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Let's talk trucks

  1. #1226
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks


    What do you have? I know you got the raptor but what else?

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  2. #1227
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Cliff Notes: Unless you are towing heavy loads for high miles, not worth it.

    We had two Chevrolet Cruze turbodiesels in our fleet, plus a Cruze Eco, the identical car with a 1.4l gas turbo. We bought the different versions so we could compare operating costs Head-to-Head. They were fleet cars so we kept maintenance and fuel logs.

    The TD’s had a 2l turbodiesel made by VM Motori, who also makes the V6 TD used by Jeep and others. They did not pull the bullshit VAG did and added DEF to pass emissions. (The new Cruze Diesel has a 1.6L TD)

    The TD’s cost $3,000 more. In 0-60 acceleration they were exactly the same as the gas car. They got better mpg than the gas car, but only enough to cover the higher cost of diesel fuel and DEF. The biggest advantage was highway mpg, which could top 50mpg. Second was long range: I drove from Peobody to Philadelphia to Laurel, MD and stopped in NJ in sight of N.Y. for fuel: 707 miles and I still had 2.5 gallons left (diesel is much cheaper in NJ). We started them as low as -12 F with no problems.

    The disadvantages were very long warmup in cold weather: they had an auxiliary electric cabin heater. The DEF tank took up the spare tire well (4.5 gallons) though it lasted thousands of miles. We had a number of emissions control system problems that required service. They were covered under the emissions warranty.

    We considered that a failed experiment. When it came time for a new van, we considered the Transit Diesel. But the 3.5 EcoBoost was a roughly $2,000 upcharge, while the diesel was $5,000. The EcoBoost had over 400 lb ft of torque and towed 5,000 lbs effortlessly. Cost less, weighed less, cheaper to maintain, no downtime for emissions....

    My BIL is a dairy farmer in Ontario. He always bought 3/4 ton diesel pickups as he was regularly towing trailers of 10,000 lbs or so. He has now switched to gas motors. Ditto our neighbor in NH who uses two trucks for plowing and hauling: he’s now running two 2014 Ford F-250 HD’s. Same story: emissions hassles and higher fuel costs.

    In Europe, tax policies favor diesels so many cars had them. Now that they have tightened emissions, oil costs are down, and direct injection gas engines are available, I suspect that’s changing.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 03-15-19 at 12:47 AM.
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  3. #1228
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    In New England, even a gas engine is going to outlive the body of the truck. There is little to no benefit of going diesel unless you plan on throwing a tune in it to get huge power, but that has a lot of downsides as well. Diesels used to be simple and reliable but they've become very complicated, expensive to buy and fix. There are few situations that require a diesel over a newer modern gasser. My opinion, yours may vary.

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  4. #1229
    Expert Agitator GearHd6's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    But but..., I can't roll coal in my deleted diesel that I just voided the warranty on!!

    I went through this debate in my mind the end of 2018 when I was looking for a new HD truck. I opted for the gas because of my use and didn't want to deal with the headaches of the new emissions diesels. People can deny emissions problems all they want but hang out in the RV and truck forums and the stories of problems and ruined camping trips are everywhere.

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  5. #1230

    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Cliff Notes: Unless you are towing heavy loads for high miles, not worth it.

    We had two Chevrolet Cruze turbodiesels in our fleet, plus a Cruze Eco, the identical car with a 1.4l gas turbo. We bought the different versions so we could compare operating costs Head-to-Head. They were fleet cars so we kept maintenance and fuel logs.

    The TD’s had a 2l turbodiesel made by VM Motori, who also makes the V6 TD used by Jeep and others. They did not pull the bullshit VAG did and added DEF to pass emissions. (The new Cruze Diesel has a 1.6L TD)

    The TD’s cost $3,000 more. In 0-60 acceleration they were exactly the same as the gas car. They got better mpg than the gas car, but only enough to cover the higher cost of diesel fuel and DEF. The biggest advantage was highway mpg, which could top 50mpg. Second was long range: I drove from Peobody to Philadelphia to Laurel, MD and stopped in NJ in sight of N.Y. for fuel: 707 miles and I still had 2.5 gallons left (diesel is much cheaper in NJ). We started them as low as -12 F with no problems.

