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Let's talk trucks

  1. #676
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post
    Fuck this generation of "small" trucks. I can't see how they justify the pricing, and can't believe people are willing to pay it.

    I currently have 11 Colorados sitting on my lot... They're all 4wd, and range from $36,800 to $47,00. At $36k its got nothing. At $47k its still got a gas motor.

    For shits and giggles, I just did a hypothetical build of a Colorado ZR2 with the baby Duramax... Dusk Edition with Nav and the bed mounted spare tire carrier... $52,775... Are you fucking kidding me? I didn't pay anywhere near that for my limited production TRD-Pro Tundra.
    Yeah, that blows my mind. I got my 1500 Silverado LTZ ZR1 Realtree Edition far less than that. Mind boggling.

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  2. #677
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Guessing part of it aligns with people paying more for things just because they live in the city. .

    Want groceries in the city they cost a little more. Buy clothing in the city they cost a little more. Buy a "truck" that you can still drive and park in the city costs a little more.

    On top of that are the people that "just want" a smaller "truck" and are willing to pay a premium for that smaller "truck"

    I'm with most of you guys though. Why the hell would I pay more for less vehicle? I'll figure out how to drive and park the full size truck thanks.

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  3. #678
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    I don't disagree with you that the weight distribution math works out, but Subaru N.A. gives a specific tongue limit that makes it no bueno. From a 2006 Outback owners' manual:

    • Maximum gross trailer weight, 3.0L engine: 3,000lbs
    • Maximum gross trailer weight, other engines: 2,700lbs
    • Maximum tongue trailer weight, all engines: 200lbs

    Taken from here. This is why I ended up with a trailer and not a bigger Subaru...

    I'm not worried about the weight of the bike making the suspension too low -- I'm worried about the weight of the bike tearing the hitch carrier off of the subframe if you hit a big bump at speed.
    And here’s a UK tow site showing the same vehicle with 4,400 lb capacity.

    Towing CapacitySubaruOutback 3.0 R

    This is a matter frequently discussed on Subaru forums. I’m perfectly comfortable with the WR back there, but rented a trailer for a 414lb bike as the Harbor Fright hitch rack I have is not as robust as the rest of the system....

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    Last edited by Garandman; 03-07-18 at 12:56 PM.
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  4. #679
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Assuming the connection point at the unibody is steel-steel, and you don't exceed the fatigue limits with the imposed moment you should never have a problem. # of cycles has no impact on steel unlike some other metals. Is a bouncing 200# bike going to create too large of a moment? No fucking idea. There are also probably an infinite number of load paths in unibody vehicles, so something unexpected could become overstressed and cause issues. All in all it just doesn't seem like a good idea.
    The hitches have steel plates underneath, and steel reinforcements that go inside the beam they attach to.

    As mentioned, we have a hitch carrier and a hitch rack along with two 3,000+ lb boats, which we’ve been using for more than 10 years. We have no intention of conducting destructive testing, though the car has been rear-ended twice.

    In the case of the Outback, you can got to one of several popular sites and read many similar reviews.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 03-07-18 at 01:05 PM.
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  5. #680
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    And here’s a UK tow site showing the same vehicle with 4,400 lb capacity.

    Towing CapacitySubaruOutback 3.0 R

    This is a matter frequently discussed on Subaru forums. I’m perfectly comfortable with the WR back there, but rented a trailer for a 414lb bike as the Harbor Fright hitch rack I have is not as robust as the rest of the system....
    Can you find a UK owners manual that says the same? I couldn't, though I only looked briefly.

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  6. #681
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    I'm not worried about the weight of the bike making the suspension too low -- I'm worried about the weight of the bike tearing the hitch carrier off of the subframe if you hit a big bump at speed.
    That tongue weight limit is not because of the strength of the hitch, it's due the unweighting of the tow vehicle front wheels when the trailer goes over a bump while braking in a corner (and momentarily increases the tongue weight 3-fold+) and how that adversely affects handling precisely when good handling may be needed most. There's a massive difference between a trailer trying to wag the dog on a bumpy corner under braking and a 300lb static weight sitting on a hitch in the same corner. I would not sweat tongue weight, it's a purposely conservative static rating for a dynamic load that can be substantially higher.

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  7. #682
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    The hitches have steel plates underneath, and steel reinforcements that go inside the beam they attach to.

    As mentioned, we have a hitch carrier and a hitch rack along with two 3,000+ lb boats, which weve been using for more than 10 years. We have no intention of conducting destructive testing, though the car has been rear-ended twice.

    In the case of the Outback, you can got to one of several popular sites and read many similar reviews.
    Sounds like they handle it quite well then.

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  8. #683
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I researched it 11 years ago.....

    US tow ratings are weird. We bought our first Outback because the tow rating on the Passat wagon at the time was zero. I didn’t believe the dealer: called up VWOA and they confirmed it. Our 2011Ford Transit Connect van was also rated zero although they are frequently used as tow vehicles in Europe.

    Pertinent to trucks Toyota pushed an initiative to adopt the SAE J2807 spec for tow rating. But Ford and GM, the 800 and 700 lb gorillas in the pickup market, declined to go along. So everyone comes up with their own standards. When towing keelboatsf (because you were towing to regattas 200 to 2,000 miles away) the rule of thumb for longevity was one half the rated tow capacity.

    Our Tahoe, based on the Silverado chassis, is a joke as a passenger vehicle but tows really well. Well instrumented, decent range, integrated brake controller, 5.3 has sufficient power for 6,000 lbs, etc.

