uncle and I pulled out the motor and transmission, brought it to the scrap yard and sold both for $11.00. Went to the local junk yard and bought a chevy 350 and automatic transmission for $125.00 and put it in the ford. Drove it for a few years before selling the whole truck. Never again
    I'll take your word on Ford's aggressive fleet pricing, but come on Mark, up until very recently, ALL American cars and trucks were cheaply made pieces of lard. I don't buy that Silverados or Colorados or whatever the equivalent of the Ford lineup is significantly pricier or well made.

    American cars have just - and by just I mean as recently as 3-4 years ago - turned the corner on build quality. Sit in any pre-2014 American car and tell me its not cheaply made.

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  25. #425
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Mark, your dislike of Ford is legendary. I have one question for you - why would an "absolute piece of shit" be the best selling vehicle on the planet for the last 40 years in a row? Everyone is stupid? Evaluating an entire line based on the performance of a low end work spec model is not really objective. ///.
    He hates old people, too!

    Although we’ve had good luck with GM, we coughed up for a ‘16 Tahoe because the ‘15’s had issues. And in our work fleet, the brand with the highest repair costs was - Honda. Not one vehicle of any brand we owned had any problems for the first 100,000 miles, and most of the expensive problems came at over 150,000, so that’s when we sold them.

    Cars are a bigger disappointment than women.

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