    The disadvantages were very long warmup in cold weather: they had an auxiliary electric cabin heater. The DEF tank took up the spare tire well (4.5 gallons) though it lasted thousands of miles. We had a number of emissions control system problems that required service. They were covered under the emissions warranty.

    We considered that a failed experiment. When it came time for a new van, we considered the Transit Diesel. But the 3.5 EcoBoost was a roughly $2,000 upcharge, while the diesel was $5,000. The EcoBoost had over 400 lb ft of torque and towed 5,000 lbs effortlessly. Cost less, weighed less, cheaper to maintain, no downtime for emissions....

    My BIL is a dairy farmer in Ontario. He always bought 3/4 ton diesel pickups as he was regularly towing trailers of 10,000 lbs or so. He has now switched to gas motors. Ditto our neighbor in NH who uses two trucks for plowing and hauling: he’s now running two 2014 Ford F-250 HD’s. Same story: emissions hassles and higher fuel costs.

    In Europe, tax policies favor diesels so many cars had them. Now that they have tightened emissions, oil costs are down, and direct injection gas engines are available, I suspect that’s changing.
    A guy I know loves diesels, had one of his trucks rot out and ended up buying another older truck because the emissions hassles aren't worth it on the newer ones.

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  6. #1231
    TWINS! xrocket21's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    For me, a 3/4 ton wouldnt work well. the roads are so friggen bad, my commute to work is crazy. I see frost heaves and dont even slow down. Go faster itll smooth out some! Seriously, id have to go so much slower in a 3/4 ton truck, or get bounced off the road.

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  7. #1232
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Personal opinion - I drive an older diesel without the emissions crap of the newer versions only because I like the way the diesel drives better than the way an equivalent gas motor truck drives. I like torque. Yes some of the newer gas motor vehicles have torque but it doesn't feel the same. Would I buy a new diesel truck, hell no. Maintenance issues/costs/longevity are just not on par with the modern gas offerings. I'm still not a fan of how gas trucks rev to the moon when trying to accelerate however the trade offs between diesel and gas are great enough now that the gas motor would be the way to go for my uses.

    A vehicle I wish someone would build would be a regular cab, short bed, 2WD, manual transmission, 4 wheel independent suspension pickup. A modern El Camino with modern suspension/drive train. The Australian Holden Ute SS would be pretty close other than the aesthetics of that particular vehicle.

    Something like this would be awesome https://i.pinimg.com/474x/c1/28/8f/c...a6393ba0e2.jpg

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    Last edited by tls25rs; 03-15-19 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #1233
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    I'm still not a fan of how gas trucks rev to the moon when trying to accelerate however the trade offs between diesel and gas are great enough now that the gas motor would be the way to go for my uses.
    The 7.3l in the new super duty is going back to push rods and 2 valves per cylinder. Considering it should have more torque than the 6.2l I suspect it's a stump puller that doesn't like to be revved.

    I'd bet the powerband is similar to the pre-emission diesels...

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  9. #1234
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I came across a Chevy Avalanche. Seemed like something in between a ridgline and a 150? What are these things? Never seen one before. I thought it was ridgeline at first.

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  10. #1235
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    A Chevy Avalanche is a Chevy 1500 but with a “lifestyle” type body.

    Basically, if Guy Fieri was reincarnated as a truck, he would be an Avalanche.

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  11. #1236
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    The Avalanche is a Suburban minus the rear roof and 3rd row seats, and with a partition between the rear seats and the cargo area. The "bed" and cab are one big piece, so it flexes much less than a pickup and has a bit more refined ride and handling. I'm guessing the exaggerated C-pillars are necessary to stiffen the body.

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  12. #1237
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Ford had a similar experiment based on the Explorer. It was called the Sport Trac and sold off and on from 2001-2010. 4WD was optional.

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  13. #1238
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    A Chevy Avalanche is a Chevy 1500 but with a “lifestyle” type body.