    The Outback has been the best-selling wagon in the country since 1997 or so. If anyone is interested in what you can or can’t tow, you can find many threads on sites like SubaruOutback.org. Just did a search in the Gen IV section and there are over 300 threads related to towing. The “Proof by performance” is simply that many, many people are towing up to the international #’s with little issue. Personally, I wouldn’t tow much of anything with a 2.5L Outback and tell everyone who will listen not to buy them.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 03-09-18 at 06:26 PM.
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  9. #684
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post

    For shits and giggles, I just did a hypothetical build of a Colorado ZR2 with the baby Duramax... Dusk Edition with Nav and the bed mounted spare tire carrier... $52,775... Are you fucking kidding me? I didn't pay anywhere near that for my limited production TRD-Pro Tundra.
    i started pricing TRD tacos and even a TRD pro taco. for similar price i can get a DCSB TRDOR tundra with a 5.7. looks like ill be schlepping the current sr5 taco for a few more years though before i drop the coin on a tundra

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  10. #685
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Personally, I wouldn’t tow much of anything with a 2.5L Outback and tell everyone who will listen not to buy them.
    I never heard your warning before purchasing my 2013. I love the car and have had no problems towing my bass boat, motorcycle trailer, or the hitch rack being discussed here, with my standard transmission and taking it easy...however, I owe you a large thank you for staying on top of all things Subaru, because solely as a result of your posts here, I decided to take a shot and have my dealer perform the oil consumption test (that must be done before 100k miles) when mine had 99,200 miles on it. According to the results, mine sucks down a quart of expensive synthetic 0w20 every 600 miles, and now I’m getting a brand new short block installed at no expense to me. Thanks, Garandman and NESR rules!

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  11. #686
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    And heres a UK tow site showing the same vehicle with 4,400 lb capacity.

    Towing CapacitySubaruOutback 3.0 R

    This is a matter frequently discussed on Subaru forums. Im perfectly comfortable with the WR back there, but rented a trailer for a 414lb bike as the Harbor Fright hitch rack I have is not as robust as the rest of the system....
    how bout tongue weight ?

    doesn't really matter much if you have the power and braking to pull more weight, if you don't have the suspension to handle the tongue weight

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  12. #687
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    I //..now I’m getting a brand new short block installed at no expense to me. Thanks, Garandman and NESR rules!
    Glad to hear it worked out.

    “Secret warranties” are way more common than most people realize, whether it’s Ford or Honda paint, Toyota brakes, Chrysler timing chains, Subaru 2.5 oil consumption, or others. Sometimes it’s a manufacturer’s effort to maintain good will, but it is usually in response to a threatened or filed class-action lawsuit. There seem to be law firms making a living on them.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 03-12-18 at 12:25 AM.
    1975 BMW R90/6 | 2008 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS | 2009 Honda CRF100F | 2009 Yamaha TrailWay 200 | 2012 Yamaha WR250R | 2016 Honda CB500FA | 2016 Suzuki GSX-R750

  13. #688

    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    now I’m getting a brand new short block installed at no expense to me.
    how the F did that happen!?

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  14. #689
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    how the F did that happen!?
    More or less assembly line style, at least so far, since so far all I have is a promise...Sounds like they’ve done quite a few. I asked the service manager how many of the standard transmission 2013 models fail the consumption test, after he said standards seem to use more oil...his answer? “All of them”

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  15. #690
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    More or less assembly line style, at least so far, since so far all I have is a promise...Sounds like they’ve done quite a few. I asked the service manager how many of the standard transmission 2013 models fail the consumption test, after he said standards seem to use more oil...his answer? “All of them”
    Interesting. I would have thought the standards would have less chance of burning than the automatics. My guess was break in was a large contributor but I guess not.

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  16. #691
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    My friend was told the excessive oil consumption of his manual was due to engine braking.

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  17. #692
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    In all fairness, I didn’t ask him how many 2013 CVT cars fail the test. The answer could very well be “all of them” to that question too, especially since my car has been babied, relatively speaking, and it failed the consumption test with flying colors

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  18. #693
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    contemplating keeping the 16 taco i leased.
    options:
    -keep it and payments go up ~$120 (6yr loan)
    -get a new SR5 like i have and my payment stay about the same (3yr lease)
    -trade up for a TRDOR taco for ~$50 a month (3yr lease)
    -trade way up for a TRDORCMSB tundra for ~$150 more per month (3yr lease)

    new vehicles obviously come with higher reg fees and mine already has a car starter. thinking ill just keep mine and try to keep the mileage low.

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  19. #694

    Re: Let's talk trucks

    cmsb = crew max short bed?

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  20. #695
    TWINS! xrocket21's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks


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  21. #696
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    contemplating keeping the 16 taco i leased.
    options:
    -keep it and payments go up ~$120 (6yr loan)
    -get a new SR5 like i have and my payment stay about the same (3yr lease)
    -trade up for a TRDOR taco for ~$50 a month (3yr lease)
    -trade way up for a TRDORCMSB tundra for ~$150 more per month (3yr lease)

    new vehicles obviously come with higher reg fees and mine already has a car starter. thinking ill just keep mine and try to keep the mileage low.
    Never buy out a lease unless you're prepared to write a check for the pay-off amount. Financing a lease payoff is a loser every single time.

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  22. #697
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post
    Never buy out a lease unless you're prepared to write a check for the pay-off amount. Financing a lease payoff is a loser every single time.
    FIFY

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  23. #698
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    MB will be selling an upmarket Nissan truck in Europe. Not exactly a rebadged Frontier, but close.

    2018 Mercedes-Benz X-class Pickup First Drive | Review | Car and Driver

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  24. #699
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    it would never sell here 'cause, "Fer dat much money, you can gets an eff-un-fiddy."

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  25. #700
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    FIFY
    Every single time?

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