Let's talk trucks

[GixerJockey]

My problem with the 2nd hand truck market is there seem to be two choices:
- A stripped, beat to hell work truck that has 200k on the clock and looks like it was driven by someone who hated their boss
- A loaded, 4x4 quad-cab, mini-bead with blue tooth, ipad dash, interstellar radio, air conditioned seats and integrated ball scratcher.. for $40k

Those choices suck. There's no fresh, off-lease reasonably optioned choices. I completely understand why people go new.

I am after option #2. I'd be happy if I could get it under $40k, but I'm not scared of the price tag for a loaded, 2 year old truck.

Talk to me after you've had a factory ball scratcher. Priceless! Those shitty aftermarket units just don't get the job done.

[Falko]

Had a friend with the aftermarket version. Never could get it tuned right. Chief One Nut will never live it down....

[e30addict]

Buy new. Who wants a pre-owned ball scratcher? Sounds like a sure ticket to visit camp itchy scratchy for a a few months.

[GixerJockey]

Buy new. Who wants a pre-owned ball scratcher? Sounds like a sure ticket to visit camp itchy scratchy for a a few months.

Depends on who previously owned it...


Degsy - yes
Stoneman - NO

[sandman]

Depends on who previously owned it...


Degsy - yes
Stoneman - NO

its true they are hard to find but there are some out there.

i order a new duramax every few years and the old ones usually sell fast.

no ball scratchers on mine, but they usually have low miles, leather and are really well cared for.

Ask Degsy he's seen several of them.

fwiw: The 15 came in last week, so the 2011 should be ready to go this week.

It will be around $44k has brand new tires and is still under factory bumper to bumper warranty.

[SRTie4k]

Diesel usually adds a few thousand to the cost of most vehicles. The payback can be a few years, depending on how much you drive, but it will also have a higher resale value, so that narrows it a bit. When I bought my '07 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, they were all priced more than a Hemi version, even ones with many more miles on them!

The break even point when stepping up from the 3.6L V6 to the EcoDiesel in the JGC is 12-15 years. I calculated it out when we were looking into JGC's. From the Hemi to the EcoDiesel is slightly less, but still at least 6-8 years IIRC (stepping up from Hemi to EcoDiesel is $2500-3000 I believe). That's not including DEF into the equation.

FWIW, the 3.6L V6 in the JGC tows up to 6500lbs. I haven't towed that much, but it didn't even flinch towing 2500lbs when I went and bought pellets.

Also keep in mind that Jeep does not have a good history with diesels...the diesel Liberty wasn't exactly a show stopper. I'd be surprised if a used diesel in the JGC carried a worthwhile premium over a gasser in 3-4 years.

[caddydaddy]

The break even point when stepping up from the 3.6L V6 to the EcoDiesel in the JGC is 12-15 years. I calculated it out when we were looking into JGC's. From the Hemi to the EcoDiesel is slightly less, but still at least 6-8 years IIRC (stepping up from Hemi to EcoDiesel is $2500-3000 I believe). That's not including DEF into the equation.

FWIW, the 3.6L V6 in the JGC tows up to 6500lbs. I haven't towed that much, but it didn't even flinch towing 2500lbs when I went and bought pellets.

Also keep in mind that Jeep does not have a good history with diesels...the diesel Liberty wasn't exactly a show stopper. I'd be surprised if a used diesel in the JGC carried a worthwhile premium over a gasser in 3-4 years.

DEF is cheap at around $5 a gallon and it'll last about 750 miles per gallon, so that's not even a concern.

Jeep has not made the diesel engines it has used. The Liberty 2.8L was made by VM Motori, and was troublesome. BUT, the 3.0L that is in my 2007 GC was made by Mercedes-Benz and is a very proven and reliable motor. The new Ecodiesel is made by VM Motori, like the Liberty diesel was, but from what I've heard, they got this motor right. The only problems people seem to be having are with the emission control equipment.
For occasional light towing, I'm sure the 3.6 gasser is fine, but for frequent towing, I'd take the Hemi, or Diesel if you want the MPGs.

[OneCheekRider]

The main issues with the 2.8L in the Liberty are resultant from Jeep "tweaking" it for US EPA regulations and customer perception. The EGR (enforced by the EPA) is a rocker killer as it introduces too much soot into the motor. They slapped on a US spec gasoline torque converter which couldn't handle the additional torque from the engine. And finally they used ceramic glow plugs that heat up quickly (no wait to start) but were prone to break off into the engine. These are solved by an engine tune to restrict EGR use (and get up to 200+hp/364+tq) or complete EGR removal (should be done to all diesels IMO), the use of the proper Euro-spec torque converter that was designed for the engine, and steel tipped glow plugs.

