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Tipping at Restaurants

  1. #26
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants


    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    So if tipping was eliminated, what would be a fair increase in food prices to pay the staff to have a living wage? 25% 30% ?
    The market would figure that out. It'll be a combination of competition versus what people are willing to pay. For example, just because Walmart is raising wages, that doesn't mean they can just raise prices to compensate. Then business that already pay the higher wages will steal customers. Think Costco. If Walmart started raising prices, why wouldn't people just turn to Costco and Amazon?

    In the case of abolishing tipping, the industry as a whole would need to adjust and I think it would mostly come down to competition.

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  2. #27
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    question, do you guys tip in cash, or add it to the credit card charge ?

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  3. #28
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    I prefer to tip in cash, but I don't generally carry much, so it gets put on the card.

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  4. #29
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    I always figured RandyO was the kind of guy to leave a tip of $0, write "taxation is theft" in its place, and then leave a cash gift for the server instead.

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  5. #30

    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    If you want to start a movement against tipping, just start calling it Optional Paycheck Subsidy Tax and let that spread.

    Tipping is a ridiculous (mostly) American custom, which can be picked apart by logic left and right. If it really relied on good service (whatever happened to open market) of the server (why is it my job to judge a server, shouldn't the business hire good ones?) then things like price of the meal, having boobs, what the kitchen does (server has no control over that) etc shouldn't be an issue that is reflected in the tipping amount.

    With that said, I always tip ~20% due to the social obligation.

    Fun fact: If the server ends up making below minimum wage after tips are accounted for, restaurant is responsible for paying out at least a minimum wage. Whether that reflects poorly on the server or whether the restaurants ever honor that is a different discussion. Point is, servers are legally protected to at least making a "living" minimal wage, so you're never responsible for a person having $0 paycheck in the end.

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 01-06-19 at 04:03 PM.

  6. #31
    Senior Member MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    With profit margins 3 to 5% I would think most restaurants would go out of business if they had to pay a living wage to staff. And minimum wage is not a liv ing wage.

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  7. #32

    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    With profit margins 3 to 5% I would think most restaurants would go out of business if they had to pay a living wage to staff. And minimum wage is not a liv ing wage.
    "Most" is arguable. A few? Sure? Many? Maybe. With those few/many gone existing others will see a spike in business. That's also a bad business model if your survival depends on your customers kindness. Keep in mind nobody HAS to pay the tip. If there was a nation wide campaign against the tipping "tax" and public opinion changed on the matter the same restaurants would go under?

    At this rate a single tween could cause the entire restaurant industry to go under tomorrow.

    Also whatever happened with 20% being the essential norm now a days? 20% used to be for excellent service and 10% base. Now you're a cheapskate for doing anything less than 20%.

    Minimum wage is another discussion entirely (and I agree) but its certainly not a problem that a customer has to face when paying his bill.

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 01-06-19 at 04:51 PM.

  8. #33
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    Tipping is a ridiculous (mostly) American custom
    So says someone who has never relied on them for a living. Servers in the countries I have traveled in (especially European countries) pay servers a decent wage so tips are not as relied on.

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  9. #34
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    20% used to be for excellent service and 10% base. Now you're a cheapskate for doing anything less than 20%.
    wasn't that long ago either
    and if you were a big group, they added 15% to the bill in leu of a tip

    20% seems to have started about the same time as talk of $15 min wage..... but no one is talking about raising minimum SS benefits to $2580/mo... don't old people deserve the same "living wage income"

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  10. #35
    Lifer
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    When you see people talk about how little a tipped person can make due to their special, lower minimum wage, I wonder if a lot of people realize they're still technically supposed to be paid the regular minimum wage by their employer. The employer can lower the amount of money they pay out if the employee receives that much or more in tips. In other words, a tipped person isn't supposed to ever walk out the door at the end of an empty shift with only $3.75/hr in their pocket. If they got $20 in tips that hour, then the employer is allowed to pay out the very low hourly rate.

    I generally tip 20%. I have pretty low standards, so it's going to take a lot for me to tip lower. The 'worst' is usually I just round down instead of up. I can't think of the last time I ever saw service that could warrant zero, or even <10%. I also hate the idea of tipping, and would love to see it all go away. Just pay 'em like any other employee. And I'm suspicious of anyone who seems to 'have to' tip lower even remotely often.

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  11. #36
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    When you see people talk about how little a tipped person can make due to their special, lower minimum wage, I wonder if a lot of people realize they're still technically supposed to be paid the regular minimum wage by their employer. The employer can lower the amount of money they pay out if the employee receives that much or more in tips. In other words, a tipped person isn't supposed to ever walk out the door at the end of an empty shift with only $3.75/hr in their pocket. If they got $20 in tips that hour, then the employer is allowed to pay out the very low hourly rate.

    .
    I wonder how many places actually do that though....

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  12. #37
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    I wonder how many places actually do that though....
    I figure not many. But assuming I'm correct in my understanding of the law, it starts with stopping the 'tipped employees only get paid $3.75/hr' as if that's all the employer is supposed to be doing.