    Basically, if Guy Fieri was reincarnated as a truck, he would be an Avalanche.
    I’m not gonna lie. I kinda want one now

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  14. #1239
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I've always been told the Avalanche had much softer suspension than the 1500. Thus payload was way down compared to the equivalent 1500. But ride was better.
    Kind of the same drill with the 5-point setup on the newer RAM 1500's; sacrifice payload for ride.

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  15. #1240
    Posting Freak caddydaddy's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    I’m not gonna lie. I kinda want one now
    I always wanted the Cadillac version, the Escalade EXT.

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  16. #1241
    Member Zolden's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Bombed around Jersey with my buddy in the movie car industry in his Ford Raptor yesterday running odd jobs (14mpg):

    Let's talk trucks-img_1212-jpg

    Then I had a Sierra 1500 most of the day today. I guess I came to the conclusion that any recent (2015/6) generation or forward gas truck is pretty badass as most here have said. And I should probably get one. I will say though, 380 other miles run today at 34 mpg is pretty nice in my weak Honda....

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  17. #1242
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    I’m not gonna lie. I kinda want one now
    I ran a 2004 Avalanche for about two years. The frame finally snapped due to rust, which is something you have to be very careful of in the 2000's Chevies (or really any brand of that era). The ride is definitely softer than a 1500, but so is its capabilities. I carried 2000# in it once, and it bottomed that thing out, whereas I carry that in the Tundra and it still has suspension left. The Avy drove and rode really nice though, I looked to find the Z71 with tow package to get the 3.73 gearing. The 4spd transmission sucks, but newer versions have the 6 spd. Also, newer versions(07 and on) have coil over suspension instead of the torsion bars, which is much betterer. The holy grail of the Avy is the '07 model year IF you can get the 6.0 liter. DO NOT buy an '07 with the 5.3, too many had huge issues with the cylinder deactivation system and the engines die early. If you really want to go nuts, get the 2500 version with the 8.1. You will be on first name basis with the local gas station attendant.
    The bed configuration is pretty cool. You have the two side tool boxes and then the bed cap, which is for the most part water proof. You can remove the rear window (there's actually a spot to store it behind the rear seat) and you can lay the rear seats down to have an 8' bed for plywood or whatever. I think they are a good idea for versatility, I just got a poorly kept but well masked rusty specimen.

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  18. #1243
    Lifer
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Just ordered a set of the LTX tires for my '18 1500. Holy shit are truck tires expensive.

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  19. #1244
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by sveesix View Post
    Just ordered a set of the LTX tires for my '18 1500. Holy shit are truck tires expensive.
    What is your threshold for expensive? Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires for my wife's Armada (275/60R20) are $230ish a piece. They wear like iron, have excellent winter capabilities for a non snow tire, and are worth the cost of entry.

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  20. #1245
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post

    Wonder if there's any value in a pickup + cap with the bed made up to camp in + that small enclosed?!
    My brother-in-law does that to great effect. He built a slide in bed/storage solution for the bed of his truck for extended powder ski trips. But using it for the track with a trailer would also work quite nicely.

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  21. #1246
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    I have to say I don't really get the purpose of a van over a small class C RV.

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    Last edited by loudbeard; Yesterday at 09:25 AM.
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  22. #1247
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    I have to say I don't really get the purpose of a van over a small class C RV.
    Cost of entry, cost of maint/ownership, easy of storage, range of tasks it's suited for?

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  23. #1248
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Class Cs aren't small. Our class B does everything a C can, but drives like a van. It also parks like one.

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  24. #1249
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    What is your threshold for expensive? Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires for my wife's Armada (275/60R20) are $230ish a piece. They wear like iron, have excellent winter capabilities for a non snow tire, and are worth the cost of entry.
    I put Geolander G015's on our Armada about 30k miles ago and they have been great. Those big 20's are pricey for sure.

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  25. #1250
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk trucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Cost of entry, cost of maint/ownership, easy of storage, range of tasks it's suited for?
    Cost of entry is very similar, cost of maint/ownership should also be similar as many of them are built on the same platform, ease of storage gets a mild nudge, range of tasks looks like large overlap with the exception of the extreme ends of the spectrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Our class B does everything a C can
    That's not true.

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