People overseas do not have these common issues that are experienced in the US, due to Jeep's cost cutting to try and "sample" the small diesel market here. Very popular and reliable motor overseas and can be made reliable here in the states...not to mention it has a tow rating of 7,000lbs overseas (5,000 here). Yes, Jeep's track record isn't perfect, but at least they're trying. It's nice to see GM/Chevy get into it with the new Colorado.

I'd gladly pay more for a diesel just because it suits my driving style better...but I'm also someone who keeps a vehicle for 12+ years and racks up the miles.

[Stoneman]

Depends on who previously owned it...


Degsy - yes
Stoneman - NO

You KNOW you want to...

[scottieducati]

FWIW, I only opted for the SUV because I don't have room to park a truck + gf's car in our driveway. That said, my Touareg diesel has been phenomenal aside from current CEL for EGR related stuff. Seems diesel emissions stuff will have issues regardless of brand, but overall I am very happy with it.

[xrocket21]

FWIW, I only opted for the SUV because I don't have room to park a truck + gf's car in our driveway. That said, my Touareg diesel has been phenomenal aside from current CEL for EGR related stuff. Seems diesel emissions stuff will have issues regardless of brand, but overall I am very happy with it.

That's weird you are having sensor issues and a check engine light on a VW, you must have got a random bad one.

[Chippertheripper]

I laughed.

[scottieducati]

That's weird you are having sensor issues and a check engine light on a VW, you must have got a random bad one.

Yeah, she's never let me down nor suffered drive-ability issues thing sucks!

The only thing that frustrates me with VWoA is not them itself, but the fact that ALL of their motors here are specially designed for the N.A. market and our emissions laws and the diesels have to be messed with the most. Naturally they're going to have issues, but it seems in the past years they've kept most issues confined to the completely overkill emissions regulations we have placed on consumer diesels. Oh and guess what, the same issues with DPFs and EGRs are on ALL makes of diesels. If you want to find a place to direct your ire, perhaps it should be directed to emissions regs that don't make any sense in the long term and often ignore the costs passed to owners once the vehicles are out of OEM warranty (they "amortize" vehicles over 5 years).

[SRTie4k]

DEF is cheap at around $5 a gallon and it'll last about 750 miles per gallon, so that's not even a concern.

That's an extra $5 per fill up, which is an extra 10% at the pump for the JGC (our 3.6L JGC is $50 to fill up). That's pretty significant, and definitely is a concern.

[Tricky Mike]

That's an extra $5 per fill up, which is an extra 10% at the pump for the JGC (our 3.6L JGC is $50 to fill up). That's pretty significant, and definitely is a concern.

I haven't found that to be the case. I have a 5 gal DEF tank that I have filled 1.5x in about 17K miles.

[SRTie4k]

I haven't found that to be the case. I have a 5 gal DEF tank that I have filled 1.5x in about 17K miles.

That's based on his own math. I have no idea how long DEF lasts, which is why I didn't originally factor it into the payoff calculation.

[caddydaddy]

I haven't found that to be the case. I have a 5 gal DEF tank that I have filled 1.5x in about 17K miles.

What vehicle is this? The Jeep Ecodiesel DEF tank is 8 gallons and owners claim up to 1,250 miles per gallon of DEF. I've heard you can get the DEF at truck stops for as low as $2.50 per gallon.

[Tricky Mike]

What vehicle is this? The Jeep Ecodiesel DEF tank is 8 gallons and owners claim up to 1,250 miles per gallon of DEF. I've heard you can get the DEF at truck stops for as low as $2.50 per gallon.

2014 F350.
You can get it at most truck stops, but I'd recommend avoiding the pumps that use the same nozzle for Diesel and DEF. I don't know for sure, but I've heard that diesel in the DEF tank is no bueno. It seems likely that there would be some residual diesel in the line/nozzle. Maybe the big rigs have large enough DEF tanks so that it's diluted and not a concern?

[dontpanic]

...my Touareg diesel....

The one with the V10 that can tow a 747?

[Rada]

[scottieducati]

The one with the V10 that can tow a 747?

Almost got a V10. Opted for the V6. Latest CEL may be motivation to go for Moar power though...

[maxim_X]

I considered the tuoareg v10. Nice truck for towing by any measure. But I figured if I want to tow to pensiltuky no where and that has a problem what are the chances of me finding a shop to take it. I had the same reasoning for not buying another X5 or rangerover or cayenne. It's something to consider.

[GixerJockey]

Someone talk me into... or out of...


THIS:

2013 / 2014 ROUSH Off-Road Raptor


I have located a slightly used one, locally. A 2012 with 27k on the clock.

[Paul_E_D]

Are those kind of gains even practical for the tranny and rear end? (Yes, I did just say tranny and rear end in the same sentence).

[e30addict]

Looks like a 7/8th scale small penis truck.