    Unfortunately, many tipped people aren't in a place to go toe-to-toe with an employer over labor law violations. Especially if the tipped person doesn't claim any of the tips on their taxes, so they officially never happened in the eyes of the government.

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  13. #38

    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonk! View Post
    So says someone who has never relied on them for a living. Servers in the countries I have traveled in (especially European countries) pay servers a decent wage so tips are not as relied on.
    What do you know about me? I've worked menial jobs for minimum wage back in the day. I still have vivid memories of amusement when my friends GF would complain about her "bad" $100+ tax free tip night of a few hours of (granted) busy work while for me while my paycheck after taxes for 40 hours of work would be less than $200.

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    I figure not many. But assuming I'm correct in my understanding of the law, it starts with stopping the 'tipped employees only get paid $3.75/hr' as if that's all the employer is supposed to be doing.

    Unfortunately, many tipped people aren't in a place to go toe-to-toe with an employer over labor law violations. Especially if the tipped person doesn't claim any of the tips on their taxes, so they officially never happened in the eyes of the government.
    Exactly. Legally waiters make at least minimum wage. If they end up making more due to gratuity/subsidy of customers the restaurant essentially takes salary back to lower allowed rate.



    To make this even more fun lets add some variables that effect how much money the waitress keeps but that don't affect your tip %:

    • Does the restaurant force employees to claim your tips and then the waitress/waiter gets taxed on them or not?
    • Is the tipping going into the general pot that gets split in the end of the shift or not?
    • Is the restaurant very successful or barely scraping by?
    • Is the tipping calculated before tax or after?
    • Are we encouraging people commuting tax evasion and not contributing their fair share of tax revenue with the tipping system that's in place now?
    • If the tip is on the credit card are you obligated to tip more because now the tip will definitely be further taxed by the government and claimed?

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 01-06-19 at 06:41 PM.

  14. #39

    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Agree or disagree this is relevant to the discussion

    Adam ruins everything - Tipping

    YouTube


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  15. #40
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    this is a point of contention for me. we tend to go to the same places over and over (usually local) so i tend to tip higher than i normally would since typically a drink lands on my table without me even ordering it.
    i think servers should be paid minimum wage but they will all tell you that they would lose money. cash tips dont get reported, if you think they do then youre crazy. CC tips they cant hide and therefor have to pay tax on it as income...as they should.
    i dont think that i should be responsible for supplementing their income. the employer should. if you were so concerned about peoples income then why dont you tip fast food employees? chances are they do more than your average waitstaff. so why not tip everyone you interact with?
    the fact that its become some standard to tip 20% is ridiculous. the premise of tipping is for quality of service. if i have to ask for refills, silverware, condiments etc...you suck at your job. why should you get 20%? waitstaff are ordertakers, and yet we tip them. is any of that making it to the actual workers like the kitchen?
    my wife (as a former bartender and waitress) wont look at what i tip. i constantly have to watch that she doesnt over tip

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  16. #41
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    this is a point of contention for me. we tend to go to the same places over and over (usually local) so i tend to tip higher than i normally would since typically a drink lands on my table without me even ordering it.
    i think servers should be paid minimum wage but they will all tell you that they would lose money. cash tips dont get reported, if you think they do then youre crazy. CC tips they cant hide and therefor have to pay tax on it as income...as they should.
    i dont think that i should be responsible for supplementing their income. the employer should. if you were so concerned about peoples income then why dont you tip fast food employees? chances are they do more than your average waitstaff. so why not tip everyone you interact with?
    the fact that its become some standard to tip 20% is ridiculous. the premise of tipping is for quality of service. if i have to ask for refills, silverware, condiments etc...you suck at your job. why should you get 20%? waitstaff are ordertakers, and yet we tip them. is any of that making it to the actual workers like the kitchen?
    my wife (as a former bartender and waitress) wont look at what i tip. i constantly have to watch that she doesnt over tip
    Cooking is hard work. So is serving and bartending, bussing and food running. Sounds like you have an easily accessible resource to actually know what you're talking about yet you've already made up your mind.

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  17. #42
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    I've never heard of someone making minimum wage per pay period in restaurants, besides maybe dishwashers. If there was then no one would stay, restaurant work and hours are too much for minimum wage. It's calculated by the computer system in larger restaurants (Micros, etc) and for the servers it tracks their tips and you have to enter how much cash you took. Usually they don't let you enter less than 10-15%. Smaller places, well they don't want to be audited either.

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  18. #43
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    once tipping became a forgone conclusion then there is no incentive to try and earn the tip. tipping is supposed to be for better than normal service.
    employers should pay higher wages and tipping should be eliminated.
    waitstaff has to claim CC tips, and as you said, only 10% of cash. well if theyre getting cash tips at 20% then theyre only claiming half of it.
    for the record, ive delivered pizzas at a few places. i claimed my CC tips and rounded up to the next $10. most of my tips were cash. id claim $70 but have $200 cash in my pocket.
    my wife will over tip (25%+) for mediocre or even bad service. i cant tolerate that.
    dont even get me started on tipping a bartender.

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    Last edited by SVRACER01; 01-06-19 at 07:58 PM.
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  19. #44
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    Agree or disagree this is relevant to the discussion

    Adam ruins everything - Tipping

    YouTube

    That dude and his show are so annoying

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  20. #45
    Lifer
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonk! View Post
    So says someone who has never relied on them for a living. Servers in the countries I have traveled in (especially European countries) pay servers a decent wage so tips are not as relied on.
    True but a lot of places add in a service charge to cover the costs and your not always aware before hand. Usually 10% is the normal but it can go as high as 20 in places. Changes the dynamics of going out a bit.
    Another thing to consider is that what tip is given to the servers is generally taken by the company and does not go to staff. If your going to leave a tip, however small, especially on a credit card, ask the server if they will get it. Mostly they wont. Even cash can and is taken by the company if they are aware of it.

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  21. #46
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    once tipping became a forgone conclusion then there is no incentive to try and earn the tip. tipping is supposed to be for better than normal service.
    employers should pay higher wages and tipping should be eliminated.
    waitstaff has to claim CC tips, and as you said, only 10% of cash. well if theyre getting cash tips at 20% then theyre only claiming half of it.
    for the record, ive delivered pizzas at a few places. i claimed my CC tips and rounded up to the next $10. most of my tips were cash. id claim $70 but have $200 cash in my pocket.
    my wife will over tip (25%+) for mediocre or even bad service. i cant tolerate that.
    dont even get me started on tipping a bartender.
    It's coming out of your pocket one way or another. If the employer pays the server a real wage then food and drink prices go up. If they were to hire real employees rather than the current system then you would have less of them and the quality of service would go down. I don't think that a salaried employee would give worse service because they aren't relying on tips, I am saying that less hands means less service. As it stands a server's income is built around the "customary" tipping system. Therefore, when you say "tipping is supposed to be for better than normal service" you're just wrong. Here's what else you're wrong about:

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01
    this is a point of contention for me. we tend to go to the same places over and over (usually local) so i tend to tip higher than i normally would since typically a drink lands on my table without me even ordering it.
    i think servers should be paid minimum wage but they will all tell you that they would lose money. cash tips dont get reported, if you think they do then youre crazy. CC tips they cant hide and therefor have to pay tax on it as income...as they should.
    i dont think that i should be responsible for supplementing their income. the employer should. if you were so concerned about peoples income then why dont you tip fast food employees? chances are they do more than your average waitstaff. so why not tip everyone you interact with?
    the fact that its become some standard to tip 20% is ridiculous. the premise of tipping is for quality of service. if i have to ask for refills, silverware, condiments etc...you suck at your job. why should you get 20%? waitstaff are ordertakers, and yet we tip them. is any of that making it to the actual workers like the kitchen?
    my wife (as a former bartender and waitress) wont look at what i tip. i constantly have to watch that she doesnt over tip

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  22. #47

    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    More fuel to the fire

    Lets even assume that the survey blatantly and incorrectly looks over the fact that hourly wages should be ~$3hr + tips.

    That still leaves an average of ~$22 an hour or ~$44k a year equivalent.

    That still puts them on average as the highest starting pay earners in the non management restaurant staff, higher then the cooks.

    Tipping at Restaurants-2023423500-jpg

    Personally I'd much rather be tipping the cook after eating a damn good meal and he can share it with the waiters as he pleases. I come to the restaurant for the food, he makes the food that I didn't want to make. I've never left the restaurant and left "Man that service was amazing" to tell my friends, but you always say "the food XX was delicious" or "go to XXX place because the food is good"

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  23. #48
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    This thread is great because, in case there was any doubt before, now we know who the cunts are.

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  24. #49
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    This thread is great because, in case there was any doubt before, now we know who the cunts are.
    Did it really take this thread for you to know?

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  25. #50
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    Re: Tipping at Restaurants

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    The market would figure that out. It'll be a combination of competition versus what people are willing to pay. For example, just because Walmart is raising wages, that doesn't mean they can just raise prices to compensate. Then business that already pay the higher wages will steal customers. Think Costco. If Walmart started raising prices, why wouldn't people just turn to Costco and Amazon?

    In the case of abolishing tipping, the industry as a whole would need to adjust and I think it would mostly come down to competition.
    Absolutely correct. So many people don't understand this. The old argument about a burger cost going up if $15 became minimum wage just doesn't hold water. It might go up a tiny amount, but the price of a burger is not based on a percentage of overhead. It is based on what the market can bear. That's why a big mac meal costs $5 in Taunton and $8.50 at the 128 rest stop.

    If tipping was eliminated (and I don't think it should be) and servers were paid a living wage, that has little bearing on the price of food. The burden would be on the business owner tightening their belt (or closing up shop). People will pay what people will pay. putting prices up too much will just cuase lost business. Also, eliminating tipping would take years to take hold. People (myself included) would still tip.

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